Taki vs Ayane

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Taki has a powerful arsenal of ninpo's that have less execution time than Ayane.

Also, she has more experience than Ayane on the long run. Wether fighting demons is impressive or not. She's demonstrated more formibidality with an edged weapon compared Ayane.

Also, Taki does have a teleport in one of her win quotes.

She has more experience. Unfortunately for Taki, Ayane has actually taken down multiple people with more experience than herself.

I popped in Soul Caliber and played a couple of rounds and saw the teleport. You neglected to mention one thing about it though. She has to do hand signs and a pose before she can teleport. It won't help her in battle. Ayane's teleport will. Now that I have actually confirmed Taki's ineffective teleport, Ayane has yet ANOTHER advantage.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
But, Taki is not Kasumi and she only defeated her once. Also, just a moment ago you claimed taki has done nothing and then post this: [B]"Kasumi can do most anything Taki can do AND on a higher level."

Are you aware of Taki's feats? [/B]

I am well aware of Taki's abilities. She's one of my favorites and most used from Soul Caliber.

Now to assess this fight formally for argument.

Strength: This goes to Ayane. Leaping through chasms and leaping from skyscrapers implies immense leg strength.

Speed: About equal. If we count teleporting in speed, Ayane takes this as well.

Durability: Ayane. Take's area leveling head on, falls off buildings, punched several feet in the air even when she was younger.

Weapons: Taki is more skilled with her short blades.

Ninpo: Taki's is faster. Ayane's is stronger.

Miscellanious: Ayane's teleport obviously outshines Taki's. She actually faced down opponents with weapons/superior ninpo. Taki's silver armor looks cooler.

Now, Taki will put up a decent fight. The problem for Taki is that Ayane has actually defeated opponents who can do what she does. Her weapons aren't really an advantage as Ayane has overcome that before AFTER fighting two other people higher or at Taki's level. Ayane has also defeated an opponent with nigh-instantaneous ninpo that is far stronger than Taki's. She's taken down someone who is faster and stronger than Taki. I'll stop for now.

You all are forgetting that Ayane has shown that she can handle what Taki has to offer as an opponent. Taki has not shown us she capable of the reverse. In fact, Taki has one clear cut advantage over Ayane. It's rediculous to give her a win because of that.

Ayane gets underrated at the strangest times.

1. Taki does not have to make hand signs to teleport. This is similar bs that is "Hayabusa needs to make hand signals before he teleports."

Taki: (After winning) "Pitiful." *teleports* No hand signals there.

Ryu: (After winning with Kasumi in tag) "It is done!" *teleports* No hand signals there.

2. Taki can fall from skycrapers. She fell from the top of a tall pillar in the church in SCII before battling Mitsurugi. This does not prove one's durability, by the way, as Ayane and Taki are both extremely fast and light ninjas. They also know how to absorb the shock from the fall.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Ayane gets underrated at the strangest times.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
1. Taki does not have to make hand signs to teleport. This is similar bs that is "Hayabusa needs to make hand signals before he teleports."

Taki: (After winning) "Pitiful." *teleports* No hand signals there.

Ryu: (After winning with Kasumi in tag) "It is done!" *teleports* No hand signals there.

2. Taki can fall from skycrapers. She fell from the top of a tall pillar in the church in SCII before battling Mitsurugi. This does not prove one's durability, by the way, as Ayane and Taki are both extremely fast and light ninjas. They also know how to absorb the shock from the fall.
I'd say in general.

2. No, that pillar was not nearly as high as the Tri Tower. That's obvious. It doesn't matter how light they are. We don't really have proof that they were trained to fall from heights. We do know that Ayane can fall unharmed though. It is a durability, but not neccesarily an invulnerability feat. Musculature is also part of durability.

I'm curious. Do you think Taki could also defeat Bison if teamed with Kasumi?

Originally posted by StyleTime
We already established the fact that Hayabusa doesn't need hand signs to do his defensive teleport. I played with Taki again just to check. She doesn't even teleport when she says "Pitiful". She just leaps off.

2. No, that pillar was not nearly as high as the Tri Tower. That's obvious. It doesn't matter how light they are. We don't really have proof that they were trained to fall from heights. We do know that Ayane can fall unharmed though. It is a durability, but not neccesarily an invulnerability feat. Musculature is also part of durability.

I'm curious. Do you think Taki could also defeat Bison if teamed with Kasumi?

2. Ayane and Hayate did not jump from the top of the towers to the bottom, if I'm not mistaken. They landed on the bridge connecting them. Taki was barely visible from Mitsurugi's perspective before they fought, and she traveled all the way to him in one jump. What does being armed have to do with falling from heights? Nothing, and as I proved just a while ago, falling from heights for ninjas does not prove durability, at all, since they are specifically trained to fall from heights without getting hurt. If Ayane is as duraable as you make her out to be, then why does she get cut by bullets? Right, it's because she can't take a village busting fireball (which was only done in Hayabusa's storymode by the way). Stop saying bs such as "Ayane took a land busting blast" because she didn't. Nowhere does it show her taking an attack of that magnitude, and the place where she fought Omega was not on a higher level before or after Genra burned the place. The snow melted and the place was on fire, that's it. Ayane proceeded to fight him then.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm curious. Do you think Taki could also defeat Bison if teamed with Kasumi?

Edit: Damn...I just watched Ayane's DOA4 story mode and Alpha-152 is even more powerful than I initially thought. Just the sheer amount of force from her/it wrecks and destroys everything around her.

Wanted to make an edit..

I misread "unharmed", thinking it was "unarmed". My bad StyleTime.

They did not jump from the top of the skyscrapper, but it was still really ****ing high.

Ayane better show some fancy skills with the light staff. Kick ass weapon, god damn it.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Yes, those are a large reason why I give Taki a few wins on Ayane.

She has more experience. Unfortunately for Taki, Ayane has actually taken down multiple people with more experience than herself

Here we go, why are you always attributing her opponents skill sets to Ayane? She doesn't get her opponents experience from beating them, this isn't Highlander.

Originally posted by StyleTime

I popped in Soul Caliber and played a couple of rounds and saw the teleport. You neglected to mention one thing about it though. She has to do hand signs and a pose before she can teleport. It won't help her in battle. Ayane's teleport will. Now that I have actually confirmed Taki's ineffective teleport, Ayane has yet ANOTHER advantage.

The only reason I mentioned teleport was because you claimed she did not have one.

Originally posted by StyleTime

I'm pretty sure I simply asked what has she actually done to say she defeats Ayane. Kasumi isn't Taki, but that's partially my point. Kasumi's faster, stronger, can teleport, and in general is more suited to fight Ayane, yet Ayane managed to overcome her still.

Here we go again, Styletime. Your using A>B>C logic to substantiate Ayane's victory. Kasumi's stats are irrelevant to ayane's, why must you always resort to this illogical stand point in debates?

Originally posted by StyleTime

I am well aware of Taki's abilities. She's one of my favorites and most used from Soul Caliber.

Then why did you ask for her feats?

Originally posted by StyleTime

Strength: This goes to Ayane. Leaping through chasms and leaping from skyscrapers implies immense leg strength.

Speed: About equal. If we count teleporting in speed, Ayane takes this as well.

Durability: Ayane. Take's area leveling head on, falls off buildings, punched several feet in the air even when she was younger.

Weapons: Taki is more skilled with her short blades.

Ninpo: Taki's is faster. Ayane's is stronger.

Miscellanious: Ayane's teleport obviously outshines Taki's. She actually faced down opponents with weapons/superior ninpo. Taki's silver armor looks cooler.

Strength: Leg power is not overall strength my dude.

Durability: Here we go again, that's a game mechanic

Speed: I agree

Ninpo: Ayane's ninpo's are worthless in a straight up fight

Originally posted by StyleTime

Miscellanious: Ayane's teleport obviously outshines Taki's. She actually faced down opponents with weapons/superior ninpo. Taki's silver armor looks cooler.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Now, Taki will put up a decent fight. The problem for Taki is that Ayane has actually defeated opponents who can do what she does. Her weapons aren't really an advantage as Ayane has overcome that before AFTER fighting two other people higher or at Taki's level. Ayane has also defeated an opponent with nigh-instantaneous ninpo that is far stronger than Taki's. She's taken down someone who is faster and stronger than Taki. I'll stop for now.

Originally posted by StyleTime

You all are forgetting that Ayane has [b]shown that she can handle what Taki has to offer as an opponent. Taki has not shown us she capable of the reverse. In fact, Taki has one clear cut advantage over Ayane. It's rediculous to give her a win because of that.[/B]

Originally posted by StyleTime

Ayane gets underrated at the strangest times.

He wasn't mentioning gameplay mechanics when he supported Ayane's durability. He was talking about the fire blast Genra used right before the 2 of them fought. In DOA4 there is a cutscene where Ayane & Hayate jump off from a great height and land unharmed in a platform below. And Ayane got punched several feet off the air by Raidou before he crippled Hayate and stole his Torn Sky Blast.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
He wasn't mentioning gameplay mechanics when he supported Ayane's durability. He was talking about the fire blast Genra used right before the 2 of them fought. In DOA4 there is a cutscen where Ayane & Hayate jump off from great height and land unharmed in a platform below. And Ayane got punched several feet off the air by Raidou before he crippled Hayate and stole his Torn Sky Blast.

I know those scenes, but he made it seem that Ayane jumped off the entire Tri-Tower when she just dropped on the landing pad.
Also, Ayane was never hit or avoided the blast that leveled Azuchi castle.

True he made it seem like she jumped the entire Tri-Tower, but the height was still really high.

That's not the blast he was talking about. It's the blast Genra uses to level the snowfield they were on.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
True he made it seem like she jumped the entire Tri-Tower, but the height was still really high.

I know it's high, but not the way he made it seem.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime

That's not the blast he was talking about. It's the blast Genra uses to level the snowfield they were on.

YouTube video

What blast hit ayane?

She's standing right before me. Genra burns everything including the area she's standing in.

There wasn't a blast that hit her. The area around her got burned up.

And where do you see ruins of Azuchi castle?

So...wtf happened then? Even the ground her feet are stepping on are burnt. Is she immune to it or wtf?

He just lit the area on fire, he did not blast Ayane.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
So...wtf happened then? Even the ground her feet are stepping on are burnt. Is she immune to it or wtf?

The entire area just went a blaze, She was not hit by anything.

Aye.

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
1. No, she does teleport. It may seem like she did leap off. Fact is she "leaped" then disappeared into thin air, the same exact way Hayabusa and Kasumi leaped and vanished.

2. Ayane and Hayate did not jump from the top of the towers to the bottom, if I'm not mistaken. They landed on the bridge connecting them. Taki was barely visible from Mitsurugi's perspective before they fought, and she traveled all the way to him in one jump. What does being armed have to do with falling from heights? Nothing, and as I proved just a while ago, falling from heights for ninjas does not prove durability, at all, since they are specifically trained to fall from heights without getting hurt. If Ayane is as duraable as you make her out to be, then why does she get cut by bullets? Right, it's because she can't take a village busting fireball (which was only done in Hayabusa's storymode by the way). Stop saying bs such as "Ayane took a land busting blast" because she didn't. Nowhere does it show her taking an attack of that magnitude, and the place where she fought Omega was not on a higher level before or after Genra burned the place. The snow melted and the place was on fire, that's it. Ayane proceeded to fight him then.
I don't see why not really. Taki's spells added with her speed and Kasumi's could easily kill Bison in a few seconds at most. They catch him off-gaurd at any instant and he's chopped bison for dinner.

[b]Edit: Damn...I just watched Ayane's DOA4 story mode and Alpha-152 is even more powerful than I initially thought. Just the sheer amount of force from her/it wrecks and destroys everything around her. [/B]

Mitsurugi and Taki used conversational voices while they adressed each other. She was clearly nowhere near as high off the place of landing as Ayane was. Do you think if Alpha-152 jumped out and just said "'Sup" that Ayane would hear it?

You didn't prove anything about it. The fact is, the ninja were never once depicted as training to fall from those heights. The fact is that Ayane did fall from that height. You are confusing durability with invulverability. Spiderman and Wolverine also have enhanced durability, yet they can still be wounded from bullets. Musculature is also part of durability and Ayane has demonstrated more than Taki.

As for the landscpape, that was clearly a mountain my friend. You can play on the level and see that. Genra incinerated all of it including where Ayane was. Either she is now resistant to fire/heat or she took a blast. Your call.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Here we go, why are you always attributing her opponents skill sets to Ayane? She doesn't get her opponents experience from beating them, this isn't Highlander.

The only reason I mentioned teleport was because you claimed she did not have one.

Here we go again, Styletime. Your using A>B>C logic to substantiate Ayane's victory. Kasumi's stats are irrelevant to ayane's, why must you always resort to this illogical stand point in debates?

Then why did you ask for her feats?

Strength: Leg power is not overall strength my dude.

Durability: Here we go again, that's a game mechanic

Speed: I agree

Ninpo: Ayane's ninpo's are worthless in a straight up fight

Ok.

Here we go again Sandai. The character you're defending has no win record, so you downplay the opponent's victories. It's not like I simply stated "Ayane beats Kasumi sho she wins". I added her victories to the fact that Ayane holds the most advantages in this fight to say she wins. Those fights just help show that Ayane can deal with what Taki is bringing to the table. Stop acting like it was the center of my argument.

I asked for feats that said she can beat Ayane. I'm still getting none.

Strength: Fair enough. I didn't bring all of Ayane's abilities up because I don't think she needs them, but Ayane is stronger all around. If you recall, Ayane is able to throw her kunai through concrete/brick/etc walls in Ninja Gaiden. Considering the fact that she always throws it directly in front of Hayabusa without hitting him, she also has insane accuracy. She's stronger than Taki.

Durability: All of those happened in cutscenes my friend.

Speed: Settled.

Ninpo: Never claimed otherwise. Just stating what they were.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
So, what does facing whoever have to do with Ayane's Skill sets?

A>B>C logic as always

A>B>C logic again

Stop whining mane, not one person has underrated her in this thread.

You only moan about this when your character has no counter for it.

Same.

Yes, multiple people have. You're accusing me of whining? Do you even realize you just revived multiple threads containing Ayane JUST so you could express your newfound disdain for her?

Now to sum up everything because quoting multiple posts is quite tedious.

Now, Ayane is stronger, more durable, can teleport, has ranged weapons, and more relevant experience. Taki is virtually just relying on her weapons here. Ayane, unfortunatly for the older kunoichi, has actually proven she is capable of handling what Taki has to offer. People are forgetting that Taki hasn't actually proven that she can take down opponents on Ayane's level. Ayane has proved the opposite. In combination with most other advantages going to Ayane, Ayane should take the majority.

Since when did KMC stop giving the victory to the person with the most advantages? 🤨