Originally posted by UshgarakCall me stupid, but where is there an actual lie? It's misleading, especially to non gamers who buy the stuff for their children. I wouldn't say it's a lie in the absolute sense. If they were going at that angle, wouldn't wii look the best? It would seem like a self-defeating tactic.
Not when he said that there were no lies in the price comparison chart.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Call me stupid, but where is there an actual lie? It's misleading, especially to non gamers who buy the stuff for their children. I wouldn't say it's a lie in the absolute sense. If they were going at that angle, wouldn't wii look the best? It would seem like a self-defeating tactic.
The Core System doesn't actually require you to buy those things.
The ad says that you will require them. It is disingenuous to claim that they are doing that in order to compare like for like, because they have deliberately ignored the other Xbox package, which would work out cheaper.
In terms of the unbalanced comparison, that's not really a lie, more an attempt by Sony to palliate the effects of their ridiculous price.
The Wii does look the best value, but that's because it is. I guess they could have said you might need two of them. Dunno why, but then I don't work in marketing.
Originally posted by Victor Von DoomSo it's misleading. I know that. PS3 is expensive, but it costslot to make. I didn't want to argue which is best, because it's off-topic and entirely subjective for each person.
The Core System doesn't actually require you to buy those things.In terms of the unbalanced comparison, that's not really a lie, more an attempt by Sony to palliate the effects of their ridiculous price.
Well, stating things as required when they are not is a lie.
And you know what? Who cares if "that's how advertising is"? Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right"? Yeah, well, neither does two hundred, or two thousand, or two million...and so on.
Draco, I don't know where you came up with your claims that WD is abusing his powers to spam the forum with anti-Sony stuff. So posting articles that shed your precious Sony in a bad light because of things they've done is a bad thing? Well then I think you're better off finding a different forum to post on. People post tons of various articles, and if a large number happen to be negative things about Sony...well, people can only post what exists, and Sony's been doing themselves NO favor here. Blame Sony, not any of us.
And I will ask you once to cut the condescending hostility I've been seeing in your posts in this thread.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When I look at it I see it as, "To have this... this is required" to non-gamers it's very misleading. I think all gamers know you don't need anything but the console though. That's just me however.
Most gamers will realize it's complete BS.
But as you say, non-gamers will not realize it, and that's who that factsheet was likely aimed at.
Draco> All you done in this thread is to adopt the typical behaviour and attitude of any Sony fanboy running loose in the internet. Instead of acknowledge the topic at hand you attack me with accusisations (sp?) of spam. Really, why do you attack the messenger? you know, don't even answer. I don't feel like reading another 10,000 word post from you. Let me clear this for you. I don't make the bad news....Sony does. It's their fault. All I do is provide the information.
Also learn to be on topic. I don't know what the hell is Karl Marx and Communist revolution have anything to do with video games. We're talking about how sony help to put these guys are out business.
I know you're prolly trying to bring balance into the thread by defending Sony. The fact is...there is really nothing for you to defend. You want to see me balance this? Here it goes...
Yes, in the past both Nintendo and MS have sued Lik Sang. They won some and lost some. Sony is the only corporation to sue them 16 times at once over the same issue. I'll give you that Lik Sang were no saints. Still, trying to put them out business and to succeed is a dirty malecious ploy in order for Sony to gouge as much money from their units as possible. The battery problem with Dell have left them short of cash. So they're looking to make up that lost money for those battery replacements Whoah! did I went out balance? I'm sorry..but I can't help it.
As for the chart...everyone in this thread have explained it to you. They pointed out the flaws. You're the one failing to accept it. I don't know what else to tell you.
Oh, one more thing....really, that "honey" nonsense is getting old.
Indeed, I'm pretty sure the purpose of such a "fact" sheet, especially right now, is to influence the parents who will soon enough be forced to buy new consoles for their kids, and want the best one for the best price.
And props to WD for the post up there. Succinct and clear. Pity Draco'll ignore it or twist it.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not when he said that there were no lies in the price comparison chart.
There WEREN'T any lies. That was my point. It was factual yet of course misleading.
Which is the crux of all advertisement.
What sort of advertisements for consumer goods DOESN'T mislead consumers into believing inaccurate or not necessarily true information.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And Draco, WD is not spamming, give that a rest.
In my opinion, he is. He is intentionally attempting to instigate anti-Sony sentiment by posting as many negative articles or information about the corporation or their products as he possibly can.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is a legitimate thread to open and does not even remotely fit the definition of spamming.
It is most certainly legitimate. However everyone, annoyingly, enough misinterpreted the crux of the issue. I proved them wrong...
Originally posted by Ushgarak
If Sony are getting a lot of negative attention right now then they have themselves to blame for it,
Oh yes, I remember. It all started when Sony announced the PS3 was $600 and people got all fussy. It went downhill from there.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
and certainly the point that Sony execs themselves bought from this supplier are grounds for complaint.
Wrong. Absolutely friggin' wrong.
THINK
Why would a corporation intentionally buy it's OWN products at an inflated price with import taxes? It doesn't make sense...UNLESS they purchased the systems for investigating purposes.
Which is what they did. They bought the systems to investigate HOW Lik-Sang modified them to sell them as import goods to European consumers to see HOW they violated the copyright infringement laws.
I can't just accuse someone of copyright infringement and arbitrage if I don't have any evidence, now can I?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It may also be noted that if Sony were simply seeking to stop exports it would be one thihg. But they deliberately used a tactic of starting multiple lawsuits in multiple areas to bankrupt Lik-Sang with legal costs.
Lik-Sang was an illegal company sucking profits from Sony and making them incur costs for import taxes, violating the EU laws of importation, selling systems that weren't regulated and thus void of any warranty to gamers and thusly nullifying their consumer rights over the good, making Sony liable for damages via consumer lawsuits, and disrupting the supply of PSPs/PS3s in Japan and Europe. Not to mention they were inflating the market price of their consoles above the price margin that Sony set. As producer of their own friggin' products, they had EVERY reason to sue the living pants of Lik-Sang.
What you people just cannot grasp for some odd reason, is that Lik-Sang was BAD. They were not good people. They are no different from a thief, or a bank robber or a hacker. The ONLY reason they haven't been shut down by the government or charged with felony charges is because China's bizarre "parallel trade" policy (which flies in the face of UN-sanction importation standards) ALLOWS illegal activity like trafficking, copyright infringement, theft of intellectual property and outright nullification of import taxes in other countries. This is how they've gotten so wealthy with textile goods productions.
And Sony was most certainly not alone. RESEARCH people. Nintendo had FOURTEEN pending lawsuits due in the year 2008 (lawsuits take a VERY long time) because Lik-Sang was violating their piracy laws and selling imported Japanese Gamecubes in Europe. Microsoft had nearly TWENTY lawsuits filed against Lik-Sang, because they used mod-ships in the Xbox to make it region-free thus violating not only their copyright laws but ALSO violating the protection of intellectual properties for countless movie studios whose DVDs were played on the Xbox as the mod-chips allowed gamers to download the movies to their harddrive.
Lik-Sang is the "evil" one. Not Sony. Nor Nintendo. Nor Microsoft.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
This has done more than restrict imports- it has killed the company, and Sony did it intentionally.
Yes. They did. They finally finished them off. If ANY of you had read my arguments, understood the economic foreign trade principles of the issues and properly understood the facts of the article, you would agree with me....
🙁
Originally posted by Grinning Goku
Extremely off-topic but I have the Halo: Combat Evolved Demo on my PC and I need to know what keys to press in order to type information during the multiplayer session in Blood Gulch e.g.HappyGilmor: Blah, blah, blah.
Go find the Halo thread and ask there, don't post off-topic in other threads for no reason.
Originally posted by IceJawSomeone on Lik sang forum speaking his mind.[/B]
Whoever wrote that was obviously some 34 year old loser in his grandmother's garage whose only sense of reality is the small window that displays sunlight for approximately 19 minutes per day....
The guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
FACT: Whatever negatively affects the producer, negatively affects the consumer.
If I have originally have $100 for example.
It costs me $50 to make five products.
I sell the product for $11 each to cover my costs and make a profit.
If some schmo from Hong-Kong takes MY products and sells them for $9 each, I lose money.
I don't have as much money as I used to, so I can't make as many products.
I only make two products instead of five. What happens to the price since they are more scarce? They increase. They're $15 now. Consuemrs now have to spend more money on my products.
Using this VERY simple example, you can see why it negatively affects Sony consumers....
And Sony are greedy f*cking bastards btw (reply to that if you want to, but it won't change my opinion about 'em 😬 )[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by IceJaw
And Draco, calm down 😬[/B]
I'm calm. But I'm just irritated that people here don't use their brains to think something through. NOTHING is ever simple.
Which I guess is partly my fault because I was obviously expecting to much from people here in KMC forums....
Originally posted by Lana
Draco, I don't know where you came up with your claims that WD is abusing his powers to spam the forum with anti-Sony stuff.
Apparently everyone here is wearing deluxe rose-colored glasses.
🙄
Originally posted by Lana
So posting articles that shed your precious Sony in a bad light
Which I have no problem with. As long as they're not taken out of context and followed up with a inflammatory "Sony is just despicable! one-liner...
People won't bother to read the article since ever so much faith is placed in the moderator's authority. Which I've observed. They read HIS words...not the article itself. Which they misinterpret and downright often don't properly understand to begin with.
If he were to just post the article itself WITHOUT the obvious bias and inflammatory language, I wouldn't blink an eye.
The job of the moderator is to remain neutral. Remember, Lana?
Originally posted by Lana
if a large number happen to be negative things about Sony...well, people can only post what exists,
Oh yes of course. The large number of out of context negative Sony articles, many taken from obscure sources, is solely Sony's fault. Sony posted them all here.
🙄
Honey, let's not kid ourselves.
Originally posted by Lana
and Sony's been doing themselves NO favor here. Blame Sony, not any of us.
Well, there goes your credibility. You insinuate your bias as it is. As long as it suits YOUR interests, it's fine.
Originally posted by Lana
And I will ask you once to cut the condescending hostility I've been seeing in your posts in this thread.
And ignore the outright "condescending hostility" from others on this forum. Oh I forgot, as long as they're anti-Sony and their views match yours, you're willing to look the other way.
Come on, Lana. You've been a moderator for, what? Five months. You're record is greased enough as it is...
I've been a mod for a year, thanks, and you know jack-all about my 'record'.
And mods are supposed to be neutral in enforcing rules. We don't have to remain thus in a debate. Learn the difference.
Is anyone else here going around insinuating, implying, and flatout calling people stupid? No, I see one single person doing that, and that is you.
There WEREN'T any lies. That was my point. It was factual yet of course misleading.Which is the crux of all advertisement.
What sort of advertisements for consumer goods DOESN'T mislead consumers into believing inaccurate or not necessarily true information.
Again, as proven earlier in the thread, there was an undeniable lie. Sony saying "This is required" when it actually isn't is a lie, plain and simple. To say it's not is to factually be wrong, cut and dry wrong. They are purposely saying something is true when they know it's not, that is the very definition of lying.
And no, WD isn't spamming. You're opinion is wrong there, again. He posted a topic and gave his opinion about it, that's no more spam than you defending Sony.
Besides, if you read WD's first post you'll see that he didn't even say anything derogatory about Sony. He said "This proves they mean business when they sued anyone about their gadgets" and "This can't sit well with other retailers". The following post is you making silly accusations that WD was "spamming anti PS3 threads" and later going on to say there was some "anti ps3 one-liner" when there wasn't, honey.
Originally posted by Sub_Mariner
You may not know me all well but:Ok, Leave it out Draco.
Lay off Draco, he has a good argument against WD, but because he's a mod you all hump his leg, if Draco wants to f*cking debate, LET HIM.
Damn i hate people like that. 😠
And I hate people who go ahead and jump in to something they don't understand. Humping WD's leg, are we? Hell, I didn't even register the fact that he was a mod 'til today.
Draco does NOT have a good argument. He twists words, exaggerates, and flat out lies, all for the singular purpose of defending actions that have no right to be defended.
Strip away all the past, all the annoyance at the PS3, all the rest of Sony's HORRENDOUS track record, and this isolated case is still a corrupt action. Even if Lik Sang was doing something illegal, what Sony did by suing Lik Sang out of existence is vigilantism, not justice. This should have been a government issue, if the issue at all existed.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Draco> All you done in this thread is to adopt the typical behaviour and attitude of any Sony fanboy running loose in the internet. Instead of acknowledge the topic at hand you attack me with accusisations (sp?) of spam. Really, why do you attack the messenger? you know, don't even answer.
Fanboy? Honey, PLEASE.
Since when do fanboys use actual logic or outright economic information and facts to support their arguments?
What statements here have I posted that would fall under the dialogue of a "fanboy"? I'll answer for you. NONE.
Hell, everyone on this thread was all up in arms...until I calmly, rationally and factually explained why they were misreading the article and outright a dunce about the issue itself.
Than everyone suddenly had nothing to say and started to talk about something else besides the topic, which by the way YOU posted in order to swerve the topic in your favor.
You knew you couldn't match my argument much less argue against it so you decided to continue the anti-Sony sentiment, the very purpose of your post, by posting a out-of-context advertisement. If it were just about the article, you wouldn't have done so and you would have either ceded or continued your argument.
Which you didn't.
And you're the clearly the fanboy here. Let's not kid ourselves here.
Take example, the Superman Returns movie. Someone posted a bad review. You immediately bashed them than you followed up with a warning.
Not abusing your authority, right?
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Instead of acknowledge the topic at hand you attack me with accusisations (sp?) of spam.
Um. Did ya miss the arguments I made about arbitrage ( I know it's a big word...) import taxes and even my "For Dummies" example with bananas.
PLEASE. I have done NOTHING but address the topic.
🙄
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Really, why do you attack the messenger?
No. I consider you "the boy who cried wolf" or the boy who cries fire when it's really the microwave cooking popcorn....
A messenger just delivers the message. Not graffiti it and make it into your own personal spin.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't feel like reading another 10,000 word post from you. Let me clear this for you.
Ah. Yes. This is a common pathetic tactic that a debater uses in a paltry attempt to deflect or invalidate the other debater's argument by saying "it's too long" or "I don't have time." PLEASE. You spend nearly 80% of your life here. You read EVERYTHING.
You can't counter my arguments so you put up a farce stating you "didn't feel like it."
Nice try.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
All I do is provide the information.
And take it out of context. Delibrately put up a misleading headline, post a inaccurate, clearly biased summary of the article followed by the usual anti-Sony dogma....
Curious?
You never seem to post any other articles except articles that you convinently find to bash Sony. Why?
We know why...?
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Also learn to be on topic.
Take your own advise. Tell me this. What the hell does the "fact-sheet" have to do with Sony's lawsuit against Lik-Sang?
Well, gosh, sir. You're the moderator. You must have any idea why.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I don't know what the hell is Karl Marx and Communist revolution have anything to do with video games.
Yeah. Here's a tip. When someone posts a thought UNDERNEATH a quote that's yours, that means it's directly attacking your line of thought for that specific quote.
You for some odd reason thought capitalism had nothing to do with greed and was synonmous with communism....
This is also just a rather paltry tactic to disavow any responsibility you had for this ridiculous sentiment and to save yourself from any embarassment.
Didn't work.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I know you're prolly trying to bring balance into the thread by defending Sony.
Nooooooo.
I'm trying to get the facts straight. Which I've done. Apparently noone here has an ounce of economic knowledge and can't tell the difference between a legitimate business and illegal one who illegally imports goods....
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The fact is...there is really nothing for you to defend.
I'm talking to a 32-year old man who can write a coherent sentence much less tell the basic difference between capitalism and communism.
Of COURSE, you can't see the logic of my defense....
You want to see me balance this? Here it goes...
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes, in the past both Nintendo and MS have sued Lik Sang.
Actually, up to the point of Lik Sang going out business, the were STILL suing Lik-Sang.
Lawsuits are not settled instantly. They take years. Nintendo had 14 pending lawsuits as of 2006. Microsoft had more than 20.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sony is the only corporation to sue them 16 times at once over the same issue.
Wrong. Nintendo filed multiple lawsuits amounting 22 over the mod-ship that would allow piracy in the GameBoy Color.
Microsoft was the same way when they ravaged the X-box's software protection program allowing movie downloads.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'll give you that Lik Sang were no saints.
No. They weren't. But apparently a business that does illegal business in multiple countries is the lesser evil than company trying to stop the illegal business and respect the law.
🙄
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Still, trying to put them out business and to succeed is a dirty malecious ploy
Trying to put an illegal business out of trade is a "dirty ploy"?
I bet cops who put the drug mobs out of trade are just plain dirty too.
🙄
What kind of world do you live in?
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
in order for Sony to gouge as much money from their units as possible.
Wrong. They were trying to save their losses from Lik-Sang's illegal business that negatively affect the gaming industry AND they were responding to the sanctions of the EU Commission of Economic Affairs.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The battery problem with Dell have left them short of cash. So they're looking to make up that lost money for those battery replacements
Dear god.
The lawsuit (remember lawsuits take a LONG time to process) has been in affect since the year 2002. They were supplemented as the years passed. They were ALL pending since then.
What? Sony had a magic crystal ball that predict the disastrous battery recall more than four years ago?
And NEWSFLASH: SONY DIDN'T GET ANY MONEY.
😆
Sony didn't win a dime.
Lik-Sang isn't bankrupt. They simply exited the market. They still have their assets and liabilities.
The ONLY thing Lik-Sang may have to pay to Lik-Sang is the legal costs Sony incurred....
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Whoah! did I went out balance? I'm sorry..but I can't help it.
No. You failed miserably. It was like watching a drowning kitten trying to spin against a waterfall.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Oh, one more thing....really, that "honey" nonsense is getting old.
I used to work with mentally-ill children in a hospital when I was in high school. I used "Honey" alot when they did something stupid or damaging to themselves.
See the trend?
Originally posted by Lana
I've been a mod for a year, thanks, and you know jack-all about my 'record'.
Actually anyone who can read your posts does. It was fine until this summer...
Originally posted by Lana
Is anyone else here going around insinuating, implying, and flatout calling people stupid? No, I see one single person doing that, and that is you.
I have? Where? I haven't insulted anyone. I just insulted their asinine arguements that don't make a lick of sense.