My Rant On The 3 Story Arcs That Screwed Up The Force

It is the sheer inteptitude of Star Wars authors that has let it happen. Kevin J. Anderson may be one of the greatest science fiction authors of the age, but he was the one primarily responsible for turning the Force into LotR and Harry Potter-class magic. Exar Kun's spirit putting a post-DE Luke into a coma? Exar Kun's spirit imbuing Kyp with the power to resurrect the Sun Crusher?

Tom Veitch is also responsible for giving Emperor Palpatine the power of Force Storms (which is completely beyond what I consider to be 'mystical'😉.

The KotoR games are fun to play, but they - like LotF and the Legacy comics - have recycled storylines because the creators are simply too incompetent to come up with creative storylines.

If there's another: "the Sith return in a bid to control the galaxy - and nearly succeed until that one special Jedi foils them" plotline, I'm going to scream.

Timothy Zahn is the best all around author in SW. And, yet, he too overpowers some characters and undermines others. Thrawn can get an extraordinary readout of tactics from simply looking at artwork. Completely baseless - especially when Thrawn doesn't have superhuman cognitive powers. C'Boath being on par with RotJ Palpatine (though this is retconned)? Ridiculous.

And, yet, he made Luke very weak (or more realistic, I should say), in Survivor's Quest. The problem there is, this is set like 12 years after Dark Empire - and Luke has trouble taking out a single modified droideka.

These inconsistencies are stupid.

LotF is just as bad. Lumiya (despite being weaker than suit-Vader) is capable of creating phantoms in the Force that are as powerful as LotF Luke himself. Very, very stupid.

I prefer the old days. When Jedi were just tough.;Luke was pretty good, but not invincible; when Force push, pull, speed, jump, and mind trick were standard and basically it; when everyone feared Darth Vader; when Yoda and the Emperor were too powerful for lightsabers.

Those were the good days.

Originally posted by Escape81

LotF is just as bad. Lumiya (despite being weaker than suit-Vader) is capable of creating phantoms in the Force that are as powerful as LotF Luke himself. Very, very stupid.

I prefer the old days. When Jedi were just tough.;Luke was pretty good, but not invincible; when Force push, pull, speed, jump, and mind trick were standard and basically it; when everyone feared Darth Vader; when Yoda and the Emperor were too powerful for lightsabers.

Those were the good days.

Wow, I had already forgot about the Force Phantoms. I'm still hoping to get a good explanation of it, but rather they'll probably just say it was due Lumiyas 'awesome' power.

Well id like to agree with one thing escape said a while ago, DB POD really screwed things up, giving all of banes credit to revan. Who ever wrote that book is a fanboy of revan, and that guy himself worked with bioware making the kotor game. I only like kotor revan, not POD revan

I find james luceno the ok ok type, i really liked RODV while i didnt really like the unifying force because the areas and the charcters were very hard to imagine and see it virtually, Other than that i find RODV quite good

Although i find DE a major contradiction when stated by GL who is suppose to bring balance to the force which vader did but then palpatine comes back to wreck havok and make the sith return

Originally posted by Gideon
It is the sheer inteptitude of Star Wars authors that has let it happen. Kevin J. Anderson may be one of the greatest science fiction authors of the age, but he was the one primarily responsible for turning the Force into LotR and Harry Potter-class magic. Exar Kun's spirit putting a post-DE Luke into a coma? Exar Kun's spirit imbuing Kyp with the power to resurrect the Sun Crusher?

Tom Veitch is also responsible for giving Emperor Palpatine the power of Force Storms (which is completely beyond what I consider to be 'mystical'😉.

The KotoR games are fun to play, but they - like LotF and the Legacy comics - have recycled storylines because the creators are simply too incompetent to come up with creative storylines.

If there's another: "the Sith return in a bid to control the galaxy - and nearly succeed until that one special Jedi foils them" plotline, I'm going to scream.

Timothy Zahn is the best all around author in SW. And, yet, he too overpowers some characters and undermines others. Thrawn can get an extraordinary readout of tactics from simply looking at artwork. Completely baseless - especially when Thrawn doesn't have superhuman cognitive powers. C'Boath being on par with RotJ Palpatine (though this is retconned)? Ridiculous.

And, yet, he made Luke very weak (or more realistic, I should say), in Survivor's Quest. The problem there is, this is set like 12 years after Dark Empire - and Luke has trouble taking out a single modified droideka.

These inconsistencies are stupid.

LotF is just as bad. Lumiya (despite being weaker than suit-Vader) is capable of creating phantoms in the Force that are as powerful as LotF Luke himself. Very, very stupid.

I prefer the old days. When Jedi were just tough.;Luke was pretty good, but not invincible; when Force push, pull, speed, jump, and mind trick were standard and basically it; when everyone feared Darth Vader; when Yoda and the Emperor were too powerful for lightsabers.

Those were the good days.

Originally posted by Darth Scythe
I guess by themselves I always dismissed these things as annoying and tried not paying too much attention to them. Lately though when I've been thinking of the 3 of them combined and reading the threads on this board and thinking back to the games and books I've become pretty agitated. I remember growing up during the 80's and watching the OT and hearing them speak about the Republic Era Jedi as if they were the SW galaxy equivalent of Spartans, Samurai, and any other fabeled, noble warrior of their day. Seeing that I couldn't wait to see the Jedi in action in the Clone Wars they spoke about in the OT. So flash forward to the PT and I'm getting to see the Old Republic knights in action... everything is still fine.

Then the EU which I've been a fan of since '94 and the Zahn trilogy starts producing video games... Ok, well even then I'm playing some cool stuff but Teras Kasi comes out and I just find myself laughing as I return it to the store a week later. A chick beating a Jedi's ass unarmed? A Tusken Raider as her apprentice? Surely Lucas licensing will look closely at anything before such a lame product hits the shelves again. Still, this is nothing.

The first thing that really got me pissed was when they decided they were going to make Kyle Katarn a Jedi Knight after undergoing some half ass training. On top of that, they went on to give him powers Luke didn't even have at the time like lightining and lifting force choke. Here I was thinking 'what makes this douche so special he can have a better array than Luke?' I mean even from the beginning I couldn't get past dude's name. Kyle Katarn? That's like someone from your school being named Larry Lion or Trevor Tiger... It was corny overkill to me.

Then Lucas licensing shifted the crap storm into hyperspeed as I don't remember which of the next two arcs came next. For sake of staying with the new Jedi order let's just say it was the Vong/NJO series. Ok, [B]WHAT THE F*CK were they on when they decided to invent some of these techniques? I mean the 'Battle Meld' where everyone's thoughts were one? Getthefuggouttaherewiththatbullshit. And where Lomi Plo killed a Vong by using a Force laser-grid-beam-thingy technique. That was enough for me to stop reading the NJO series... and I've read EVERY novelized series. What's next? Force kamehameha? Force beams coming out of the eyes a la Cyclops style?

Finally, the piece de resistance was the *gasp* KOTOR games. I'm sure some of the younger peeps want to tp my house seeing that but hear me out. Granted, I didn't have a problem with the gameplay itself. In fact, I was a fan of both the games. But when you introduce another unpredented technique like it's nothing its on the road of ridiculousness. Force draining a whole planet? Are you kidding me? Some zombie sith who's cheating death yet Palpatine doesn't mention it when he's giving the Plagueis pitch to Ani? Strange you'd think that'd be a Sith prerequisite technique right up there with Force lightning. Yet no one else replecates it. Some of the stuff they do in the KOTOR games just borders on Superman/Silver Surfer type powers, and frankly it warps the fabric of the SW tangibility IMO.

I'm not hating on the authors of these books or developers of these games because they're just trying to make a living like everyone else. I'm just angered that the geniuses down at LL allow all the liberties to be taken. Because now, when I think of the PT Jedi I don't see the Golden Age of the Jedi(and rightly so they DID all die). I just see weak Jedi's who's role ended up being minor in comparison to what seem like ultra powerful Jedi of other EU stories.

It almost makes you wonder, was the PT/OT held at the most exciting time of the SW timeline? There were plenty of other times when more Jedi and Sith were around and arguably more was at stake...

/End rant. *whew* [/B]

I am just going to have to say something after all.

Your problem is with KotOR 2 man, which blew horribly. Pretend it never happened and you really have no problem with the original. Two sucked so dont drag its predecessor in two it. If you've got a problem with the Sith Lords then go ahead and rant, it was an awful sequel, but dont draw the first game in as well as the comic book series.

LOTF is by far the worst of them, it completely destroys alot of the good old days of star wars when characters werent so over hyped

Don't like it? Don't read it!

That's my motto.

The movies are still the same. Stick with them and you won't get your panties in a twist.

I aint gonna read LOTF, Stupid authors

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Don't like it? Don't read it!

That's my motto.

The movies are still the same. Stick with them and you won't get your panties in a twist.

yup, totally agree with you there.

and there's no chance of them panties gettin wet with excitement either - the films are lame after a while, and only ESB remains good.

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Don't like it? Don't read it!

That's my motto.

Thats bordering on an ignorant statement. How would one know beforehand if an book is good or not. One of the first phrases most people remember is "don't judge a book by its cover". I can't speak for everyone, but if you spend money on a book of a franchise you've been following for most of your life and begin reading it then why not finish it?

Would you go to your favorites sports teams game and leave in the middle of it just because your team started losing? If so than what does that say about ones character?

Take the Raiders for example, I like them and I'll still be a fan of them even though I can admit they were the worst NFL team this season... Anyways, most people would probably stay for most of the game then complain how their team sucked that night, much like I complained how the books I like to read had a bad spell.

Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Thats bordering on an ignorant statement. How would one know beforehand if an book is good or not. One of the first phrases most people remember is "don't judge a book by its cover". I can't speak for everyone, but if you spend money on a book of a franchise you've been following for most of your life and begin reading it then why not finish it?

Would you go to your favorites sports teams game and leave in the middle of it just because your team started losing? If so than what does that say about ones character?

Take the Raiders for example, I like them and I'll still be a fan of them even though I can admit they were the worst NFL team this season... Anyways, most people would probably stay for most of the game then complain how their team sucked that night, much like I complained how the books I like to read had a bad spell.

i think the point here is for those who hate the EU entirely: don't read any more then, as you'e never going to be satisfied. in that case it's a waste of money.

and for those who enjoy the bantam press line, but read the first NJO book and hated it - don't read them. same argument again: you're not going to be satisfied.

Originally posted by Kadesh
LOTF is by far the worst of them, it completely destroys alot of the good old days of star wars when characters werent so over hyped

um.... it's called progress. as i've pointed out on a number of occasions, there is only some much GL could do with his films, and only as much as technology of the time would allow. if GL decided not to go ahead with the PT, but someone wrote a book about some guy with a double-bladed lightsaber people would think it was pathetic and get pissed off because the films only ever had single bladed lightsabers.

Originally posted by Gideon
I prefer the old days. When Jedi were just tough.;Luke was pretty good, but not invincible; when Force push, pull, speed, jump, and mind trick were standard and basically it; when everyone feared Darth Vader; when Yoda and the Emperor were too powerful for lightsabers.

Those were the good days.

Originally posted by starwarsfreak34
um.... it's called progress. as i've pointed out on a number of occasions, there is only some much GL could do with his films, and only as much as technology of the time would allow. if GL decided not to go ahead with the PT, but someone wrote a book about some guy with a double-bladed lightsaber people would think it was pathetic and get pissed off because the films only ever had single bladed lightsabers.

When you start making characters with severe emotional issues who's troubled and exciting tales are told through what seems like over-blown narration, strange and increasingly more powerful Force powers which revolve around ever changing (and never-ending) theories of the Force, new enemies which become more and more bizarre as time goes on (Vong, Killiks), and the bringing back of enemies which should have died a 1000 times by now (Sith), you know the authors are straining for material to hold the attention of devoted fans who, despite their grievances, continue to buy and read the books in the hope for something new, fun, and yet hopefully original, fresh, and down to earth at the same time.

*takes a breath*

Originally posted by Tangible God
Just because it's technological, chronological, and character progression, doesn't make it better. The movies kept things to a respectable degree of realism within Star Wars, no matter how bad the acting was at some points.

When you start making characters with severe emotional issues who's troubled and exciting tales are told through what seems like over-blown narration, strange and increasingly more powerful Force powers which revolve around ever changing (and never-ending) theories of the Force, new enemies which become more and more bizarre as time goes on (Vong, Killiks), and the bringing back of enemies which should have died a 1000 times by now (Sith), you know the authors are straining for material to hold the attention of devoted fans who, despite their grievances, continue to buy and read the books in the hope for something new, fun, and yet hopefully original, fresh, and down to earth at the same time.

*takes a breath*

so what would you suggest for a new story - another superweapon, or perhaps another empire - uho, i think the latter one exists..... no Star Wars at all then? Personally, the only reason i read the books now IS for the Force theories and emotional issues. I also think that some people will NEVER be happy with whatever the EU brings, therefore maybe it is about time for it to end - though id rather it didnt

I agree with EVERYTHING you said. In fact, your last topic is on of the reasons i love kotor but i hate kotor II. I mean, and no matter what you say, Kotor makes no contradicton with the Force World. Even the "destroy droid" power actually exist. Master Arca for example, he also uses an attack that destroy droids components and this power only affect droids. So, the kotor's "destroy droid" can perfectly be cannot-
However, in kotor II we have, let's see:

- wounds in the force??? WTF?
- a sith lord that destroyed 1 planet with hundreds of jedis with 1 force attack??????
- a sith lord whose flesh was separated from bones and his body is completly crush and his power is not affected, in fact he seems stronger due to his damage, yet see what happen with anakin: with MUCH less damage he lost most of his potential. Incredibaly, sion seems to have no power decrease... Ok, we don't know him before but he said he was on Korriban when revan killed uthar, so sion was not that strong before suffer all that damage, so his power should GREATLY decrease, making him less then 1 average sith lord...
- kreia kills 3 jedi masters with 1 force drain... I am starting to think thart force drain is 10x times stronger then force lightning...

These are the main problems to me...

Very good post.

hmmm... i see no reason to argue here - finally 😛.

what you said is perfectly true, and i agree. I hated KotOR II very much. the wound in the Force was exactly as you said - WTF!!!! and the worst part of it for me is that in almost every possible way, Kreia is like a CLONE of vergere (philosophy wise) and a big rip-off of her - and yet she wanted to DESTROY THE FORCE? (at least as i came to understand it....)

your point about Sion is also well made - i honestly can't see why KotOR II is liked by ANYONE with this kind of shit...

KoTor (both games) has to be excused to some lengths because it is, a video game, but all along, there has been a strain for new material. Now we are at a stage when force powers are described like some kind of video game special from an anime franchise, instead of creating an aura and mystique.

I'd be much more interested in the underworld aspects of the Star Wars universe, the ones firmly grounded in Star Wars reality; the Hutt gangsters, the Smugglers, the Bounty Hunters, the scum of the galaxy.

Originally posted by exanda kane
KoTor (both games) has to be excused to some lengths because it is, a video game, but all along, there has been a strain for new material. Now we are at a stage when force powers are described like some kind of video game special from an anime franchise, instead of creating an aura and mystique.

I'd be much more interested in the underworld aspects of the Star Wars universe, the ones firmly grounded in Star Wars reality; the Hutt gangsters, the Smugglers, the Bounty Hunters, the scum of the galaxy.

mmm.... now that would be interesting. Criminal organisations like Black Sun would make a nice change of direction - for books and games. Though they did try this with the expansion for Empire at War - and though i havnt got it, my mate says its not all that good.