Freedom of thought

Originally posted by FeceMan
Many people may demonstrate it, but Christianity does not require that we adhere to the beliefs of the religious leaders. However, standing by what is written in the Bible as being truth does not mean we are not allowed to have free thought.

It was not the "knowledge" that damned them but the act itself.

Essentially, Adam and Eve are punished for seeking knowldege—because they are not content to remain ignorant. What kind of belief system demands bedience at the expense of knowledge?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Essentially, Adam and Eve are punished for seeking knowldege—because they are not content to remain ignorant. What kind of belief system demands bedience at the expense of knowledge?

Originally posted by FeceMan
They wanted to become like God (which, incidentally, involved knowing good and evil), which was the same sin that caused the fall of Lucifer.

which is why "Lucifer" pulled the bitter card from his sleeve and convinced Eve that god was trying to "keep her down". Which should illustrate that no one likes to be kept in the dark or treated like a pet.

Originally posted by FeceMan
They wanted to become like God (which, incidentally, involved knowing good and evil), which was the same sin that caused the fall of Lucifer.

(Notwithstanding the inherent illogic and hypocrisy of apparently being omniscient, engaging in the entrapment of placing the tree of knowledge in the garden, and then punishing the pair for doing something "evil", when the two lack any knowledge of good and evil.)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I.e. an allegory that to act independently of religious authority and to strive to put oneself on equal footing with said authority is bad.

(Notwithstanding the inherent illogic and hypocrisy of apparently being omniscient, engaging in the entrapment of placing the tree of knowledge in the garden, and then punishing the pair for doing something "evil", when the two lack any knowledge of good and evil.)

yes, much like I said to JIA, why put the tree there in the first place? It's just the diabolical villain twisting his mustache while telling the hero the terrible plot he has in store for the world and then leaving him to die without making sure the job is done before wanding off to acheive his evil goals.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
yes, much like I said to JIA, why put the tree there in the first place? It's just the diabolical villain twisting his mustache while telling the hero the terrible plot he has in store for the world and then leaving him to die without making sure the job is done before wanding off to acheive his evil goals.

Spoken like a true person lacking knowledge (I actually had another word for this but the Lord told me not to call you that, you might have misconstrued me). I have already explained this to you. The Lord God put that tree there so that Adam and Eve's volition (i.e. power to choose) could be legitimized. If the only alternative is good then you don't truly have a choice now do you. So it is believable that the Lord put that tree there to cause there free wills to go into force legally. There wills were now in force, but: do they obey God out of love or do they choose to disobey? That is the question. We all know the story: they chose to disobey.

So you're saying god isn't omniscient? Cool, glad we have that clear.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I actually had another word for this but the Lord told me not to call you that, you might have misconstrued me

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So you're saying god isn't omniscient? Cool, glad we have that clear.
"No - you talk to God - you're religious. God talks to you - you're psychotic." House

House? Is that another medieval word!...aw, I got my hopes up for nothing. It is just another mundane word. Could you use some more antiquated words, you see, I am trying to build a list of the weirdest words to ever grace this forum. So could ya throw in a couple a plebians and troglodytes and ilks next time you respond to my posts? Thanks x your the best!.

😄

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
House? Is that another medieval word!...aw, I got my hopes up for nothing. It is just another mundane word. Could you use some more antiquated words, you see, I am trying to build a list of the weirdest words to ever grace this forum. So could ya throw in a couple a plebians and troglodytes and ilks next time you respond to my posts? Thanks x your the best!.

😄

Now you try:
Are you saying that your god is not omniscient? Or that he's simply a hypocrite?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
House is a TV show. See how easy it is to answer direct questions.

Now you try:
Are you saying that your god is not omniscient? Or that he's simply a hypocrite?

Who are you? What have you done with x (looks at you with a mean stare). Just kidding. But seriously, I almost do not recognize you. The x that I know can't go a post without insulting me or using outmoded words that only you understand. (Looks at you with a sideways glance and asks) Have you been readin' the Bible?

Hmm, JIA sidesteps a simple question. Must Saturday, i.e. dies Saturni.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I.e. an allegory that to act independently of religious authority and to strive to put oneself on equal footing with said authority is bad.

Indeed, I honestly don't know where "made in his image" comes into our lives - I mean it doesn't make us equal with God, doesn't really give us any power, doesn't make God want to look at us with equal.

Like having a child "Child, by reproduction you are in my image, but that is all. I won't consider you human, I wont consider you an equal, and you will never understand me or what I do. Now get under the stairs and go to sleep."

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Spoken like a true person lacking knowledge (I actually had another word for this but the Lord told me not to call you that, you might have misconstrued me). I have already explained this to you. The Lord God put that tree there so that Adam and Eve's volition (i.e. power to choose) could be legitimized. If the only alternative is good then you don't truly have a choice now do you. So it is believable that the Lord put that tree there to cause there free wills to go into force legally. There wills were now in force, but: do they obey God out of love or do they choose to disobey? That is the question. We all know the story: they chose to disobey.

By all means, call me anything you want. I do it to you. I will continue to do it to you.

"god" put this pratfall in place, or "god" put that pratfall in place. It's all the same. "God" got out of the situation exactly what "he" wanted. Just like sin, evil and temptation, god created free will as an excuse. At least as far as your world view is concerned. (If not, then "God" didn't create everything, nor is he all-knowing)

"So it is believable"? An interesting choice of words. I'd think pigs could fly....if "it were believable".

you want to blame everyting on temptation and free will and Satan? Go ahead. I do. "God" gave them free will. And it seems to me that "he's" spent the last 2000 years being pissed they decided to give his self-righteous, over-indulgent, hypocritical ass the middle finger. I do the same to you. To you and your outdated world view. I'd also like to point out that there's a wonderful kool-aid cocktail waiting for you on the ass-end of this comet we're all hoping will take us to heaven.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I.e. an allegory that to act independently of religious authority and to strive to put oneself on equal footing with said authority is bad.

(Notwithstanding the inherent illogic and hypocrisy of apparently being omniscient, engaging in the entrapment of placing the tree of knowledge in the garden, and then punishing the pair for doing something "evil", when the two lack any knowledge of good and evil.)

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Who are you? What have you done with x (looks at you with a mean stare). Just kidding. But seriously, I almost do not recognize you. The x that I know can't go a post without insulting me or using outmoded words that only you understand. (Looks at you with a sideways glance and asks) Have you been readin' the Bible?

Answer the question Mr. Dodge, it is simple and straight forward. So, knowing that God knew what would certainly happen beforehand, why place the tree in the garden to test the couple if God already knew the outcome? It is more on the lines of entrapment if anything and it would certainly nullify the 'free will' clause.

Originally posted by FeceMan
They wanted to become like God (which, incidentally, involved knowing good and evil), which was the same sin that caused the fall of Lucifer.

Originally posted by FeceMan
There's a large difference between disobeying religious authority and disobeying God, not to mention that they had one restriction--only one--and they still managed to **** it up.

Originally posted by FeceMan
They knew better than to disobey God.

And, they didn't know what evil was. Just as kids would pull a kittens tail would know that it is not a good thing...Harming.....Yes, how would they know the judgement on them along with all their descendants if never told that...never told...never told......never told...never told.....

Echo...echo...echo....echo...

Originally posted by FeceMan
They wanted to become like God (which, incidentally, involved knowing good and evil), which was the same sin that caused the fall of Lucifer.

What is wrong with recognizing that your present state is unsatisfactory, and striving to be better?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm an agnostic. Thus I view it as an allegory, rather than literally.
So you're saying lacking any knowledge of good and evil, they would still somehow have the knowledge that Lucifer had malicious intent, and knowledge that to disobey is evil.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What is wrong with recognizing that your present state is unsatisfactory, and striving to be better?