Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There's a thin line between freedom fighter and terrorist...it depends which side you look at it from. Is it alright to kill people? Nope it isn't...but when you look at everything he's lost it's understandable...why one would do that...I mean if my family or someone I cared about were murdered...I'd totally be out for blood...It's War...at the end of the day...there is no Good and Evil in war...
So in that sense he's not a villian....
What makes Magneto a villian though are his interactions with his fellow mutants...his word is GOD...if you disagree with his views then you are as much the enemy as the Human Race...
wow
great effing post
I'd say war is inherently evil, but its the same argument from there.
Originally posted by inamilist
wowgreat effing post
I'd say war is inherently evil, but its the same argument from there.
Thanks...looking back at that post now...I'm tempted to replace "Good and Evil" to "Right and Wrong side"...I think that's what I meant at the time... 😛
In all honesty I wouldn't touch his or Xavier's ethos...too messy for me.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Okay now I admit this is just evil....:
"Fuel is for lesser men."
"No one tells Magneto what to do!"
"The very sight of that sign offends me"
"When I get angry, THINGS BEGIN TO HAPPEN!"
Superman dickery just got overshadowed...
Originally posted by ExodusCloakI prefer the Emma Frost ethos to human-mutant relations:
Thanks...looking back at that post now...I'm tempted to replace "Good and Evil" to "Right and Wrong side"...I think that's what I meant at the time... 😛In all honesty I wouldn't touch his or Xavier's ethos...too messy for me.
😊
Originally posted by spidey-dude
i dont call magneto a good guy. but he still has a heart. he kills for a reason. he doesnt want to go destroy the whole damn world like some of those other guys
I dont know, I think that might make it more evil. Not the killing, but the fact that he can justify the killing to himself with a cause and he indoctrinates others to do the same.
not to make the most cliche analogy possible, but the Nazi's didn't consider themselves evil.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I prefer the Emma Frost ethos to human-mutant relations:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/3Emmaxyz.jpg😊
🙂
I agree with you about her ethos, but the way she basically violates people's minds puts her well above xavier on the evil scale for me. but i guess you never really said she wasnt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_%28comics%29#Xorn
I don't know if you read through this I think Ultimate Magneto would be more evil.
If Xavier wasn't so much of a hypocrite, I think I would favour his pacifist agenda over everyone else.
Oh and Like I stated in my earlier post Magneto is so clearly a villain. the fact that he has good reasoning behind his wrongdoing, doesn't mean what he does is any less.....well wrong ✅ His good intentions doesn't justify murder. Forgive me for taking a moral high ground, but I felt it necessary for this discussion ✅
Originally posted by willRules
If Xavier wasn't so much of a hypocrite, I think I would favour his pacifist agenda over everyone else.Oh and Like I stated in my earlier post Magneto is so clearly a villain. the fact that he has good reasoning behind his wrongdoing, doesn't mean what he does is any less.....well wrong ✅ His good intentions doesn't justify murder. Forgive me for taking a moral high ground, but I felt it necessary for this discussion ✅
Well its like this, when you get your parents shot in front of you and they get buried alive with you maybe you would think different.
Its really easy to take the moral high ground when your not under pressure or you havent been in that situation.
I personally belive both Magneto and Xavier are wrong. Magneto is too violent, Xavier is too passive. I think somewhere in the middle is the right path and Emma seems to have it.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well its like this, when you get your parents shot in front of you and they get buried alive with you maybe you would think different.Its really easy to take the moral high ground when your not under pressure or you havent been in that situation.
I personally belive both Magneto and Xavier are wrong. Magneto is too violent, Xavier is too passive. I think somewhere in the middle is the right path and Emma seems to have it.
agree
If we built a psychological profile of Magneto, we could probably determine WHY he acts in the way he does. That, to me, doesn't really vindicate him. He is still deciding to do things which cause people mortal harm, regardless of his reasons.
I like what I have read of Emma too. It sounds a lot like a pragmatic segregation. Maybe not a eutopian solution, but certainly a step in the right direction from charles or mags.
Yeah I think I'm also inclined to agree with Emma but not the "They will always hate us" quote, I mean that's just silly. There is no way she can determine that and she will only go against her wishes and prove herself right with that attitude.
I'm not saying I disagree with her ideology/philosophy just that statement ✅
Originally posted by willRules
Yeah I think I'm also inclined to agree with Emma but not the "They will always hate us" quote, I mean that's just silly. There is no way she can determine that and she will only go against her wishes and prove herself right with that attitude.I'm not saying I disagree with her ideology/philosophy just that statement ✅
Well think about it. At the time that speech was made mutants were already going to inherit the Earth within the next four generations. The Human Race was already dying out. With that said man will always envy what he does not have.
I mean if I was to put myself in the shoes of the average MU human I'd probably feel a slight "hatred"(Resentful may be a better word) towards all superpowered beings aswell. I mean why were these particular individuals blessed with gifts and I wasn't? Why does the boy who sits 3 desks to the right given the ability to see the future? I don't have any powers therefore I'm not able to play "War" with my the rest of my class. What makes them so special? I work twice as hard as everyone else but the girl with the telepathy keeps getting higher grades then me in exams. Why does my brother have the ability to control things magnetically....but me...I'm just human...
In all honesty I guess I'd just be angry and hateful. Reading over that I actually hate myself right now. I never want to be that type of person.
Anyway...personally I feel she was spot on with her analysis..."they will always hate us"....it's just human nature.(And I'm usually an optimist)
Still it's a very interesting issue you raised...I'd like to know how other posters would feel about this subject if they were the average MU human citizen.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well think about it. At the time that speech was made mutants were already going to inherit the Earth within the next four generations. The Human Race was already dying out. With that said man will always envy what he does not have.
I mean if I was to put myself in the shoes of the average MU human I'd probably feel a slight "hatred"(Resentful may be a better word) towards all superpowered beings aswell. I mean why were these particular individuals blessed with gifts and I wasn't? Why does the boy who sits 3 desks to the right given the ability to see the future? I don't have any powers therefore I'm not able to play "War" with my the rest of my class. What makes them so special? I work twice as hard as everyone else but the girl with the telepathy keeps getting higher grades then me in exams. Why does my brother have the ability to control things magnetically....but me...I'm just human...In all honesty I guess I'd just be angry and hateful. Reading over that I actually hate myself right now. I never want to be that type of person.
Anyway...personally I feel she was spot on with her analysis..."they will always hate us"....it's just human nature.(And I'm usually an optimist)
Still it's a very interesting issue you raised...I'd like to know how other posters would feel about this subject if they were the average MU human citizen.
I see you point but I still don't think Emma was truly qualified to say "They will always hate us." That's a bit extreme even for a persecuted Mutant. I can understand resentment and I think you have a very valid point, but I don't personally feel the word "always" should be in Miss Frost's statement ✅
I think the flaw in Magnaeto's idealolgy is he has become the very thing he hates and in turn proven that the end doesn't necessarily justify the means.
The flaw in Xavier's idealolgy is that whilst Charles has taken a pacifist moral high ground and probaly taken (IMO) the right course of action in terms of morality (which is very important) he essentially achieves his goals through soldiers/X-men and therefore through violent means.
And the flaw in Emma's idealolgy is simple. She is far too pesimistic. If what she says is true (Which isn't always) Every mutant may as well not even try to form a relationship with humans.
She's not a pessimist so much as a realist.
Unlike Xavier and Magneto, Emma isn't bound by unwavering ideals, she's a pragmatist. She forms her opinions, jaded though they may seem, on the information at hand - and as a telepath the information at hand is often expansive.
"They will always hate us." is perfectly true to her, based on her experiences and dealings with ordinary humans.
Originally posted by inamilistPshaw. Xavier sent a group of children to an island to their death. He knew the Danger Room had evolved intelligence and yet kept it as a training device. He's most certainly no saint.
🙂
I agree with you about her ethos, but the way she basically violates people's minds puts her well above xavier on the evil scale for me. but i guess you never really said she wasnt.
Originally posted by willRules
I see you point but I still don't think Emma was truly qualified to say "They will always hate us." That's a bit extreme even for a persecuted Mutant. I can understand resentment and I think you have a very valid point, but I don't personally feel the word "always" should be in Miss Frost's statement ✅I think the flaw in Magnaeto's idealolgy is he has become the very thing he hates and in turn proven that the end doesn't necessarily justify the means.
The flaw in Xavier's idealolgy is that whilst Charles has taken a pacifist moral high ground and probaly taken (IMO) the right course of action in terms of morality (which is very important) he essentially achieves his goals through soldiers/X-men and therefore through violent means.
And the flaw in Emma's idealolgy is simple. She is far too pesimistic. If what she says is true (Which isn't always) Every mutant may as well not even try to form a relationship with humans.
I hope I'm not coming across as an Emma fanboy for saying this...but when it comes to her practical approach in life I fall hook line and sinker. I have never really had any qualms with her views on life...apart from her being darn right ruthless at times...however her ruthlessness is always carried out in a subtle manner and it becomes very hard to argue with her views because her morals seem to lie dead centre on the Right & Wrong threshold. She's definitely not a playground bully...there's too much finesse in the tactics she uses.
Here's the full speech:
http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/2378/astonishingxmen0107ao3.jpg
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/6205/astonishingxmen0108cu0.jpg
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/5599/astonishingxmen0109ic6.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/552/astonishingxmen0110tg7.jpg
To be fair...she did have a valid point in saying that....if she didn't then she'd be just like Xavier. Xavier is..."naive" when it comes to his "Dream" and Human Mutant Relations. He believes that mutants and humans can coexist...peacefully...he believes that the Humans will just hand over the Earth on a silver platter when the time comes for mutants to inherit it. That is probably his biggest flaw.
Think about it with the knowledge that a superior species will one day inevitably take over there's bound to be hate. Obviously the level of hatred will vary depending on the individual but you have to understand that whether or not it's the right take on life for students...it's still the truth. And sometimes the truth isn't very nice to hear. Someone had to say it...but the person also had reassure them that there will be severe repurcussions for violent behaviour as it isn't the right way to go about calming Mutant/Human relations...might as well be Emma.
Come to think of it....if the humans knew about...Wanda...mutant/human relations would have have gone back to the dark ages.
As for Magneto his views seem to fluctuate at times depending on who's writing. We have seen both sides to him...his compassion and ruthlessness to both humans and mutants....but the thing that really gets to me is the way he treats his own kind...it's sort of hard to follow him when his word is GOD. Anyone who doesn't believe is basically a traitor. And people like Exodus make sure these traitors are dealt with. At the end of the day Magneto and Xaviers views just aren't practical in real life situations.
Looking at the X-Men Annual #1....Exodus might be having second thoughts about Magnetos ethos...that or he decided to make one of his own.
