Noooooo!!!!!!1

*applauds to surreal* ok I'm not even joking, you put this beautifully and if anyone could persuad me into thinkin W/E will be together that's you cause you don't SHIP it u want E/N to be together but u put your feelings aside to see what really is in the movie and that's why your word is much more of a value than W/E shippers who WANT them to be together and don't SEE it.

but I have to say this...all these theories ARE totally based on movie studies (are they not LovelyOne?) and there is such a thing as "too deep" but this ain't it , take me word for it I'm not gonna get into it but I've seen what too deep is and if u want to just tell me so I can post it but fer now I won't waste time on that the point is: "this is what movie studies IS, these are what u study when u go to class fer it and T&T have also done these studies" but anyways..I'm not sayin J/E WILL be togethercause T&T are really W/E shippers (although they ARE the two ppl who made J/E kiss as opposed to the many other ways lizzie could've distracted that but since many theories are against that lets just ignore it)all I'm sayin is that I WANT, DESIRE and NEED J/E together and i totally confess to being obssesed AND blind to other facts ok? many ppl here aren't blind to things against J/E but I am and I admit it.

Ok I rambled on fer this much just to get to this: no matter what u say at the end of the day we will all want JE even if it aint gonna happen (which probably aint but neither is WE) and you're a good member on this forum so why bother yourself. lets just agree to disagree quite peacefully shall we? (BTW i would much rather see lizzie with norri than will an i totally get why u like them so much they look pretty good together 😄)

Originally posted by Surreal_44
I understand and see that Will and Elizabeth are in love and will end up together. That's the bottom line. Much as I WANT, HOPE and DESIRE for Elizabeth to secretly love Norrington and to go to him, it ain't gonna happen.

She loves Will. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to see this. It isn't a love for a child, like a lot of you make it out to be. She doesn't hate Will, and I don't think she ever is going to abandon him. Everything those two have done in these two movies has been for the OTHER. Not for Jack, not for Tia, not for Gov. Swann, but for each other.

Yes, there is some distance between them. Will is hurt and angry and feels betrayed...who wouldn't? He is thinking ahead, thinking of the future...and probably not thinking about Elizabeth's kiss because it's too painful for him at the moment. Remember, Will offers to bring Jack back. His face softens...he thinks Elizabeth loves Jack.

She doesn't. As for Elizabeth not weeping for Norrington's men, I don't think she understood the magnitude of what she had done. She did try to fix things before it all happened, but it was too late. Her actions INDIRECTLY caused the deaths of those men.

She was the direct cause of Jack's death, which shook her up. She wants to fix it. Also, as far as Ted's (it was Ted, right?) quote is concerned, I want to know how you think that the emotional decision to go fetch Jack back is tied into love. It isn't. Those are tears of regret all right...regret for killing a guy.

Ted also said he was happy with the way the movie ends...which is with Jack dead, and Will and Elizabeth together. Will and Elizabeth are not seperated. They are going to go get Jack back TOGETHER. Not seperately. She's not leaving Will to go off to find Jack on her own. 'Nuff said.

They won't be seperated in the third movie either. Is this concept too hard to grasp? Everything, everything, everything always leads back to W/E. They LOVE each other.

No matter what ship I WANT to see together, it means nothing when everything is about W/E.

I know Terry's quote didn't mean Jack, Lovely. Not everything is as it seems in the world of Pirates...which is why I think you all are getting waaaaaaaaaaay too over-eager for a J/E ending. It isn't going to happen. [/B]

Everything isn't about W/E. they have about 4 measly scenes together in 1, and like 3 in 2. The focus is on Liz/Jack in 2.

The movie didn't end at all with W/L together--- you just contradicted yourself. You said Will softened and suggested bringing back Jack because he thought Liz loved Jack (and this premise is false because Will's plan is to get the pearl and make sure Jack DOESNT get Liz) so that would mean Will thought he and Liz were over. So that's not "ending the movie together". Know what I'm saying?

And yes, they will be seperated in the third film for much of it. Not only do they hardly ever talk, they never are honest with each other. Will never comes out and says "do you love Jack" and Elizabeth never tells Will what that was all about. how can they develop as a couple if they never talk?
and after that, Liz gets traded, Will makes alliances with the bad guys... etc. Not a whole lot of couple time going on if ya know what i mean.

I dont think you can sufficiently judge what those tears of Lizzie's were for. We can conjecture all we want, but we don't know.

and you can have your opinions, but to say you know for sure what is going to happen just isnt very valid at this point. clearly, the majority of people DONT know what is going to happen, or we wouldnt bother debating.

BTW..a W/E ending doesnt happen either love..she ends up on her own..there I said it.

plus you REALLY dont get it do you..its not about where they are physically..he never said physically its emotional development..EMOTIONAL..and Will/Liz developed into absolutly NOTHING interesting in DMC..they fell apart..Keira even said this in an interview...and she said her and Jack developed into something interesting...Orlando said his character is now attatced to his father in an interview

Will's emotional development leaned towards his father and further away from Liz. At the end of DMC goshhow hard is that to see? I knew this before I even studied the darn movie and became a shipper..its flat out development right in your face..when I left the cinema I thought..Will's path is now his father..sorry but it doesnt take a fan of the movies to realise that Will's got his dad in his life and he has now become No1 by the time the movie ends.

Jack does not die in awe will does..so yeah thats not the closure to DMC..Jack's death I mean

how crazy would it be if elizabeth ended up with norrington. although id rather she died i would be quite happy with norri ending up with her- the poor guy deserves some happiness.

LOL^^ I like norri..I would rather her end up with him than Will

------------------------

also Ted or Terry just said she's feeling "guilty" at the end of DMC..n podcast..or wordplayer I cant remember which.

"guilty" can be used in any context..funny how there is a huge lack of explanation on Liz's feelings at the end of DMC...just one word used to describe them.

Aaso here's what Empire Magazine says happens in the 3rd(some of the 3rd anyway):

Will & Elizabeth: "Their relationship hits the rocks as they discover there are obstacles they might not be able to overcome... Elizabeth will ditch the tomboy look and possibly be kidnapped again. Will will be stuck with Barbossa." (Star Wars pairing, Luke & Leia)

(Luke/Leia...did they end up together?)

Davy Jones: "Villain he may be, but Pirates 3 will explore Squidface's backstory, showing how love drove him to villainy. A last-reel redemption is looking likely." (Star Wars pairing, Darth Vader)

Captain Jack: "Post-rescue will largely be stuck with Davy Jones. Ventures to the literal world's end for one of the film's biggest sequences..."

Norrington: "Betrayer at the end of DMC, you can bet your pieces of eight he's going to come good before the closing credits roll." (Star Wars pairing, Lando Calrissian)

Pirate-kind: "With piracy under threat of extinction, the world's pirates gather in one huge sequence to fight back."

Beckett:"Now in possession of Davy Jones's heart, Beckett will be looking to bring the pirating world to an end. Has severe angry-small-man syndrome." (Star Wars pairing, the Emperor)

So obviously W/E were pretty emotionally far apart by the time movie 2 closed surreal44.

i have to admit when i saw the film i thought she was just feeling in a shock and bad for killing a man, and that will says he will find jack becaue he thinks it will make her happy. from the way he tells her specifically rather than tia or the whole group. i cant remember what he sed exactly.

yeah anrion thats true actually. I agree with you

Because they did say the open plot ends like Davy J would be tied up differently if they wern't doing a 3rd but the emotional development in DMC has all the closure we need or something..

so the whole stealing the ship for his dad thing happens in movie 3..and we dont know this yet..but we kinda get a hint that its his dad who is most important..because of that Tia said to him moments before about getting the pearl back to save his dad and after ths he says "lets go get jack!" I bet he wouldnt have said so had she not just said that to him 🙂

so I kinda think its like Will's heart is with his dad..and he wants to let Liz be happy and go find Jack...cuz of what you noticed too about the ending with Will 🙂

Anrion have you seen that interview with orlie and Graham Norton?

this is also rather random..well kinda...it ties in with the ending..are these all the slaves jack released in the past from beckett you think?? It looks like there could be many more of them all in the woods plus the swamp

http://johnny-depp.org/moviepics/potc2_stills/potc2stills09.jpg

I think your right Lovelyone. I didn't even think of that, I agree they must be the slaves that Jack has set free. That is a very beautiful and haunting picture.

never thought of that before

sorry 3rd post in a row. when i watched Liz(before coming to this site)..I could see she was in shock for killing a man, But because of what I had just seen between the two on the pearl and the movie itself it suggested she had deeper feelings for him..because she tried not to kiss him again.

everything we saw in the movie suggests that its not just guilt for killing a man she is feeling ..when I add up everything I saw in DMC and then look at that ending..it was more than just guilt for killing a man..if it was just mere guilt for killing a man then why was all this stuff happening between her and Jack before she did it?..she was crying because she's lost Jack Sparrow.the man the compass was pointing too when she held it the man she was gaining feelings for throughout the movie, The one who came back for her on the pearl and the godlike shot whre Liz was looking at him. the man who's leg she clang on to the man she kissed and almost kissed again..the man who left her breathless and weak in the knees after kissing her, the man she showed care for just as she was leaving.

I also remembered that she has betrayed people like this in the past..and never shows that kind of guilt afterward.
I think we need to take into consideration what T&T said and not think about what we know when it comes to AWE..imagine it as if DMC was the last in the series

I would say Liz's heart belongs to Jack, Jack's belongs to her and Will's belongs to his fathers and this is why he will get Jack back for her..he'll give her what she wants. Liz is willing to give up an ending with will for Jack and Will is willing to do so too.

Originally posted by ToddianGirl
I think your right Lovelyone. I didn't even think of that, I agree they must be the slaves that Jack has set free. That is a very beautiful and haunting picture.

yeah. I agree. It makes me truly love Jack's character..if they are the slaves it makes sense that they are mourning him.

I would say Liz's heart belongs to Jack, Jack's belongs to her and Will's belongs to his fathers and this is why he will get Jack back for her..he'll give her what she wants. Liz is willing to give up an ending with will for Jack and Will is willing to do so too.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
this is also rather random..well kinda...it ties in with the ending..are these all the slaves jack released in the past from beckett you think?? It looks like there could be many more of them all in the woods plus the swamp

http://johnny-depp.org/moviepics/potc2_stills/potc2stills09.jpg

everything we saw in the movie suggests that its not just guilt for killing a man she is feeling ..when I add up everything I saw in DMC and then look at that ending..it was more than just guilt for killing a man..if it was just mere guilt for killing a man then why was all this stuff happening between her and Jack before she did it?..she was crying because she's lost Jack Sparrow.the man the compass was pointing too when she held it the man she was gaining feelings for throughout the movie, The one who came back for her on the pearl and the godlike shot whre Liz was looking at him. the man who's leg she clang on to the man she kissed and almost kissed again..the man who left her breathless and weak in the knees after kissing her, the man she showed care for just as she was leaving.

I would say Liz's heart belongs to Jack, Jack's belongs to her and Will's belongs to his fathers and this is why he will get Jack back for her..he'll give her what she wants. Liz is willing to give up an ending with will for Jack and Will is willing to do so too. [/B]

Nope. Sorry, I don't believe it. I have no reason to trust your source as I know nothing about her. Him. *shrug* Give me some evidence of who he/she is, how they are connected to the film and how easily they can obtain the script, and WHY they contact you, and maybe I'd be willing to hop into the boat and say, "Oh, sure. I see where you're coming from".

As it is, I have none of that, so I don't trust the material or the source. I'm sorry, I just can't. I'm not going to simply believe somebody I don't know a thing about; I'm just as wary of any sources at KTTC, by the way, so don't think that I believe what I hear there.

Until I see something confirmed by a writer (such as the leaked script), I simply read what I can and ponder on it. I think the leaked bits that you've given us don't tell the whole story very well, especially since you don't ever mention any hints of any other character aside from shipping stuff.

Give me something solid as evidence that your source is on the up-and-up, and then I will gracefully admit that I was wrong. Until you can, it's all speculation.

As far as W/E ending up together, I believe that is where it will end up. I don't compare their relationship to any other movies or books, because, well....those are meaningless. Each relationship has its own unique qualities, problems and situations. I wouldn't compare W/E to Tristan and Isolde (or would I? *wiggles brows*) any more than I'd compare J/E to Anthony and Cleopatra.

The stories all have vague similarities, but nothing that could be used as definitive proof one way or the other. The problem with J/E is that the ship defies all logic, and resorts to 'hidden meaning' and clues, instead of straight up proof. I can think of 10 things that are rather obvious about W/E right off the top of my head, and if I looked through the movies again, I'm sure I'd find more.

The other big thing that makes me think that J/E is not meant to be, no matter the kiss, is something I think I read about a while back. I don't know the exact words or where it came from, but it was from one or both of the writers stating that Elizabeth would never kiss Jack unless Will's life depended on it.

I think that pretty much says it all. Doesn't it?

Cool POTC
Look its cool and scarry

well surreal44..you are basing most of what you say on what T&T say..the way you interpret what they say is still only your opinion and not fact.

When I have read certain things they say..then looked harder and put them with what I have read from AWE..it actually comes across rather different.

PS..the draft script is actually in this script..except its written about 6 BILLION times better..not so sloppy

.And surreal44..that was them discussing the early stages of the script on podcast...before they had even written the sctip it seems..then they just built on it and its obiously not the case when you look at the final product.

.I would say Liz would have kissed Jack in the curiosity scene she looked dissapointed that he pulled away..she had her eyes closed, lips pushed out waiting for a kiss and LMAO again you are showing signs of that built in W/E blind spot that just ignores the fact she almost kissed him again on the pearl.."oh no she was gonna kiss him there again because it was life or death"..oh but wait no..he was ALREADY chained to that mast..if I remember correctly..then she grazed his top lip..eyes still closed pushing her mouth forward, struggling to breathe

In other words...she wanted to kiss him throughout most of the movie...even after she kissed him she wanted to again.

Imagine if she had just done that with no build up to it, it would have been bad writing..so T&T were smart it seems and added build up to it..there had to be build up it was there and it was even there afterward....the build up in the movie is Liz's sexual desire towards him and also the fear of her deeper feelings for him..tie the two together and you get the ending we see.

again they usually add in a teaser kiss between 2 characters in their movies to build up tension and the teaser kiss would happen if there was no interruption. This happened with W/E in movie 1 . It happened between J/E in this one too...she would have kissed him there had he not been interrupted.

and I dont recall that situation being life or death where she was trying to get a kiss out of him.

You still haven't given me any evidence that your script is the real deal. For all you know, this chick could be listening for spoilers and just writing around the script. There are people who do things like that, you know.

All I want to know is how she's connected to the films, and how likely it is that she can steal bits of the script to give to you.

As far as what TnT said, it all fits with W/E. You just don't want it to. So perhaps I'm wrong, but then again, perhaps YOU are wrong. I don't want to be mean, but there's a good chance that your interpretation of what TnT have said is incorrect.

I think your time-line might be off as well. The comment I'm discussing was new what...maybe two or three months ago? The script was already well on its way to being written and filmed, so I think that what TnT said pretty clearly states where J/E stand as far as romance goes.