Originally posted by SoljerActive camo is not invisibility. The camo is described by its own inventor to have its limits and it works better in the dark. Read my scan dammit. It also is an active camo cloak because it works exactly like the stupid Star Trek Klingon cloak which dropped once you fired weapons. So it is not true invisibility like Invisible Woman, because he can't stay camo cloaked. In essence, it seems very similar to the Predator's cloaking device, except Spidey can't stay invisible when attacking.
Give me a break, Spiderman's spidersense HAS painted 360 pictures before. Where are the damned scans? He was dodging something and the caption literally read "Spider sense paints a 360 of my surroundings...the gunman..blah blah blah."Also, what's wrong with assuming that Spiderman speedblitzes human opponents? He's done it to people much faster than batman before. Much more durable, too.
Lastly, the cloak is ASSUMED to be active camo, however, as portrayed in the Civil War volumes, it truly is invisibility. What do we go with as the more definitive? I suppose it's up to the individual, but the cloak hardly matters anyways. Spiderman is still dozens of times faster than Batman, and hundreds of times stronger.
Speedblitz.
Punches Batman's spine out of his body.
BTW, which writer gave Spiderman DD's radar sense all of a sudden? When did this happen? This is not an enhancement from 'The Other' storyline. Enhanced spidey sense has nothing to do with his changes, those changes were only stingers from his arm, night vision, tweaks to his strength and apparently, he can carry things on his back. Gawd. I hope they retcon that garbage and I'm glad we've seen none of it since. Spidey's powers come from some ancient mystical totem spider god and not from his spider bite? Lord.
Anyway, back to the travesty at hand. He's fighting Venom in that scan, it has to be the past. What comic did that come from? Because my opinion, is that it is utter bullcrap. I have 100's of comics and can post hundreds of scans of Spidey not knowing what's coming, only that something is heading his way and it's bad. I have comics of him sitting next to DD and both of them sensing danger and Spidey doesn't know what it is and DD identifies it as a shotgun. That scan is a travesty. It is now my crusade to debunk this myth. SPIDEY SENSE IS NOT RADAR SENSE.
His spidey sense DOES NOT paint a picture. It is precog that tells him danger is afoot and most importantly, from what direction. This is a scan from Spiderman Annual #23. Whoever that writer of that stupid panel is, should be shot on sight because he decided that his knowledge of Spiderman should be from the god damn movie and that fight scene with Flash. My god, how the hell did the editor allow that through?!
If anybody wishes to debate this fact, be prepared to be inundated with scans and examples. That some people actually read that and did not vomit, saddens me. More to come. I swear it. More to come. Anybody who stands in my way, prepare to be kicked in the nuts over and over until you understand what spidey sense is.
Err. I was reading what I just posted and in my hasty anger I do believe I may confuse people. So let me re-edit it thusly:
EDIT: His spidey sense DOES NOT paint a picture. It DOES NOT identify threats or anything of the sort. Spidey sense is mere precog that tells him danger is afoot and most importantly, from what direction. Whoever that writer of that stupid Venom 360 crap panel is of Metalmanx's, should be shot on sight. Do you know why? Because he decided that his knowledge of Spiderman should be from the GOD DAMN MOVIE AND THAT STUPID FIGHT SCENE WITH FLASH. My god, how the hell did the editor allow that through?!?!?!?!?!? It'd be as retarded as a person writing in that Magneto has ALWAYS worn a helmet that protects him from telepathy just because of the X-Men movies. Whoever that is, must be fired. The editor, we should kick him in the nuts.
If anybody wishes to debate this fact, be prepared to be inundated with scans and examples. That some people actually read that and did not vomit, saddens me. More to come. I swear it. More to come. Anybody who stands in my way, prepare to be kicked in the nuts over and over until you understand what spidey sense is.
Here is one such scan from Spiderman Annual #23. For goodness sake, the author actually explained spidey sense IN THE COMIC, look at what I circled in red:
Hmmm...which scan looks newer? What is the general rule of thumb to go by when scans contradict?
Well, I certainly hope you usually go by the new one. Otherwise, Wolverine, the Hulk, and Superman would all be dead several times over. Hell, almost every character in comics would have been dead several times over.
I am not using a new-er scan from some a$$hole hack over something that was written by Gerry Conway. Yes, Spiderman Annual #23 was written by Gerry Conway. And for you less-than-knowledgeables, for god sakes, Gerry Conway wrote Spiderman for a hundred issues. He wrote the actual 'Death of Gwen Stacy.'
You want me to post a new-er scan of Spiderman not being able to "paint a picture," no problem. If that's your standard Soljer, I'll easily get one for you and consider your nuts kicked for the day. I'll even make sure that it is clear from his thoughts or the action that he didn't knwo what was coming, onyl what direction. And get Metalmanx back in here to tell me what year that stupid scan was.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I am not using a new-er scan from some a$$hole hack over something that was written by Gerry Conway. Yes, Spiderman Annual #23 was written by Gerry Conway. And for you less-than-knowledgeables, for god sakes, Gerry Conway wrote Spiderman for a hundred issues. He wrote the actual 'Death of Gwen Stacy.'You want me to post a new-er scan of Spiderman not being able to "paint a picture," no problem. If that's your standard Soljer, I'll easily get one for you and consider your nuts kicked for the day. I'll even make sure that it is clear from his thoughts or the action that he didn't knwo what was coming, onyl what direction. And get Metalmanx back in here to tell me what year that stupid scan was.
I can come back on my own thanks.
And I have no idea what year it's from. I found it months ago in the Spidey Respect thread. I think it's when Spidey just recently fought Venom, when he had a different look. Ask Digi, he might know.
Here. Didn't have to look very far and its pretty damn frigging recent. 'Civil War' tie-in after the events in Civil War #2. Here, we see very clearly, Spiderman senses danger. Mary Jane looks to Peter questioningly and wondering what is wrong and Spiderman says, "Something's... spider-sense is going off... but there's too many people around... can't get a fix..."
Now, if spidey-sense really did paint a picture, he would have pictured the guy holding a gun behind his back. As it is depicted here, not only does he not know what the danger is, but he has trouble getting a fix on where exactly the danger is coming from and seems to be able to only discern the general direction.
"Something's" = I don't know what it is
"can't get a fix" = I'm not sure where exactly it's coming from
As you can see, Metalmanx's scan is a fluke and a complete utter editor's mistake. Let this be a lesson to the rest of you. Soljer's nuts have been kicked and he is once again ordered to read 100 Spiderman comics before reposting in this thread. Rest of you better learn from this lesson. SPIDEY SENSE DOES NOT EQUAL RADAR SENSE. Like I said and like the Gerry Conway scan explains, spider-sense is precognition of danger and which direction it's coming from.
EDIT: Who's Digi? Get him in here. Something smells fishy, is that scan of from a damn Ultimate Spiderman comic?
DigiMark007. One of the mods. And a giant fan of Spider-Man. He has a lot of comics and knows more than I do.
And may I say something? Calm down a bit, will you? You're REALLY overreacting here. 😬
What about Spidey's ability to fight blind, only using his spider-sense? He obviously most know where the attack is coming from, where it will potentially hit, and when it will strike in order to avoid it, correct? Correct.
Or perhaps when he's in complete darkness, using only his spider-sense to allow him to avoid objects. If it just told him "there's something there", that wouldn't be nearly enough information, and he'd trip/run into things all the time. It would have to tell him the length/width/height (or better yet, what the object is) and the exact location of the object. Otherwise, it would be pretty useless.
I just erased my whole explanation. I must now rewrite it. Once again, SPIDEY SENSE IS NOT RADAR SENSE. I put this in caps because there is no equivocation about it. How does spider-sense help him in the dark if it didn't show him where the objects are? I'll tell you:
If he were to walk forward in the dark at a certain pace and a desk was in front of him, he would eventually trip over it. Before he does, his spider-sense will tingle. The closer or faster he comes to the desk, the more intense it is. Now imagine he starts side-stepping gradually as he advances towards the desk. The spider-sense will proportionally diminish because the danger is diminishing. Instead of walking straight into it, his legs will brush the side of it causing him to stumble and not trip. As he passes the threshold of danger and sidesteps enough that he won't touch it at all, the spider-sense tingle evaporates.
It is the information from the intensity of the spider-sense that allows for measuring the width of that desk. Now just apply that same idea to the height and length and there you go. That is enough information to guide his way through the dark. Now, it is very important to not confuse this with radar sense. Spidey does not carefully measure the intensity of the tingle, then calculate that into distance and units of measurement and then consciously adjusts the way he moves. The measurement is instinctual and he adjusts instantaneously through arachnid reflexes.
Gerry Conway further explains this in the highlighted caption. As you can see, the idea that Spidey gets a picture in his head of whats around him, then reacts to what he knows... is the furthest idea of spider-sense there is. It is much more appropriate to say that his body reacts instinctually and unconsciously to what he can't perceive. Trust the writer of 'The Death of Gwen Stacy.' Trust me.
The previous Metalmanx scan is either from an Ultimate Spiderman book or some comic that came out after the Spiderman movie. Movie spider-sense is 360 perception of everything and accelerated recognition of time. In other words, Peter can see everything and everything slows down in his eyes. You can see this when he dodges Flash's arm and wonders, "Huh." That is movie spider-sense and somehow it crept into a comic book underneath an editor's nose. Case closed. Read the Conway scans and if you're not satisfied, read the 'Civil War' scan. Nuff said.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I just erased my whole explanation. I must now rewrite it. Once again, SPIDEY SENSE IS NOT RADAR SENSE. I put this in caps because there is no equivocation about it. How does spider-sense help him in the dark if it didn't show him where the objects are? I'll tell you:If he were to walk forward in the dark at a certain pace and a desk was in front of him, he would eventually trip over it. Before he does, his spider-sense will tingle. The closer or faster he comes to the desk, the more intense it is. Now imagine he starts side-stepping gradually as he advances towards the desk. The spider-sense will proportionally diminish because the danger is diminishing. Instead of walking straight into it, his legs will brush the side of it causing him to stumble and not trip. As he passes the threshold of danger and sidesteps enough that he won't touch it at all, the spider-sense tingle evaporates.
It is the information from the intensity of the spider-sense that allows for measuring the width of that desk. Now just apply that same idea to the height and length and there you go. That is enough information to guide his way through the dark. Now, it is very important to not confuse this with radar sense. Spidey does not carefully measure the intensity of the tingle, then calculate that into distance and units of measurement and then consciously adjusts the way he moves. The measurement is instinctual and he adjusts instantaneously through arachnid reflexes.
Gerry Conway further explains this in the highlighted caption. As you can see, the idea that Spidey gets a picture in his head of whats around him, then reacts to what he knows... is the furthest idea of spider-sense there is. It is much more appropriate to say that his body reacts instinctually and unconsciously to what he can't perceive. Trust the writer of 'The Death of Gwen Stacy.' Trust me.
The previous Metalmanx scan is either from an Ultimate Spiderman book or some comic that came out after the Spiderman movie. Movie spider-sense is 360 perception of everything and accelerated recognition of time. In other words, Peter can see everything and everything slows down in his eyes. You can see this when he dodges Flash's arm and wonders, "Huh." That is movie spider-sense and somehow it crept into a comic book underneath an editor's nose. Case closed. Read the Conway scans and if you're not satisfied, read the 'Civil War' scan. Nuff said.
At the same time, one could argue that after years and years and years of practice using his spider-sense, it very does "paint a picture" for him. He receives a certian, specific type of buzzing depending on the danger/obstruction. After numerous years of him reacting to these buzzes, I feel that it is VERY SAFE to say that Peter knows exactly what each specific buzz does now. Knowing what it is, it pains him a 360 degree image of what's going on around him (as some things would pose as obstacles, others as dangers). He then pieces this all together pretty much instantly to see what's going on around him. Would you disagree? Probably, but I felt I should ask anyway.
In fact, this makes perfect sense.
And why, exactly, am I to trust you? Or Gerry Conway for that matter? Sure, he wrote "The Death of Gwen Stacy", and that's awesome. But really, what makes him more reliable than the other writers who have also written dozens, if not in the hundred(s) of Spider-Man comics themselves? Does that make everything Gerry hasn't written completely incorrect? No. Powers fluctuate over time, and they also evolve.
And, it's not always an instinctful move. There are times when he just utilizes the spider-sense to make a conscious effort, one that he controls completely, not led by instinct. Same reason why he can ignore it if he wants to.
Let's not try to discredit the other, shall we? Makes you look bad. The scan I posted is from a 616 mainstream Spidey comic, NOT ULTIMATE. Just because it was in the movie, doesn't mean that the writers are going to use it, my friend.
Seriously, fool, calm down and get off Gerry Conway's nuts. You're taking this whole thing WAY too seriously. It's just a comic book character, and you're acting like it's dogmatic or something.
Writers vary. We've seen this a hundred times. However, fighters on THIS forum fight to the BEST of their ability. That means, Spiderman's spidersense can give him 360 degree vision. Obviously Spiderman being unsure of what a threat is, is NOT the best of his ability.
Take a chill pill, man. Jesus H.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Not according to that Spidey sense profile we're both so fond of(my sig). The weapons Bats has should set it off. & If Spidey gets close to bumping into him
I'm ashamed of you Soljer. Spidey sense is not anything like radar sense. Spidey sense is precognition of danger and where its coming from and nothing more. It doesn't paint anything. Batman can absolutely hide from Spiderman if he doesn't plan on attacking him.
Originally posted by brainchild81I agree with you. If Batman was considering his options in attacking him, Spidey would sense it, even though Batman was not at that moment going to attack him. You're absolutely right. And the same thing occurs if Spidey was going to bump into him. I was thinking more of if Batman had no intention to attack him, his spidey sense wouldn't go off, just as if he's fighting side by side with Daredevil, DD's billy clubs wouldn't set off his spidey sense. But in a KMC fight, even if Batman was just hiding and waiting, he's still thinking about putting the whupping on Sipderman, and that evil intent is mroe than enough for his spider-sense to go off. So, in the end, you're still absolutely right. Although, the spider-sense in the dark is kind of a moot point, since Spiderman actually has nightvision as a result of his changes in 'The Other.'
Not according to that Spidey sense profile we're both so fond of(my sig). The weapons Bats has should set it off. & If Spidey gets close to bumping into him
Originally posted by MetalmanxIf you reread what I said, I stated it is EITHER from an Ultimate Spidey comic OR a comic after the Spiderman movie. If it is not the former, its the latter and would not discredit you in the least. Don't ignore the second half of my sentence, shall we? Makes you look bad. And I still would like to know what comic that came from.
Let's not try to discredit the other, shall we? Makes you look bad. The scan I posted is from a 616 mainstream Spidey comic, NOT ULTIMATE. Just because it was in the movie, doesn't mean that the writers are going to use it, my friend.
Originally posted by SoljerNo, its quite simple. You already chose your standard Soljer, the more current depiction counts. That's exactly what you said. I showed you a scan of a more current depiction. Deal with it. BTW, nowhere in my last post did I call you names. So if anybody needs to calm down, it's you. Where is all this righteous indignation coming from? Does it come from the fact that I took your argument, by your standards and turned it on it's a$$? You want me to do it more nicely, fine. 'Kick in the nuts' was a term for beating your argument. If you're actually picturing me getting all hot and bothered while typing, I can assure you, I am not.
Seriously, fool, calm down and get off Gerry Conway's nuts. You're taking this whole thing WAY too seriously. It's just a comic book character, and you're acting like it's dogmatic or something.Writers vary. We've seen this a hundred times. However, fighters on THIS forum fight to the BEST of their ability. That means, Spiderman's spidersense can give him 360 degree vision. Obviously Spiderman being unsure of what a threat is, is NOT the best of his ability.
Take a chill pill, man. Jesus H.
I was seriously annoyed that Marvel let that utter crappage through. It's worse than writers making the mistake that Cap's shield is adamantium/vibranium alloy. That, at the least, is understandable. This was not and I guarantee its basis was from the Spiderman movie. I was also disappointed that you considered it to be true because from what posts I can gather of yours, I consider you to be very knowledgeable and reasonable. You should have known better than that, hence the poking fun at you. The 'intensity' of my posts was to make sure with finality that nobody considers spidey-sense to be radar sense. It just downright is not. And I'm not going to waste time explaining it to other individuals adopting that theory when I can take a definitive, hard-line stance now and stamp it out of people's heads.
Chill enough for you? Sweet. Debate over. And now, so that you can see it is not in caps: Spidey sense is not radar sense.
Come to think of it, Batman could win; this depending if they start off from somewhat of a distance. To get enough force to knock bats spine out, spidey would have to actually try to use a good amount of his strength which would be a slower punch. Like a Spider jab is faster than a Spider knock your spine jab, so maybe bats could not get connected so much, oh and if the Spider hits bat, his suit will protect him some what. If the Spider hits bat in the face with full strength(Assuming he connects) then Bats jaw falls off.
Anyway, Close up Spider wins 8/10. Some distance then Bats trhows his balls at Spiderman(Gas balls) Sorry but Spider can't dodge air. Bats always have a couple and could throw them side ways to cover an area. Spider could try to start the fight off with Spider web but Bat equipment could blow it up befor eit hits him.
Just saying, Bat could win once you think of his bat ears being so pointy.....