Originally posted by DigiMark007
Tactical skill IS skill. How else are we to define skill? If it's H2H prowess, all that is, is making the most of your body in various situations. Tactics. And MN'er runs circles around the three you mentioned in the tactics department. I'm not entirely familiar with Backlash's physical stats, though Zealot makes up some of the difference by being comfortably above peak human. Mn'er is too, btw, but I'd say she's a touch > him in raw physical stats....so it's closer.So are we basing this opinion on the 3 scans on the last page? The scans that showed Mn'er having the upper hand and Grifter sneaking a shot in with a concealed weapon? With an inconclusive outcome? If so, it's an incomplete estimation at best, and plain false at worst. If you're allowed to do that, then I can take any one of the numerous scans that place MN'er well above street-levelers in terms of physical stats and tactics/skill, and use that to say the exact opposite.
So, as before, the only thing that keeps Wade in this fight is healing. He's skilled, no doubt. But not as much as Mn'er.
A tactical mind is A skill, but it doesn't necessarily have any direct correlation with combat skill. I mean being a master at chess doesn't translate into being a great fighter. Sure he can see a million scenarios in his head... but he still has to get the person he is fighting to play into a scenario that benefits him. I just don't see Midnighter as being as skilled as Wade; I mean didn't Nemesis pretty much stomped both Midnighter and Hawksmoor into the ground at the same time?
Backlash is pretty even with Zealot physically. He managed to stalemate her in a fight before she busted out swords... but then again... Grifter worked him over in melee.
Also... I remember Midnighter went to fight some guy, who managed to turn of Midnighter's super powers. They guy totally kicked Midnighter's ass. Midnighter was like "You are using super powers," the guy responded "No, I'm using ju jutsu and leverage." Or something like that. Midnighter isn't that skilled, certainly not on Wade's level.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_14.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/midnighter024.jpg
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has kicked a guys head off before. Shang Chi is ripped a guys head off before. It is something that only happens to fodder.Honestly, even in Wildstorm Universe, I can't see Midnighter taking the majority from guys like Zealot or Agent Orange. He isn't that strong or fast and healing factor just isn't that hot. Deadpool would crush him IMO.
****ing
way
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/stormwatch_ta_06_pg_14.jpg
But MNs powers aren't off in this fight. How is that relevant?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/midnighter024.jpg
Wade wouldn't try that even if he knew about it.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A tactical mind is A skill, but it doesn't necessarily have any direct correlation with combat skill. I mean being a master at chess doesn't translate into being a great fighter. Sure he can see a million scenarios in his head... but he still has to get the person he is fighting to play into a scenario that benefits him. I just don't see Midnighter as being as skilled as Wade; I mean didn't Nemesis pretty much stomped both Midnighter and Hawksmoor into the ground at the same time?
The person always follow one of the scenarios he expects that's why he runs thousands of them. A few showing where he's beaten in and to hand don't contradict dozens.
Nemesis could see the future couldn't he?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A tactical mind is A skill, but it doesn't necessarily have any direct correlation with combat skill. I mean being a master at chess doesn't translate into being a great fighter. Sure he can see a million scenarios in his head... but he still has to get the person he is fighting to play into a scenario that benefits him. I just don't see Midnighter as being as skilled as Wade; I mean didn't Nemesis pretty much stomped both Midnighter and Hawksmoor into the ground at the same time?Backlash is pretty even with Zealot physically. He managed to stalemate her in a fight before she busted out swords... but then again... Grifter worked him over in melee.
Being a chess player doesn't make one a great fighter, but it's a laughably flawed analogy. They aren't playing chess. They're fighting. MN'er has FIGHTING tactics, which is just another name for skill. For the analogy to work you'd have to compare playing chess to something more physical involving the same skill set. But your analogy was more akin to "well, he can swim well, but that doesn't make him a better fighter." Seriously, same amount of connection.
😬
Also, who's Nemesis? If it happened, I've read it, but I have a hard time remembering all the B-listers.
...
I'll also co-sign what Sym said. And btw, the "someone has to attack Mn'er first" has been refuted by an insane number of fights where he initiates the fight and does just fine.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But MNs powers aren't off in this fight. How is that relevant?
With out his powers he got his ass kicked by a peak human MA. Digi was argueing that Midnighter was more skilled than Deadpool (who is extremely skillled), and if MN really was that skilled he would have at least been able to put up a fight. The guy totally out classed Midnighter based purely on his combat skill, so much so that MN thought he was superhuman.
Do you think that Jukko is a super MA that would railed through Batman or DD? No? Me either. In that case MN, really can't be that skilled. Even with out his enhancements he should be AT LEAST peak human, and he should still remember all his combat training. He didn't even put up a fight.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wade wouldn't try that even if he knew about it.
True
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The person always follow one of the scenarios he expects that's why he runs thousands of them. A few showing where he's beaten in and to hand don't contradict dozens.
Yes and what is to say the don't fallow one of the scenarios where Midnighter loses? They have free will after all. Midnighter knows what an opponent MIGHT do, not what the will do.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Nemesis could see the future couldn't he?
Nemesis is a chick.
MN'ers combat implants are part of his skill, srank. Take them out and I'd be happy to give this in a curbstomp to Wade. But why are you trying to argue that he doesn't have them? He does, and they're a gigantic advantage.
Also, none of us have free will and you still haven't told us who Nemesis is, just her gender.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
MN'ers combat implants are part of his skill, srank. Take them out and I'd be happy to give this in a curbstomp to Wade. But why are you trying to argue that he doesn't have them? He does, and they're a gigantic advantage.Also, none of us have free will and you still haven't told us who Nemesis is, just her gender.
None of his implants should have any direct correlation with martial skill. He has superhuman abilities across the board and a fight analysis ability, even with out those he should still retain his martial arts abilities and combat skills.
Opps sorry. I must have been writing my last post as you posted, didn't see the question about who Nemesis is. She is a Coda warrior trained by Zealot. She is an empath.
And all of us have free will. If we didn't... Midnighter would only see one scenario. 😉
Originally posted by Scoobless
Really not the place for this discussion (as you should know) so let's just agree that you're wrong and leave it at that.🙂
I just wanted to get in a philosophical shot amongst the amusing-but-subjective DP/MN'er stuff. Nice find though.
😉
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And all of us have free will. If we didn't... Midnighter would only see one scenario. 😉
Ah, you misunderstand the nature of determinism. But as Scoobless said, this is not the place...
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
None of his implants should have any direct correlation with martial skill. He has superhuman abilities across the board and a fight analysis ability, even with out those he should still retain his martial arts abilities and combat skills.Opps sorry. I must have been writing my last post as you posted, didn't see the question about who Nemesis is. She is a Coda warrior trained by Zealot. She is an empath.
And all of us have free will. If we didn't... Midnighter would only see one scenario. 😉
And can use her empathy to predict enemies' attacks. Also has one of teh uberest pure close combat weapons- she's a character who can pretty much gut Wolverine without any troubles or cut his head off- Engine of Creation swords cut through anything as long as it's matter- including Mr. Majestic.
Originally posted by jinzin
Doesn't/wouldn't Deadpools unpredictability and insanity damn near nullify Midnighter's ability anyways?Meh, DP has way too high a damage soak IMO. He can take most anything MNr can throw at him and draw him in for the finish. 😬
Originally posted by llagrokMidnighter has never had his abilities nullified by unpredictability or insanity on-panel. Seth was categorically insane and Midnighter could predict his moves. And no, it didn't help him defeat Seth, but Seth tore through the entire Authority as a team-buster. Deadpool managed to outdo Taskmaster with his unpredictability and insanity, but Taskmaster ain't no Midnighter. It's an x-factor, not enough for Deadpool to take a majority.
That's probably the most likely outcome, even IF Midnighter predicts all of Deadpool's moves for a while.
Midnighter's only been stomped on by insanely strong and fast opponents OR when his enhancements had been turned off. Deadpool's not as strong and fast as those opponents. Deadpool could not turn off his enhancements. According to common knowledge rule, Deadpool wouldn't even know that Midnighter's powers don't work if you failed to make a move. So that lil weak spot in Midnighter's abilities has little chance of ever coming into play. But Midnighter's abilities allow him to see Deadpool's enhancements at a glance. And ripping off Deadpool's head with his staff, hands, or standard weapons is a win, despite Deadpool's virtual immortality.
Midnighter 7/10. Deadpool's unpredictability and insanity count for 1, otherwise it'd be 8/10.
