Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ok. If that's your opinion, fine. I happen to think balance is not just about good and evil. I think balance is above that. Now. I'm going to ask you a question:"If balance is about good and evil. Why did LT do nothing to Thanos when he killed half the universe, which is about an evil act as you could ever accomplish?"
I'm sure it is because it would end the series. 😉 and Thanos had the right to do so or something.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666Ok, now you are qualifying your answer.
I meant that in power they are roughly equal of course they are diffrent and also similar at the same time because one is the others rip off.
Spectre's power = Living Tribunal's power.
Finally. I have led you exactly where I wanted you to go. That in itself, is enough. If you want, you can answer this point then, "If Spectre judges good and evil, what about those who are above the concepts of good and evil?" You don't have to answer, because I want rewmac to answer my previous question, which bears directly on this. I'm satisfied that you have reassessed your position and qualified what you stated.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ok. If that's your opinion, fine. I happen to think balance is not just about good and evil. I think balance is above that. Now. I'm going to ask you a question:"If balance is about good and evil. Why did LT do nothing to Thanos when he killed half the universe, which is about an evil act as you could ever accomplish?"
Evil and Good is just a point of view. And Good and Evil goes together with power. The universe for LT is a little concern. He can do or undo things which are beneath him.
As Rewmac said, Good and Evil is a point of view.
When Thanos wiped out half of the universe to try impres Lady Death, he probably thought this was Good as he had a reason for it.
It is like killing someone with a family, a wife and kids.
But they are a serial killer, it has good points and bad points to it the way you look at it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ok, now you are qualifying your answer.Spectre's power = Living Tribunal's power.
Finally. I have led you exactly where I wanted you to go. That in itself, is enough. If you want, you can answer this point then, "If Spectre judges good and evil, what about those who are above the concepts of good and evil?" You don't have to answer, because I want rewmac to answer my previous question, which bears directly on this. I'm satisfied that you have reassessed your position and qualified what you stated.
Um. I don't understand your point of view. I'm not being sarcastic, I
m just not sure how your answer bears on my question.
To be honest, I think your agreeing with me. Evil and good are just abstract points of view, beneath the LT's notice. He only cares about balance. Spectre himself cares about good and evil. Evil is not beneath his notice, in fact, definitions of good and evil control how he plays out his role. He has to wreak vengeance upon evildoers. When Eclipso skews his view of what 'good vs. evil' means, by saying disorder is evil and magic is all about disorder, Spectre goes for it. Now we obviously see that disorder is not evil, because God got pissed off at Spectre for attacking magic.
But I'm not going to put words into your mouth. I'm going to ask for a clarification. What did you mean?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Um. I don't understand your point of view. I'm not being sarcastic, I
m just not sure how your answer bears on my question.To be honest, I think your agreeing with me. Evil and good are just abstract points of view, beneath the LT's notice. He only cares about balance. Spectre himself cares about good and evil. Evil is not beneath his notice, in fact, definitions of good and evil control how he plays out his role. He has to wreak vengeance upon evildoers. When Eclipso skews his view of what 'good vs. evil' means, by saying disorder is evil and magic is all about disorder, Spectre goes for it. Now we obviously see that disorder is not evil, because God got pissed off at Spectre for attacking magic.
But I'm not going to put words into your mouth. I'm going to ask for a clarification. What did you mean?
Originally posted by illadelph12Spectre's role should not be so simply stated. He doesn't pick a point of view. He picks between Good and Evil, not a standard to be easily scoffed at.
So Spectre enforces a point of view, whereas LT protects what is inherrent to keeping existence balanced?
If Thanos said to the Spectre, "Look. What I'm doing, is just replacing Eternity with myself. If I do it by killing everybody, what does it matter?"
Spectre's response, "It is evil. And you deserve Wrath and punishment."
Living Tribunal responded, "Yeah. I don't care. If Thanos becomes Eternity, I don't care what he did. As long as he does not endanger all of existence by being mentally unstable, like Adam Warlock."
Originally posted by Sub_MarinerI will disagree with you. Thanos was doing evil. He knew it. He was fulfilling his selfish desire to win Death's love and didn't care about all the people he was destroying. And your other example is really horrible to stomach to be honest. I know that's not your intent, but come up with something else. I don't see any good coming out of a person killing someone with a family, wife and kids.
As Rewmac said, Good and Evil is a point of view.When Thanos wiped out half of the universe to try impres Lady Death, he probably thought this was Good as he had a reason for it.
It is like killing someone with a family, a wife and kids.
But they are a serial killer, it has good points and bad points to it the way you look at it.
Either way, this isn't what my side-debate with juggy666 and rewmac is about. I'm nto trying to define Good vs. Evil. What I am reinforcing, is the idea that Living Tribunal does not judge based on concepts of Good and Evil. He is above that. Spectre is not above Good and Evil. Everything he does is based on Good and Evil. He punishes Evil. He is not above it. Therefore, that is why Spectre is not equal to LT.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I will disagree with you. Thanos was doing evil. He knew it. He was fulfilling his selfish desire to win Death's love and didn't care about all the people he was destroying. And your other example is really horrible to stomach to be honest. I know that's not your intent, but come up with something else. I don't see any good coming out of a person killing someone with a family, wife and kids.
No, for some reasons he believed to be good. He killed to win something he had longed wanted, he thought this was good.
The person was a serial killer, a person kills him, although he has a wife and kids, you have saved and avenged many lives.
Ok, you are poor but can afford to live and such, the old lady next door is about to be kicked out of her flat. You rob a store to try and get the lady some money, through robbing the store the owner goes bankrupt. The old woman gets to keep her flat, but another man lost his job.
Sorry, best one off the top of my head.
Originally posted by illadelph12Let me spin something out of this. Can we make comparisons here? What did Spectre think he was doing when he was manipulated by Eclipso? I don't want to over-simplify it, but essentially, Spectre WAS trying to do what LT does. He was trying to judge Balance.
It was still words, regardless of who spoke. And besides that, Alexander Luthor was the composer of the speech. There was no coersion or use of power on Eclipso's part. Eclipso just double talked the Spectre into making a catastrophic error.
His mission in judging good and evil was perverted. He made the mistake of believing good = balance and evil = disorder. He then equated magic with disorder. Now look at the end result. For all of Spectre's actions, in the end, God got pissed off. Spectre was incorrect. He was supposed to judge good and evil, not balance and disorder.
So what have we learned from this? Spectre's purpose is to follow a standard. That standard is good and evil, not balance and disorder. When Spectre tried to do the latter, God got angry. Therefore, no matter how you try to spin good and evil as eqauting to balance, you're making the SAME mistake Spectre was. They are not so equatable. 'Day of Vengeance' and 'Infinite Crisis' taught us that.
Spectre is NOT the same as Living Tribunal. Spectre judges based on concepts of good and evil, and when he tried to equate good and evil with balance and disorder, God pimpslapped him. Living Tribunal judges based on cosmic balance, he is above concepts of good and evil, clearly illustrated when he let Thanos off the hook.
Spectre can stop time as shown here:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/927/timestopum7.jpg
Why not just do this to these 2?
Or even this?
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4197/phantomstranger2sc6.jpg
Although he gets beat in the end, he holds against Gods SON.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7788/spectre19931012if7.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8840/spectre19931013bj3.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/5512/spectre19931016al6.jpg
Scans by Skeets.
