Originally posted by leonidas
the problem i have with the avatars are their 'convenience'. i want to see what the 'real' darkseid is capable of nowadays. retconning those losses to avatars is the same thing marvel did to thanos.those types of retcons are crap.
Agreed. I'm sure there could have been another way of handling those situations for both characters. Marvel did it well with Thanos the first time. He died...fine...but then was ressurected in a more powerful body by death. Simple, it made sense and didn't damage any prior history to the character or his opponents.
Originally posted by leonidas
and i agree with val -- actually a GREAT comparison val! -- if the bracelets can deflect it, the hammer definitely has a chance to absorb or block it.
Honestly I see it as pears and oranges. It depends on what kind of blast. If Darky is simply laser blasting...then sure...I don't see any reason the hammer couldn't deflect or absorb it. If it's the real omega effect where things are removed from existence? Thor and Mjolnir are simply....gone.
Originally posted by leonidas
and someone said that supes has something=godblast?
Torquasm Vo.
Originally posted by leonidas
uh, no. least not imo. supes has nothing in his arsenal to trump a godblast, i'm afraid. unfettered heat vision is NOT a magical blast capable of driving away galactus . . .
The situations where godblasts and Vo have been used are remarkably similar. Particulary in the cases of Galan and Dominus.
On another note...if a godblast really scares galactus then Odin or Rune King Thor should be whoopin G's ass like no tomorrow...
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindI agree with this 100%. Thanos retconning was not a retconning. It didn't purport to up-end any preconceptions or history that had already been established. It turned Thanos into a badass and he's remained a badass to date. Darkseid... they made an excuse for his losing.
Agreed. I'm sure there could have been another way of handling those situations for both characters. Marvel did it well with Thanos the first time. He died...fine...but then was ressurected in a more powerful body by death. Simple, it made sense and didn't damage any prior history to the character or his opponents.
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindThe OE Beam description that removes objects from existence is taken from the depiction of the avatars' powers, since purportedly, their appearances and words and thoughts are all that we know. The avatars' OE Beams can't destroy WW bracelets, they shouldn't destroy Mjolnir. But apparently, we don't know what the real OE Beams can do, since we've never actually seen them in action. How preposterous.
Honestly I see it as pears and oranges. It depends on what kind of blast. If Darky is simply laser blasting...then sure...I don't see any reason the hammer couldn't deflect or absorb it. If it's the real omega effect where things are removed from existence? Thor and Mjolnir are simply....gone.
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindI thought T-Vo can only be used when his opponent either challenges or steps into Superman's mental plane. From the scans I've seen, Superman cannot force an opponent into T-Vo. Or can he? If he can, I'd like to see a scan of him forcing opponents into T-Vo. I know once they're in, they can't get out, but I'm pretty sure if someone just doesn't step into the mental plane, T-Vo is useless. I think godblast only drives off superweak Galactus, but yeah, Odinforce and RKT brought to bear on superweak Galactus? Overkill.
The situations where godblasts and Vo have been used are remarkably similar. Particulary in the cases of Galan and Dominus.On another note...if a godblast really scares galactus then Odin or Rune King Thor should be whoopin G's ass like no tomorrow...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind Honestly I see it as pears and oranges. It depends on what kind of blast. If Darky is simply laser blasting...then sure...I don't see any reason the hammer couldn't deflect or absorb it. If it's the real omega effect where things are removed from existence? Thor and Mjolnir are simply....gone.
how do we know he wasn't trying to make supes and ww . . . disappear from existence? the way the oe have been portrayed recently lead me to believe there is at least an even chance mjollnir can block or absorb them.
Torquasm Vo.
grr . . . i hate t-vo. g also has enormous tp abilities himself so perhaps he could defend himself against it. given the pis nature of t-vo i suppose supes could use it, but . . . it still doesn't nor will it ever sit very well with me i'm afraid . . . 🙁
On another note...if a godblast really scares galactus then Odin or Rune King Thor should be whoopin G's ass like no tomorrow...
i agree. odin's power, because he is simply a 'skyfather', is often terribly underrated though he probably has more impressive feats in his history than galactus does. given the way g jobs to practically everyone, odin beating galactus would NOT be very surprising. 🙁
Originally posted by leonidas
how do we know he wasn't trying to make supes and ww . . . disappear from existence? the way the oe have been portrayed recently lead me to believe there is at least an even chance mjollnir can block or absorb them.
I can understand blocking the tracers...but the actual effect itself? Comparing Mjolnir to Diana's bracelets are completely apples and oranges.
Originally posted by leonidas
grr . . . i hate t-vo. g also has enormous tp abilities himself so perhaps he could defend himself against it. given the pis nature of t-vo i suppose supes could use it, but . . . it still doesn't nor will it ever sit very well with me i'm afraid . . . 🙁
Dominus creates multiple realities out of thoughts. I doubt Big G can compare to that. Plus I doubt he would try and defend himself from it anymore than he tried to defend himself from Thor's godblast.
Maybe Terry Bogard could have power geysered Galactus into submission as well. 😆
Originally posted by leonidas
i agree. odin's power, because he is simply a 'skyfather', is often terribly underrated though he probably has more impressive feats in his history than galactus does. given the way g jobs to practically everyone, odin beating galactus would NOT be very surprising. 🙁
Thor is basically a herald to Odin...Mjolnir being a conduit of sorts for Odins power... so directly then Odin should be able to do a lot worse to Big G.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I thought T-Vo can only be used when his opponent either challenges or steps into Superman's mental plane. From the scans I've seen, Superman cannot force an opponent into T-Vo. Or can he? If he can, I'd like to see a scan of him forcing opponents into T-Vo. I know once they're in, they can't get out, but I'm pretty sure if someone just doesn't step into the mental plane, T-Vo is useless. I think godblast only drives off superweak Galactus, but yeah, Odinforce and RKT brought to bear on superweak Galactus? Overkill.
He forced Lois Lane, Luthor, a Superman robot, and Dominus into it all at the same time.
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindYou seem to know a lot about T-Vo. I've seen scans, but not much by way of context. Can you give me your "Torquasm-Vo for Dummies" lesson? Like, history, when and how he's used it... If you provide scans or links, you get extra brownies too.
He forced Lois Lane, Luthor, a Superman robot, and Dominus into it all at the same time.
Originally posted by leonidas
the only problem i have with what lord s said above is that while the omega effect is obviously famously powerful and generally considered to be 'unstoppable', i've never understood WHY it is so powerful. there is no apparent tie to the source (unless recently shown . . .??)
It's the "dark side" of The Source's energies. This has been stated a few times.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I can understand blocking the tracers...but the actual effect itself? Comparing Mjolnir to Diana's bracelets are completely apples and oranges.
WW blocked a heat blast that he was sending at Superman to turn him to "less" than the "ash" he thought they'd turned Supergirl to. Mjolnor could block a heat blast since it can block Odin's blasts. But if he turned the beams to wipeout and set them on the hammer, I don't think it could resist.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I can understand blocking the tracers...but the actual effect itself? Comparing Mjolnir to Diana's bracelets are completely apples and oranges.
only in that the bracers are KNOWN for their defensive abilities. thor's hammer is known for its offense, but it has blocked, handled and absorbed almost every type of power in the MU. or thor could perhaps simply absorb seid's life force, ala loki and the space vamp.
Dominus creates multiple realities out of thoughts. I doubt Big G can compare to that. Plus I doubt he would try and defend himself from it anymore than he tried to defend himself from Thor's godblast.
meh, i don't know enough about dominus (haven't read the arcs) to have this debate with you -- maybe t-vo is a match for godblast, i don't know. i do know i dislike the convenience of the ability and that i would love to see some sort of 'official' explanation for what it is.
Thor is basically a herald to Odin...Mjolnir being a conduit of sorts for Odins power... so directly then Odin should be able to do a lot worse to Big G. [/B]
i've said that many times. odin can do a lot to a LOT of people. his high feats are pretty ridiculous. he has low ones though that hurt him.
as for the whole 'wiping out' effect of the oe -- when's the last time he used that ability on anyone of substance? the oe has taken a big downward dip in recent years. it didn't bother supes (even when it HAS hit him) it didn't get past the bracers, it didn't kill doomsday and even in that silly xover, it did nothing to galactus.
i still say this fight is pretty damn even.
T-Vo explanation and scans please. One of you guys must have it. I could have sworn a person had to step into the mental plane of combat first, kind of like how Professor X, Jean Grey and Cable used to go to that... err... crap. Forgot what it was...
....
....
God dammit. This is going to annoy me all day now. Psi-something? Psychic plane? It isn't Astral Plane...
Originally posted by leonidas
only in that the bracers are KNOWN for their defensive abilities. thor's hammer is known for its offense, but it has blocked, handled and absorbed almost every type of power in the MU. or thor could perhaps simply absorb seid's life force, ala loki and the space vamp.
I doubt Thor could suck out the lifeforce of a being in a class higher than he is in. For example...I doubt he could pull that off on Odin, Zeus, Galactus, or Darkseid.
Darky had no problem getting rid of Thor and the rest of the league/Avengers in their xover with the beams.
Originally posted by leonidas
meh, i don't know enough about dominus (haven't read the arcs) to have this debate with you -- maybe t-vo is a match for godblast, i don't know. i do know i dislike the convenience of the ability and that i would love to see some sort of 'official' explanation for what it is.
What more is there to know? Supes sucks you into an arena of his own creation and you don't have a choice. While in there he has reality control and access to your powerset.
He's also used it to enhance his defense to things, project illusions, heal, and overload synapses.
The godblast is...a magical blast.
Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
WW blocked a heat blast that he was sending at Superman to turn him to "less" than the "ash" he thought they'd turned Supergirl to. Mjolnor could block a heat blast since it can block Odin's blasts. But if he turned the beams to wipeout and set them on the hammer, I don't think it could resist.
Agreed.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
He also used a diff. form of it against Adversary. Advesary didn't even know he was using it.
Agreed.