Thor vs Darkseid

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
[B]I doubt Thor could suck out the lifeforce of a being in a class higher than he is in. For example...I doubt he could pull that off on Odin, Zeus, Galactus, or Darkseid.

a darkseid avatar is no where near those levels.

What more is there to know? Supes sucks you into an arena of his own creation and you don't have a choice. While in there he has reality control and access to your powerset.

so he could t-vo spectre or asmodel and get their powers and beat them both just like that? i don't think so, avy . . . t-vo is still too unproven for me so i don't factor it in when i consider superman battles. his normal powerset is plenty deep enough. arguing t-vo is like debating superman prime -- too much unknown to really be a valid and proveable point. at least based on what little i've seen of it.

The godblast is...a magical blast.

but a damn powerful one. 😉

Originally posted by leonidas
a darkseid avatar is no where near those levels.

Neither is Thor. The official time that they met though, it was obvious which was the more powerful one...and it wasn't Thor.

Originally posted by leonidas
so he could t-vo spectre or asmodel and get their powers and beat them both just like that? i don't think so, avy . . . t-vo is still too unproven for me so i don't factor it in when i consider superman battles. his normal powerset is plenty deep enough. arguing t-vo is like debating superman prime -- too much unknown to really be a valid and proveable point. at least based on what little i've seen of it.

I never said T-vo gives Superman an instant win over beings on those levels. I said it was a trump card like a Godblast...just a more versatile one.

I wouldn't compare Superman to God's wrath or the general of his army and near conqueror of heaven anyway. He hasn't been shown to use it on those levels.

Apparently...Cosmic beings ARE susceptible to it. There's quite a difference.

Originally posted by leonidas
but a damn powerful one. 😉

It's still just a blast.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Neither is Thor. The official time that they met though, it was obvious which was the more powerful one...and it wasn't Thor.

hmm, supes et al., didn't fare too well against a certain darkseid knock-off either. should we look too closely at that particular book . . .?

I never said T-vo gives Superman an instant win over beings on those levels. I said it was a trump card like a Godblast...just a more versatile one.

but that's how it sounds, avy. and that's why i dislike it. we don't know its limits (it seems limitless based on your descriptions and the times you bring it up in debates) so if we don't know its limits how can we argue fairly for OR against it? which is why is generally simply disregard it until it becomes more proven or at least until such time as a limit is demonstrated regarding it.

I wouldn't compare Superman to God's wrath or the general of his army and near conqueror of heaven anyway. He hasn't been shown to use it on those levels.

nor would i. but galactus is a different matter. g may not be spectre and maybe not asmodel (at least not at the levels we're discussing) but he's in that high cosmic class. could supes t-vo odin? darkseid? who knows because we've not seen it's limits. but just because we've not seen a limit (HAS it failed??) doesn't mean we can blankly state it can be used to defeat a high level cosmic like galactus or those i mentioned above.

It's still just a blast. [/B]

but a really powerful one. 🙂

Can you show me scans or links of the context of T-Vo. Let me be clear, I don't want self-proclaimed statements, I want to see where Superman forces people into T-Vo. I also want to see if it was a one time thing, because he should have used it against SPB, surely would have been easier.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, supes et al., didn't fare too well against a certain darkseid knock-off either. should we look too closely at that particular book . . .?

In a recent book? Show and tell. I've seen the old stuff.

Originally posted by leonidas
but that's how it sounds, avy. and that's why i dislike it. we don't know its limits (it seems limitless based on your descriptions and the times you bring it up in debates) so if we don't know its limits how can we argue fairly for OR against it? which is why is generally simply disregard it until it becomes more proven or at least until such time as a limit is demonstrated regarding it.

That's why I normally keep it within the limits of herald based characters if I'm debating it seriously.

Originally posted by leonidas
nor would i. but galactus is a different matter. g may not be spectre and maybe not asmodel (at least not at the levels we're discussing) but he's in that high cosmic class. could supes t-vo odin? darkseid? who knows because we've not seen it's limits. but just because we've not seen a limit (HAS it failed??) doesn't mean we can blankly state it can be used to defeat a high level cosmic like galactus or those i mentioned above.

You're pretty high level when you can "delete" beings from existence altogether...and for all intents and purposes that is what Superman used it against.

To this point it hasn't failed him BUT it doesn't give him an instant win against high level opponents. Maybe that is what people are burning about?

If that is the case, once again I'll state it.
It's NOT an instant win against Skyfather and up opponents.
It IS very handy against herald levelers and below.

Originally posted by leonidas
but a really powerful one. 🙂

It would tickle SBP. 😈

Yarrrrrrrrr! Someone give me scans and context and explanation of T-Vo, please!!!!

Bump. I now know about T-Vo. But apparently, this thread was grappling with the idea that the Darkseid that got his OE deflected by Wonder Woman's bracelets was an avatar. Which we now know is untrue. Also, the thread starter is focusing on how either opponent would take the other's strongest blast, i.e. Omega Effect or Godblast (or even Antiforce Blast - absorbing opponent's energy and amplifying it back at them). Discuss.

Originally posted by leonidas
[B]😂

sorry, snoop -- i certainly wasn't directing my points at you. i agree -- retcons or jobbing -- BOTH suck.

about the avatars: the very idea is sort of ridiculous. by definition, an avatar is a HUMAN representation/incarnation of a god (buddha is one of the avatars of vishnu, for example) ds is definitely NOT human. and if the avatar HAS the oe, why would IT be 'watered down'? it's either the oe, or it isn't. 😬
[/quoite]
you're ignorant an Avatat is ANY manifestation of a trancendant being in the mortal REALM.

Therefore, the idea that the portrayals of Darksied up to date have been mere avatars is ENTIRELY consistent with the meaning of the term.
[quote]
i know no one has answers to these issues i've been raising, but they're just a couple of points that have always bugged me about darkseid and the way he is/has been, portrayed. if they had LEFT him as he had always been, and made the new gods direct descendents of the FIRST ever gods, i could understand WHY he would be more powerful than all the other pantheonic gods. as is, he is just . . . confusing.

Darkseid 7/10.

If Wonder Woman hadn't deflected the true Omega Effect... I would lean towards Darkseid also. As it stands... a skyfather artifact easily deflected the beams and Mjolnir is one of the penultimate skyfather artifacts in comics and has absorbed/deflected an impressive number of energy sources.

Originally posted by panthergod
He isn't and never hads been. He is kore powerful than any other Gods, but he's never been the most powerful God. Highfather is his equal, and Orion has his number in physical combat.

😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If Wonder Woman hadn't deflected the true Omega Effect... I would lean towards Darkseid also. As it stands... a skyfather artifact easily deflected the beams and Mjolnir is one of the penultimate skyfather artifacts in comics and has absorbed/deflected an impressive number of energy sources.

I think there's a clear difference between the beams Darkseid shot at Supes that were deflected by Wonder Woman and his omega effect, which by all accounts cannot be stopped by any physical barrier, the OE is supposed to be able to pass through dimensions or any physical barrier to erase or transport it's target.

So I get confused when WW's bracelets can even affect the path of the beams when Darkseid is projecting the OE.

edit: So unless they retconned the abilities of the OE I don't think Mjolnir is stopping the OE.

Originally posted by Allankles
I think there's a clear difference between the beams Darkseid shot at Supes that were deflected by Wonder Woman and his omega effect, which by all accounts cannot be stopped by any physical barrier, the OE is supposed to be able to pass through dimensions or any physical barrier to erase or transport it's target.

So I get confused when WW's bracelets can even affect the path of the beams when Darkseid is projecting the OE.

edit: So unless they retconned the abilities of the OE I don't think Mjolnir is stopping the OE.

Even if Thor deflects his beams though, what then?

Hit him in the face with his hammer

Jobberseid FTW

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Even if Thor deflects his beams though, what then?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Maybe deflect it back into his face. I'd suspect though that he'd absorb it into Mjolnir, amplify its energies a hundredfold and then fire it back as an Antiforce blast: