Darth Traya versus Darth Maul and Count Dooku

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
[b]Glentract's theories are just that, theories. His theory only contributes to the ineptitude of this thread. He has no concrete evidence to support him, other than Traya's inability to handle Sion and Nihilus ganging up on her. How exactly can he make an argument out of that?

It's true, Traya being able to use her instakill only in the Exile's presence is only a theory. But the idea that she can use it wherever she wants is also a theory.

And I have more than just herinability to handle Sion and Nihilus on my side. Why didn't she just go around and pwn all of the Jedi and Sith on her own? [/B]

Don't ask me. For all we know, you're right. But what you have is just a theory, and it may have simply been game mechanic that didn't allow her to slaughter Jedi/Sith everywhere.

But what you have is just a theory,

I already said that. Your theory is not better than mine.

and it may have simply been game mechanic that didn't allow her to slaughter Jedi/Sith everywhere.

What does game mechanic have to do with it at all?

No, here is the fact. You made this thread as a means of satisfying your pathetic KotoR-driven bias. That is made plain by the fact that you gave a KotoR-era character (Traya) an ability that [B]instantly kills its victim (!).

LOL! Its clear that you are getting pissed off over something so stupid. I made this thread because I was interested in the different theories as to whether the instantkill was 100% effective all the time. If I saw proof by someone, it would easily change my opinion.

Just how do you think that this fight was going to work? That Dooku and Maul would, somehow, be able to evade an attack that can instantly kill them (!), which is (incidentally) triggered by a wave of the hand?

Wow, apparently you do not understand the evidence of providing contrary proof. If someone can do it in this debate, I will happily conceede that Traya cannot always pull it off against the duo.

We all know that you are a poor debator, Zephiel. That becomes crystal clear when incompetent threads like this are made.

You're one to talk kid, you haven’t really shown yourself to be the best debater either. It seems that you have an unduly high opinion of your own "abilities" (debating on a Star Wars forum is not really much of an ability anyways), what with laying insults on others. But then again, that's what happens when you tuck your head in your ass.

Glentract's theories are just that, theories. His theory only contributes to the ineptitude of this thread. He has no concrete evidence to support him, other than Traya's inability to handle Sion and Nihilus ganging up on her. How exactly can he make an argument out of that?

Simple, if he provides proof via direct source or deductions. If I see anyone in this thread providing cogent proof, then I would concede. Obviously you are too much of a troll to realize this.

I'll answer for you. He can't. But, being an inept debator, you probably can relate.

It seems you have an inflated ego kid (which is obviously not deserved). I would recommend deflating it. First of all, I do not have time to read every single piece of Star Wars information, because I have other things to deal with it in real life and university. If anyone has information on Traya that disproves the instantkill being 100% likely in all situations, then I said I would concede.

Apparently you are only intent with trolling, so you decided not to consider any of what I typed. Go ahead though, it IS becoming mildly entertaining. Tauro!

I have a question!

I would like to know that if Traya's instantkill ability is so effective then why she did not tried that ability on Exile during the fight?

But what you have is just a theory, and it may have simply been game mechanic that didn't allow her to slaughter Jedi/Sith everywhere.

It has been shown in KOTOR II that Traya uses this ability in specific situations or perhaps on those individuals that can be easily killed by it.

It might be possible that instantkill ability is not effective against all kinds of odds.

Her encounter with Sion and Nihilus shows that Traya either failed to use this ability on them or it does not works on very powerful enemies.

Note: Story is always based on logic and Game Mechanics has nothing to do with it.

I have a question!

I would like to know that if Traya's instantkill ability is so effective then why she did not tried that ability on Exile during the fight?

The same reason that Nihilus was unable to drain the Exile. He is immune to it. Traya's ability appears to be identical to Nihilus's own, but hers is not on a planet-scale.

Game mechanics is not a logical point over here.

It has been shown in KOTOR II that Traya uses this ability in specific situations or perhaps on those individuals that can be easily killed by it.

It might be possible that instantkill ability is not effective against all kinds of odds.

Her encounter with Sion and Nihilus shows that Traya either failed to use this ability on them or it does not works on very powerful enemies.

Note: Story is always based on logic and Game Mechanics has nothing to do with it.

Note: Game mechanic is a point. Are we to presume that lightsabers are less effective than the ones shown in movies because they do not immediately kill its victim, nor do they amputate limbs? Some things are due to game mechanic, and are unexplained within the story.

As for the Nihilus and Sion encounter, it is quite possible that perhaps they simply caught her off guard, or Nihilus's presence kept her from utilizing it. He is, afterall, far more powerful in terms of draining the Force than she is.

As for you, Zephiel, be realistic. When have I ever claimed to be an excellent debator? My ego is just fine, though, I will say, people seem to mention me in terms of debating skills before they mention you.

Might wanna think about that before you presume otherwise.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have a question!

I would like to know that if Traya's [B]instantkill ability is so effective then why she did not tried that ability on Exile during the fight?
[/B]

OMG do you retards listen? She CANNOT use the instakill on the Exile because she's a WOUND IN THE FORCE . Nihlius tried to do the same thing to the Exile and IT DIDN'T WORK .

LOGICAL DEDUCTIONS

- The drain DOESN'T WORK on WOUNDS IN THE FORCE

- The drain WOULDN'T affect Nihlius or THE EXILE

- As the cut content showed the drain does NOT kill SION just slows him down some.

Hence, it would be USELESS to attempt it against either of these three people.

Ac, the cut content isn't canon. Other than that, you have the jist of it. Besides, it may just be possible that Sion's invincibility would make him able to resist it.

I was just showing what would have happened if they used the attack, also it could be the invincibility.

Originally posted by Escape81
[B]The same reason that Nihilus was unable to drain the Exile. He is immune to it. Traya's ability appears to be identical to Nihilus's own, but hers is not on a planet-scale.

Originally posted by Escape81
Note: Game mechanic is a point. Are we to presume that lightsabers are less effective than the ones shown in movies because they do not immediately kill its victim, nor do they amputate limbs? Some things are due to game mechanic, and are unexplained within the story.

Originally posted by Escape81
As for the Nihilus and Sion encounter, it is quite possible that perhaps they simply caught her off guard, or Nihilus's presence kept her from utilizing it. He is, afterall, far more powerful in terms of draining the Force than she is.

And we can only speculate here.

So, the arguement still remains.

OMG do you retards listen? She CANNOT use the instakill on the Exile because she's a WOUND IN THE FORCE . Nihlius tried to do the same thing to the Exile and IT DIDN'T WORK .

Game mechanics has nothing to do with story.

You misunderstand. Game mechanic does have to do with the story, and what occurs in the game mechanic cannot always be explained by the storyline itself. That's why game mechanic is not used effectively in debates. Because what happens in it cannot be explained the storyline.

A possibility perhaps but the problem is that we don't know enough details about this fight to base our comments on.

And we can only speculate here.

So, the arguement still remains.

Your points have been defeated. The argument may remain, but you've got nothing. So until then, it is over.

Stop calling other retards!

He has no right to do that, true, but you seem to have a habit of issuing commands, or statements that we here are supposed to accept blindly and respectively. That's not how it works.

Originally posted by Escape81
You misunderstand. Game mechanic does have to do with the story, and what occurs in the game mechanic cannot always be explained by the storyline itself. That's why game mechanic is not used effectively in debates. Because what happens in it cannot be explained the storyline.

Thus, Game mechanics are more associated with Gameplay then Story.

Story is about an event that we witness and it is more associated with logic and reasoning then actual gameplay.

You are actaully confusing Story with limitations of Game Mechanics.

Though our choices can influence Story but it has nothing to do with specific events of Story that are not in our control. Only "logic" is the best term to explain those events.

Originally posted by Escape81
Your points have been defeated. The argument may remain, but you've got nothing. So until then, it is over.

You can't prove that instantkill ability can kill anyone. You are just making an assumption regarding it.

Another assumption can be made here and that is their must be some kind of defence technique to counter instantkill ability.

Remember that Traya learned this ability from somewhere and those Jedi Masters easily fell because they knew no defence techniques against the Force Drain technique demonstrated by her and the worst part is that they never felt Traya's presence so they were also caught off-guard.

Originally posted by Escape81
He has no right to do that, true, but you seem to have a habit of issuing commands, or statements that we here are supposed to accept blindly and respectively. That's not how it works.

You're telling me to put osme facts on the table? I don't think you're one to talk as you almost never make any comments towars the topic at hand.

I'd tempted to laugh at this semi-implication, but I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, nor if you're making coherent conversation and not just irrelevant chatter.

The fact is that there are to many holes in the case for Traya being able to use her instakill for it to be taken seriously. Why didn't she use it on Nihilus when he and Sion were rebelling against her?

Nihilus cannot be drained, insofar as he's a hole in the force. We've been evidenced with what happens when one drains an empty hole, and it left Nihilus weaker and able to be defeated by the Exile and his posse.

I'd argue that she isn't quite clued to their intent. She knows somethings up; and she ignites her lightsabre when Sion does so, but she doesn't throw any force powers at them whatsoever. Then, Nihilus drains her and she gets tooled.

Why didn't she use it against Sion on Peragus?

I hardly think she was even wanting Sion to die. She has a vibroblade at the ready, and doesn't attempt to kill him when he has his back turned, she doesn't let off any force attacks at him whatsoever and when he ignites his sabre and she has a weapon at the ready; you'll notice that he swings as slowly as ever, and she doesn't even attempt to block him.

Why didn't she use it against the Exile on Malachor?

^ See above. One cannot drain a wound in the force without exponentially weakening yourself.

And the main problem I have with the idea that she can use it whenever she wants is that wouldn't have needed the Exile, or anyone else, (the people at the Trayus Academy) to accompish her goals if she was as powerful as that.

Why? Her primary goal was to destroy the force. How - pray tell - wouldn't she need the Exile for this? Furthermore, Traya's a manipulator, not a gun-ho fighter or flat-out warrior. She's far more stealthy and sneaky.

She killed the three greatest Jedi with a wave of her hand. One of them, Kavar, is believed to have been nearly as good as Malak in saber combat.

It's pretty clear that she demolishes them all in the force; evidenced by how she waltzes in, blasts all three to the ground and then slams Vrook back like a ragdoll. And how Kavar's lightsabre abilities are relevant to this fight, one will never know . . .

No one alive would be strong enough to stand against her. Why didn't she just go around and pwn all of the Jedi and Sith on her own?

Um, did you play the game; Glentract? Or did you accidentally miss the swathes of text that deal with this. She doesn't want to destroy the Jedi and Sith; she - ideally - wants to educate them. Furthermore, her ultimate goal is the destruction of the force. If she were so dedicated on destroying the two orders, why not destroy the source of their power instead of hunting them down one by one?

If you want to argue Traya can use her instakill you need to prove it.

On the contrary, you need to come up with some actual proof; not a load of re-hashed and fatally wrong assertions.