Oh, since when did he master those powers canonically? I've never seen a source to that.
Yoda was a prodgidy as well, actually he was the best in the order, where jedi were in their prime and there where OTHER saber prodgidies (Mace, Dooku) which Yoda also had defeated. Being a saber prodgidy isn't enough!
And knowing a force storm that killed some un-knowing, non-force sensetives isn't enough for me to belive Yoda will have a problem with it.
Originally posted by kamikz
Then I got it wrong. But I still don't really agree to that, but whatever.^
To kill enemies in such large numbers, you have to be very strong in the force and quicker then your enemies can see you.
The powers that I have mentioned are actually very useful when fighting large number of enemies.
Now, Bioware did not needed to spoon-feed us in the game that what powers Revan would choose by default. That choice is ours!
You have to logically think that to kill enemies in such large numbers, your skills, abilities and powers should be un-matched.
And this is not Yoda vs Revan scenario but Revan was no less then Yoda in knowledge of the force.
And Yoda never defeated Dooku in combat.
I stand by my point. Revan has better chance to succeed in the mentioned challenge!
Revan and Yoda both can get past the enemies. However, Revan's superiority in the Force will help him out here. However, Yoda's skill with the lightsaber is definately greater than Revan's. I believe both of them will reach the encryption area at the same time. Revan will win because in KOTOR he's shown the skill to crack down heavy codes.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You need to understand that Revan fought against a huge army of Sith including many Dark Jedi on Star Forge.To kill enemies in such large numbers, you have to be very strong in the force and quicker then your enemies can see you.
The powers that I have mentioned are actually very useful when fighting large number of enemies.
Now, Bioware did not needed to spoon-feed us in the game that what powers Revan would choose by default. That choice is ours!
You have to logically think that to kill enemies in such large numbers, your skills, abilities and powers should be un-matched.
And this is not Yoda vs Revan scenario but Revan was no less then Yoda in knowledge of the force.
And Yoda never defeated Dooku in combat.
I stand by my point. Revan has better chance to succeed in the mentioned challenge!
Can you tell me the size of that army? Revan also had team members with him.
And no, you don't need to be faster than they eye can see to defeat a large number of enemies, why would you? People have made that before, without being that fast. And you still haven't stated how you know those powers that Revan have is canon, if it is our choice then how would we know Revan's powers? It is our choice to give the Exile and Atton Rand powers to, but I doubt they'd have powers on par with Revan, we need proof!
Yoda did defeat Dooku, or would have, but he always escaped.
Revan was no less than Yoda in force knowledge? Lol? Yoda knew a defence to EVERY SINGLE dark side technique, and he knew every jedi technique, and had the most potential in the order (except Anakin) and was the strongest jedi to ever been produced in the order (Revan was also produced in the order). Please tell me how Revan could have the same force knowledge as Yoda.
And since when was he superior to Yoda in the force Prodigal?
Revan has shown extensive knowledge in the Force, knowing abilities such as Force Shield, Force Storm, Thought Bomb, etc. He taught Bane everything which made him strong. And as a Lightsider, Revan is more powerful than his Dark self. How can this be?
This is ONLY possibile if KOTOR is accurate. Think about it. You see Revan as this master of all these super-strong Dark Side techniques, and yet he is more powerful as the prodigal knight (hence my name lol).
Why? Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Revan has shown extensive knowledge in the Force, knowing abilities such as Force Shield, Force Storm, Thought Bomb, etc. He taught Bane everything which made him strong. And as a Lightsider, Revan is more powerful than his Dark self. How can this be?This is ONLY possibile if KOTOR is accurate. Think about it. You see Revan as this master of all these super-strong Dark Side techniques, and yet he is more powerful as the prodigal knight (hence my name lol).
Why? Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?
You deserve respect! Sir! 😎
You summed it all up very nicely!
Well kamikz! I think that you already got a good answer here!
And Kamikz, I did not had time to count the number of troops and Dark Jedi, that Revan faced on Star Forge but they were in hundreds and a good number of among them were powerful opponents.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Revan has shown extensive knowledge in the Force, knowing abilities such as Force Shield, Force Storm, Thought Bomb, etc. He taught Bane everything which made him strong. And as a Lightsider, Revan is more powerful than his Dark self. How can this be?This is ONLY possibile if KOTOR is accurate. Think about it. You see Revan as this master of all these super-strong Dark Side techniques, and yet he is more powerful as the prodigal knight (hence my name lol).
Why? Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?
Ok let me tell you something you might not have heard before! (Not saying it's accurate, just saying, to let you think about it).
What if this Revan we know of in POD, is actually Revan AFTER KOTOR. People will of course say, "but he was lightside at the end of KOTOR", but that doesn't make it impossible to fall again now does it?
And being more powerful than his dark self must mean he knows every single lightside technique? Ugh..... HOW? He could possibly have reached a better level of the force, he might have grown in potential during the time he ceased to be Darth Revan! It would be impossible for him in that time to learn all those techniques, he didn't even train for that long, he couldn't have learnt EVERY lightside technique. It's the same for Kyle Katarn. After he abandoned the force for 9 years after he had trained with it and all before, he once again picked it up to face Desann. Desann remarked that he was even more powerful than before, but that doesn't say Kyle learn't every single lightside technique on the way........
And SW Legend, Revan had company on the Star Forge, and you don't even know the accurate number of opponents. And for all we know, they could have snuck through!
Ok let me tell you something you might not have heard before! (Not saying it's accurate, just saying, to let you think about it).
What if this Revan we know of in POD, is actually Revan AFTER KOTOR. People will of course say, "but he was lightside at the end of KOTOR", but that doesn't make it impossible to fall again now does it?
Let me tell you something, at this point of time we can't say "What if, what if". We know 100% right now that after KOTOR, Revan is Light, and I stand by that.
And being more powerful than his dark self must mean he knows every single lightside technique? Ugh..... HOW? He could possibly have reached a better level of the force, he might have grown in potential during the time he ceased to be Darth Revan! It would be impossible for him in that time to learn all those techniques, he didn't even train for that long, he couldn't have learnt EVERY lightside technique. It's the same for Kyle Katarn. After he abandoned the force for 9 years after he had trained with it and all before, he once again picked it up to face Desann. Desann remarked that he was even more powerful than before, but that doesn't say Kyle learn't every single lightside technique on the way........
1.) No, I did not say that. I said that if Revan becomes that powerful in KOTOR over what he was in PoD, then he likely must have had mastery over many of Light Side powers shown in KOTOR, like Valor, Shield, Master Speed, etc.
2.) You can't grow in potential, can you? Isn't your potential based on your Midi-Chlorian count? Aren't you born with a certain potential. Definition of potential:
Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential problem.
So it's what you could maximum become. Revan was probably only twenty-six or something during the Jedi Civil War. I doubt he reached his potential then. That's why in KOTOR he maxes out.
3.) Again, where did I say that he learnt every Force technique? Please re-consider. And Kyle, after not being in touch with the Force, was able to know Force Lightning, Choke, and other Force Light powers.
Don't blame me if the EU makes Revan look uber.
And SW Legend, Revan had company on the Star Forge, and you don't even know the accurate number of opponents. And for all we know, they could have snuck through!
Wrong, only Revan goes through. KOTOR shows event properly as well. Otherwise I could say Malak had fifteen Dark Jedi with him (excluding the Jedi captives) to fight Revan. Stop the "what ifs".
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Let me tell you something, at this point of time we can't say "What if, what if". We know 100% right now that after KOTOR, Revan is Light, and I stand by that.1.) No, I did not say that. I said that if Revan becomes that powerful in KOTOR over what he was in PoD, then he likely must have had mastery over many of Light Side powers shown in KOTOR, like Valor, Shield, Master Speed, etc.
2.) You can't grow in potential, can you? Isn't your potential based on your Midi-Chlorian count? Aren't you born with a certain potential. Definition of potential:
Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential problem.
So it's what you could maximum become. Revan was probably only twenty-six or something during the Jedi Civil War. I doubt he reached his potential then. That's why in KOTOR he maxes out.
3.) Again, where did I say that he learnt every Force technique? Please re-consider. And Kyle, after not being in touch with the Force, was able to know Force Lightning, Choke, and other Force Light powers.
Don't blame me if the EU makes Revan look uber.
Wrong, only Revan goes through. KOTOR shows event properly as well. Otherwise I could say Malak had fifteen Dark Jedi with him (excluding the Jedi captives) to fight Revan. Stop the "what ifs".
But you DON'T know if the quotes from POD is before or after, you don't have any proof. It might as well have been after, since we don't had any info about Revan making such things and learning such techniques so quickly. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume he did it after, since Revan actually picked up alot of Ancient Sith holocrons and such DURING his time on Korriban, and it was ancient sith techniques he used in POD.
1. Let me quote you, "Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?". It would be pretty obvious why I got your points wrong if I did. ^
Sorry, what I mean't was that I think he got more in tune with his powers, like Anakin grows more and more for every day that passes kinda.
3. ^
And do we really know if Kyle knows those powers? He knew grip, but so did Anakin at once, and Luke as well. It's kinda just to use the force to squeeze their throats. Lightning I've never seen him use in a video, and it would be really weird if Kyle actually did know lightning with no traning of it, since not even Maul did that, and he was trained by the greatest sith lord personally for nearly 20 years. Mind trick he did know, but that is just to influence the weak minded with the force, and heal doesn't work the way it does in jedi outcast, you cannot use heal like that.....
Didn't the game make you go through it with companions? Well either way we don't know how many nor how powerful those guards were, and we do know that it is possible he had a stealth belt.
But you DON'T know if the quotes from POD is before or after, you don't have any proof. It might as well have been after, since we don't had any info about Revan making such things and learning such techniques so quickly. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume he did it after, since Revan actually picked up alot of Ancient Sith holocrons and such DURING his time on Korriban, and it was ancient sith techniques he used in POD.
Wasn't a Star Map on Korriban? And didn't Revan and Malak search for the Star Maps? Seriously, he could have easily gotten one when he visited Korriban. Yes, we don't know, but we can't go to ridiculous statements like "oh he made his holocron after KOTOR" because that doesn't work out. That's just like me saying Krayt is Jacen or Ben will Jacen or something like that. We can't make something up. So please give up this section of your argument.
1. Let me quote you, "Because since Revan is canonically light, if you follow the Light Side as Revan, then you see him knowing mastery over all Light Side Force moves. Otherwise how can he be more powerful?". It would be pretty obvious why I got your points wrong if I did. ^
I meant KOTOR, where you see Revan being a master of the Light. What else did you think I meant?
3. ^
And do we really know if Kyle knows those powers? He knew grip, but so did Anakin at once, and Luke as well. It's kinda just to use the force to squeeze their throats. Lightning I've never seen him use in a video, and it would be really weird if Kyle actually did know lightning with no traning of it, since not even Maul did that, and he was trained by the greatest sith lord personally for nearly 20 years. Mind trick he did know, but that is just to influence the weak minded with the force, and heal doesn't work the way it does in jedi outcast, you cannot use heal like that.....
Actually, we see Quinlan Vos (the best character in Star Wars) being able to use Lightning against Volfe Karkko due to his hatred towars him. We know Kyle uses anger (he is a Gray Jedi), especially in Outcast so yes he knows Lightning.
And so what if Maul couldn't use Lightning? Take Scout from Dark Rendezvous. Jai Maruk didn't believe she had a strong Force connection, but she potent in the lightsaber. The same could be said for Maul, and maybe because Sidious didn't bother training Maul in the Force, but actually in the lightsaber.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Wasn't a Star Map on Korriban? And didn't Revan and Malak search for the Star Maps? Seriously, he could have easily gotten one when he visited Korriban. Yes, we don't know, but we can't go to ridiculous statements like "oh he made his holocron after KOTOR" because that doesn't work out. That's just like me saying Krayt is Jacen or Ben will Jacen or something like that. We can't make something up. So please give up this section of your argument.I meant KOTOR, where you see Revan being a master of the Light. What else did you think I meant?
Actually, we see Quinlan Vos (the best character in Star Wars) being able to use Lightning against Volfe Karkko due to his hatred towars him. We know Kyle uses anger (he is a Gray Jedi), especially in Outcast so yes he knows Lightning.
And so what if Maul couldn't use Lightning? Take Scout from Dark Rendezvous. Jai Maruk didn't believe she had a strong Force connection, but she potent in the lightsaber. The same could be said for Maul, and maybe because Sidious didn't bother training Maul in the Force, but actually in the lightsaber.
So we are just going to say that because he was a sith lord before and we don't know if he was one later, he must have made that holocron before the KOTOR times? I would like to say "abscence of proof is not...", you know, but I will have respect for you and stop!
"Mastery over ALL lightside force moves" makes me belive that the point your making is " he know's every lightside move", which was the one I'm arguing against. And that's why I got it wrong if I did.
I wonder why Sidious would have picked him up if his potential wasn't good, and why wouldn't Sidious train him in the force? That would be pretty dumb since he was to become the perfect sith warrior.
And either way, even if Kyle knew lightning and grip, then he probably knew those techniques before he went on the 9 years exile thing, so maybe he remembered, so no real improvement in techniques there anyway. He was just stronger than he was before, no real explenation other than that, same with Revan.
And the main point we were arguing was that Yoda had more force knowledge than Revan, which was the one you were originally trying to refute wasn't it? Well then you MUST be arguing that Revan knows all lightside techniques, which your gonna have to prove. And I still don't see how Revan could ever hope to beat Yoda in the force. Yoda who knew every single light and dark technique, a defence for the dark, and he knew all the lightside ones.
So we are just going to say that because he was a sith lord before and we don't know if he was one later, he must have made that holocron before the KOTOR times? I would like to say "abscence of proof is not...", you know, but I will have respect for you and stop!
Well if you want to argue this, be my guest. It's just that we can't say he does make the holocron in the future, because that's making stuff up.
"Mastery over ALL lightside force moves" makes me belive that the point your making is " he know's every lightside move", which was the one I'm arguing against. And that's why I got it wrong if I did.
My bad then. Sorry.
I wonder why Sidious would have picked him up if his potential wasn't good, and why wouldn't Sidious train him in the force? That would be pretty dumb since he was to become the perfect sith warrior.
I didn't quite mean it like that. I meant that he trained Maul in the lightsaber and then proceed onto the Force. It's the only explanation.
And the main point we were arguing was that Yoda had more force knowledge than Revan, which was the one you were originally trying to refute wasn't it? Well then you MUST be arguing that Revan knows all lightside techniques, which your gonna have to prove. And I still don't see how Revan could ever hope to beat Yoda in the force. Yoda who knew every single light and dark technique, a defence for the dark, and he knew all the lightside ones.
Prove that Yoda knows every Light and Dark Force move. Revan has shown incredible mastery in the Light, and KOTOR shows this. PoD shows this as well because Revan is a killer master of the Dark, and for him to be even more powerful by POST-KOTOR, he would have to be a master of every Light Side move KOTOR grants him. Only logical explanation.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Well if you want to argue this, be my guest. It's just that we can't say he does make the holocron in the future, because that's making stuff up.My bad then. Sorry.
I didn't quite mean it like that. I meant that he trained Maul in the lightsaber and then proceed onto the Force. It's the only explanation.
Prove that Yoda knows every Light and Dark Force move. Revan has shown incredible mastery in the Light, and KOTOR shows this. PoD shows this as well because Revan is a killer master of the Dark, and for him to be even more powerful by POST-KOTOR, he would have to be a master of every Light Side move KOTOR grants him. Only logical explanation.
Now, nothing says that it was actually before that Revan learn't all this (other than him being a sith of course, which we don't know if he was afterwards), and when did he have time to make holocrons and such, and his theories about the sith and all that? Didn't he have other things to do, and especially learning all about the ancient sith, when there clearly was things left for him to pick up when he travelled to Korriban during the KOTOR time.
I have some questions then, might clearify things for me....
How long did Malak and Revan disappear from the republic?
What did they do then?
They were in unkown regions weren't they?
Nah it's cool m8. 😄
Oh, well that makes sense.
It was stated in a source book, can't remember on top of my head, I'll ask around if anyone knows which one. Sorry...
But still, Yoda's experience>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revan's experience, and we don't know their midichlorian counts, but Yoda was the greatest jedi ever (stated in G-canon material, which actually mean's he was greater than Revan was as a jedi), stronger than anyone the order had produced (and Revan was produced by the order), and being able to stalemate (kinda) the most powerful sith lord in history. I'd say that's enough for me to put him above Revan's force knowledge and power.
How long did Malak and Revan disappear from the republic?
What did they do then?
They were in unkown regions weren't they?
He was gone for several years, but he and Malak went in pursuit of the Star Maps. On Korriban, they found holocrons where Revan made his.
But still, Yoda's experience>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revan's experience, and we don't know their midichlorian counts, but Yoda was the greatest jedi ever (stated in G-canon material, which actually mean's he was greater than Revan was as a jedi), stronger than anyone the order had produced (and Revan was produced by the order), and being able to stalemate (kinda) the most powerful sith lord in history. I'd say that's enough for me to put him above Revan's force knowledge and power.
Well probably you are right. However, experience doesn't always matter. Look what happened to Dooku compared to Anakin. Unless ROTS Yoda IS NOT Yoda in his prime, then I would agree Yoda > Revan. Revan has showed more Force moves than Yoda, all whom we have seen is a Force Push and likewise.