Originally posted by Silent Master
Since when isn't JIM canon, that is what Thor's title was called before it was changed to 'the Mighty Thor'.
Ah you mean Journey into Mystery.
I forgot that. Please give issue # though or scan.
Please note that would be consider SvsFL since he hasn't did that anytime soon and with the fact the Marvel currently says that the hammer itself can summon elements of the storm.
I wouldn't consider Journey into Mystery as evidence as it contradicts a lot of things Thor can do now. For example, it was established in JIM that Thor is susceptible to high caliber fire and was required to block or absorb many attacks with his hammer.
Found a scan, it's part of this respect thread.
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=040414154248&q=thorion
However when clicking on links in the thread it's listing the pictures as being temp unavailable, not sure if it's a problem with site he used to upload the pics or if they were just removed.
We are getting off the subject and on a tangent.
I say
In her official bios from marvel.com http://marvel.com/universe/Invisible_Woman
she is capable of generating and manipulating multiple psionic force fields simultaneously. Thus she can shield herself, create a bubble in Thor, and become
invisible simultaneously. Then she can fly around Thor invisibly while expanding the bubble. Thus reducing the number of hits to her shield by her
invisibility and evasiveness.
She can make her shields instantly in time. For she has done so many times in order to stop bullets, lasers, lightning from Thor's clone Clor, and even
physical assaults by very fast characters in the nick of time. Some will call that PIS that she stop those things because they think she has only human
reflexes. But she has done them countless times. But yet she can do something with her mind that no human can do. That is, she can manipulate multiple
psionic fields simultaneously. What human can do multiple things at once where each thing requires super precise thought? This shows that her mental
abilities are above human and in which they have been altered and upgraded by her power giving accident. Thus it makes sense that she has the ability to get
her shield up instantly before those PIS mentioned attack strikes. Plus planning is allowed before the opening bell (forum rules). Thus all she has to do is
plan to put up a shield, become invisible, put bubble in Thor (all at the same time), and then fly invisibly around Thor and expand the bubble all before the
bell. So when the fight starts, she will already have the bubbles and invisibility up and ready to go.
Another tactic is that she can become invisible and shield herself simultaneously at the start. Then she can fly around Thor evasively and invisibly while
throwing invisible weapons at him. Such as powerful battering rams, sharp darts, spears, and cutting discs (all invisible). Her cutting weapons are known to
cut through solid steel with ease. And her battering rams have tremendous destructive power (from what I've seen from the best of them I honestly think
several of them is capable of knocking Thor out). Thor won't be able to see her to pound her shield and would be able to see the weapons she throws at him to
block them.
If Thor wins then please explain how he gets around these two strategies.
And I know that in a comic, Sue and the FF will always lose. But this is a forum fight. A big difference
Originally posted by h1a8
We are getting off the subject and on a tangent.I say
In her official bios from marvel.com http://marvel.com/universe/Invisible_Woman
she is capable of generating and manipulating multiple psionic force fields simultaneously. Thus she can shield herself, create a bubble in Thor, and become
invisible simultaneously. Then she can fly around Thor invisibly while expanding the bubble. Thus reducing the number of hits to her shield by her
invisibility and evasiveness.
She can make her shields instantly in time. For she has done so many times in order to stop bullets, lasers, lightning from Thor's clone Clor, and even
physical assaults by very fast characters in the nick of time. Some will call that PIS that she stop those things because they think she has only human
reflexes. But she has done them countless times. But yet she can do something with her mind that no human can do. That is, she can manipulate multiple
psionic fields simultaneously. What human can do multiple things at once where each thing requires super precise thought? This shows that her mental
abilities are above human and in which they have been altered and upgraded by her power giving accident. Thus it makes sense that she has the ability to get
her shield up instantly before those PIS mentioned attack strikes. Plus planning is allowed before the opening bell (forum rules). Thus all she has to do is
plan to put up a shield, become invisible, put bubble in Thor (all at the same time), and then fly invisibly around Thor and expand the bubble all before the
bell. So when the fight starts, she will already have the bubbles and invisibility up and ready to go.
Another tactic is that she can become invisible and shield herself simultaneously at the start. Then she can fly around Thor evasively and invisibly while
throwing invisible weapons at him. Such as powerful battering rams, sharp darts, spears, and cutting discs (all invisible). Her cutting weapons are known to
cut through solid steel with ease. And her battering rams have tremendous destructive power (from what I've seen from the best of them I honestly think
several of them is capable of knocking Thor out). Thor won't be able to see her to pound her shield and would be able to see the weapons she throws at him to
block them.
If Thor wins then please explain how he gets around these two strategies.
And I know that in a comic, Sue and the FF will always lose. But this is a forum fight. A big difference
Sue at her best is inspiringly surprising as she masterfully manipulates her fields and forces.
If that's what a human can do, imagine what a god can do. By sheer measure of energy, Blondie will nigh overwhelm her IF he strikes with the same instant ferocity as she. This is, of course, assuming he first tones down his godly reflexes and not vaporize anyone before Sue even has a chance to think. If we're gonna dial Sue up to her 10, let's dial Thor up to his 10.
Originally posted by Mindship
Sue at her best is inspiringly surprising as she masterfully manipulates her fields and forces.
If that's what a human can do, imagine what a [B]god can do. By sheer measure of energy, Blondie will nigh overwhelm her IF he strikes with the same instant ferocity as she. This is, of course, assuming he first tones down his godly reflexes and not vaporize anyone before Sue even has a chance to think. If we're gonna dial Sue up to her 10, let's dial Thor up to his 10. [/B]
I don't care is Thor is up to 100000000000000000.
Sue gets her shield up by the above reasoning. And Thor can't vaporize anyone instantly. That's some serious fanboy stuff there.
Please explain how he gets around these two strategies.
Be a debater and not an opinion giver.
thor can do anything sue can, only faster and better. you think thor can't make a force bubble? come on. ANY telekinetic can imitate sue's power. stop pretending she has the market cornered on force bubbles. you haven't proven anything, h1a8. you've just refused to back down. that's not admirable debating, that's admirable pigheadedness.
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't care is Thor is up to 100000000000000000.
Sue gets her shield up by the above reasoning. And Thor can't vaporize anyone instantly. That's some serious fanboy stuff there.
Please explain how he gets around these two strategies.
Originally posted by h1a8
Be a debater and not an opinion giver.
Originally posted by Mindship
Lemme tell you something about me and Thor: I'm not crazy about the guy. Matter of fact, I have a serious beef with Blondie cuz he beat my favorite (guess from the sig 😎 ) Nonetheless, if we're gonna cast Sue at her deadliest, then to be fair we cast Thor at his deadliest...and he's a [B]god. Sue's only human--amped by cosmic rays--but still a mortal being. Thor is a divine being--and not just a divine being but a top-of-the-line divine being. What ever powers they each deploy, that all takes energy, in on form or another. And a god can generate much more energy than a human being, just by his very nature.
All else being equal, Greater Energy > Lesser Energy. Simple physics, regardless of the details of the battle. Far more likely than not, whatever Sue does, Thor can do something better, faster, stronger, for the simple fact that he's a god.
This is not to say she can't hurt Thor. He is Not immune to being harmed by her. He's simply an otherwise overwhelming magnitude of energy.Be nice. 😛 [/B]
Speaking the truth is the nicest one can be. Many are just giving opinions as proof where I created a strategy for Sue to employ. Yet no one can or has refuted it.
Have you ever debated with your friends in person on who will win? Didn't each of you give scenarios to a strategy of how so and so will win? Didn't the other sometimes refute that by providing another strategy of their own? This is what debating is all about. And what this forum was designed to be about.
How can you hit something that you can't see and is moving?
A god by definition means "a male being of supernatural powers who is worshiped by a people". That means anyone who has powers could be a god. From superman on to sue. Thus using the "because he is a god then he wins" reasoning is a fallacy. And divine means holy (set apart), supernatural, of having super powers, and worshiped.
Yes Thor is very powerful. But I don't see how he gets out of the two strategies i've mentioned for sue. Just saying things like he wins because he is more powerful is blindsighted, bias, and fallacious reasoning. For they avoid the mere problem of Thor being defeated by them. This is a forum where one must debate (give premises and conclusions, rebut other arguments, etc) to prove a case. Simply stating opinions and abilities doesn't prove anything. You must show specifically how one can beat the other (giving details). If you or anyone shows me how Thor gets out of both those strategies I mentioned then I will consider seeing it differently.
Originally posted by h1a8
Speaking the truth is the nicest one can be. Many are just giving opinions as proof where I created a strategy for Sue to employ. Yet no one can or has refuted it.Have you ever debated with your friends in person on who will win? Didn't each of you give scenarios to a strategy of how so and so will win? Didn't the other sometimes refute that by providing another strategy of their own? This is what debating is all about. And what this forum was designed to be about.
How can you hit something that you can't see and is moving?
A god by definition means "a male being of supernatural powers who is worshiped by a people". That means anyone who has powers could be a god. From superman on to sue. Thus using the "because he is a god then he wins" reasoning is a fallacy. And divine means holy (set apart), supernatural, of having super powers, and worshiped.
Yes Thor is very powerful. But I don't see how he gets out of the two strategies i've mentioned for sue. Just saying things like he wins because he is more powerful is blindsighted, bias, and fallacious reasoning. For they avoid the mere problem of Thor being defeated by them. This is a forum where one must debate (give premises and conclusions, rebut other arguments, etc) to prove a case. Simply stating opinions and abilities doesn't prove anything. You must show specifically how one can beat the other (giving details). If you or anyone shows me how Thor gets out of both those strategies I mentioned then I will consider seeing it differently.
I understand what you're saying: you've worked out details with scenarios and expect counter-details...that is how you see a "debate," and if these combatants were more evenly matched, that would be a fair expectation.
But with regard to Thor vs Sue (and judging from the other posts, I am not alone in this regard), "debating" details here is pointless. The crux to your Sue-wins scenarios is how fast she can attack and defend. It doesn't matter how fast she can react. Thor--being a god--will always be faster. That, combined with his overwhelmingly greater energy at his disposal, makes a details-debate in Thor vs Sue pointless (IMHO). But this is not just opinion: this is all the debating I feel is required in this match-up.
Sorry if you find this response disappointing. Not all debates require detailed blow-for-blow accounts.
Originally posted by h1a8
We are getting off the subject and on a tangent.I say
In her official bios from marvel.com http://marvel.com/universe/Invisible_Woman
she is capable of generating and manipulating multiple psionic force fields simultaneously. Thus she can shield herself, create a bubble in Thor, and become
invisible simultaneously. Then she can fly around Thor invisibly while expanding the bubble. Thus reducing the number of hits to her shield by her
invisibility and evasiveness.
She can make her shields instantly in time. For she has done so many times in order to stop bullets, lasers, lightning from Thor's clone Clor, and even
physical assaults by very fast characters in the nick of time. Some will call that PIS that she stop those things because they think she has only human
reflexes. But she has done them countless times. But yet she can do something with her mind that no human can do. That is, she can manipulate multiple
psionic fields simultaneously. What human can do multiple things at once where each thing requires super precise thought? This shows that her mental
abilities are above human and in which they have been altered and upgraded by her power giving accident. Thus it makes sense that she has the ability to get
her shield up instantly before those PIS mentioned attack strikes. Plus planning is allowed before the opening bell (forum rules). Thus all she has to do is
plan to put up a shield, become invisible, put bubble in Thor (all at the same time), and then fly invisibly around Thor and expand the bubble all before the
bell. So when the fight starts, she will already have the bubbles and invisibility up and ready to go.
Another tactic is that she can become invisible and shield herself simultaneously at the start. Then she can fly around Thor evasively and invisibly while
throwing invisible weapons at him. Such as powerful battering rams, sharp darts, spears, and cutting discs (all invisible). Her cutting weapons are known to
cut through solid steel with ease. And her battering rams have tremendous destructive power (from what I've seen from the best of them I honestly think
several of them is capable of knocking Thor out). Thor won't be able to see her to pound her shield and would be able to see the weapons she throws at him to
block them.
If Thor wins then please explain how he gets around these two strategies.
And I know that in a comic, Sue and the FF will always lose. But this is a forum fight. A big difference
Thor can also create and manipulate force fields, only his are more durable.
Thor can also become intangible, and has even shown that Mjolnir is able detect foes who have become intangible. Just ask Vision how turning intangible helped him against the Thunder god.
No she can't. Sue is only human, and thus her reflexes are only those of any ordinary being. She can't summon instant bubbles or force fields and considering Clor's fake lightning wore her out enough to cause bleeding, it's safe to assume that the lightning Thor commands, that can increase more than 100 fold should be more than enough to finish her off.
She was ko'd making an attempt to block a punch from Gladiator, how do you think she'll do against an arguably more powerful foe?
well I can't read the rest of your post.....
Okay..one last time..this is your brain...
And this is what happens to your brain on drugs --
Originally posted by The_Barbarian
How do you figure?Before we make blind assumptions, Let us look at the facts:
[list]
[*]Sue Richards is one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe, as is her son Franklin.[*]Reed is a super-genius, rivaled by few in the Marvel Universe.
[*]The Thing consistently goes toe to toe with the likes of the Hulk, Absorbing Man, Gladiator, the Wrecker, and countless other Class 100 level characters.
[*]Johnny is no slouch in the power department himself.
[/list]
Thor will have his hands full. With or without prep time.
Any questions?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Thor can also create and manipulate force fields, only his are more durable.Thor can also become intangible, and has even shown that Mjolnir is able detect foes who have become intangible. Just ask Vision how turning intangible helped him against the Thunder god.
No she can't. Sue is only human, and thus her reflexes are only those of any ordinary being. She can't summon instant bubbles or force fields and considering Clor's fake lightning wore her out enough to cause bleeding, it's safe to assume that the lightning Thor commands, that can increase more than 100 fold should be more than enough to finish her off.
She was ko'd making an attempt to block a punch from Gladiator, how do you think she'll do against an arguably more powerful foe?
well I can't read the rest of your post.....
Fact 1: Sue gets her shield up and becomes invisible when the fight starts.
Fact 2: Sue flys around thor, invisibly.
Fact 3: Sue kills thors more than 6 ways to sunday.
For Thor to beat Sue using this strategy he must have a way to perceive sue before she kills him with super battering rams, spears, etc. And I don't see any way for Thor to get around this. HE CAN'T SEE HER OR HER WEAPONS . What is he going to do? He is totally helpless. And this is Sue's weakess strategy.
The best strategy for Sue is to put a bubble in Thor at the same time as fact 1 is happening. What is Thor going to do to stop that? And remember she's invisible and will by flying around with a force field on. Once she expands it then it is all over. He can't touch her.
And again, this is a forum fight. NOT A COMIC ONE.
Originally posted by h1a8
Fact 1: Sue gets her shield up and becomes invisible when the fight starts.Fact 2: Sue flys around thor, invisibly.
Fact 3: Sue kills thors more than 6 ways to sunday.
For Thor to beat Sue using this strategy he must have a way to perceive sue before she kills him with super battering rams, spears, etc. And I don't see any way for Thor to get around this. [B]HE CAN'T SEE HER OR HER WEAPONS
. What is he going to do? He is totally helpless. And this is Sue's weakess strategy.The best strategy for Sue is to put a bubble in Thor at the same time as fact 1 is happening. What is Thor going to do to stop that? And remember she's invisible and will by flying around with a force field on. Once she expands it then it is all over. He can't touch her. [/B]