People need to stop hating on U.S. Citezens

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
As of March 6th 2004, from a report prepared from the House Government Reform Committee:

President Bush made 55 misleading statements about the threat posed by Iraq in
27 separate public statements or appearances.
Of the 55 misleading statements by President Bush, 4 claimed that Iraq posed an
urgent threat; 14 exaggerated Iraq’s efforts to develop nuclear weapons; 18
overstated Iraq’s chemical or biological weapons capacity; and 19 misrepresented
Iraq’s links to al Qaeda.

On October 7, 2002, just days before the October 10 and October 11, 2002,
congressional votes on the Iraq war resolution, President Bush gave an address in
Cincinnati, Ohio, about the threat posed by Iraq. In this speech, President Bush
made 11 misleading statements about Iraq, the highest number of misleading
statements in any single appearance by any of the five officials. In this single
appearance, President Bush made misleading statements about Iraq’s nuclear
capabilities, Iraq’s efforts to procure aluminum tubes, Iraq’s chemical and
biological capabilities, and Iraq’s connection to al Qaeda.
Some of the misleading statements made by President Bush included the
following:
• “On its present course, the Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency. . . .
It has developed weapons of mass death.”110
• “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”111
• “The liberation of Iraq . . . removed an ally of al Qaeda.”112
• “We found the weapons of mass destruction. . . . [F]or those who say we
haven’t found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons,
they’re wrong, we found them.”1

June 18 2004:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html

Misleading statements and outright lying are two entirely different animals in a political court; like I said before, he and his party are extremely adept with loopholes and blame shifting. It's an art-form for them and they're Rembrandts.

As far as "misleading" America into a war, most Democrats initially agreed that Saddam posed a threat and that the WMD's which are still MIA were probably in Iraq.

Meh, imo publicly stating that WMDs were found pretty easily constitutes outright lying.

Originally posted by Robtard
Misleading statements and outright lying are two entirely different animals in a political court; like I said before, he and his party are extremely adept with loopholes and blame shifting. It's an art-form for them and they're Rembrandts.

As far as "misleading" America into a war, most Democrats initially agreed that Saddam posed an threat and that the WMD's which are still MIA were probably in Iraq.

Lets not create any saints either, both parties are adept at manipulating the legal system. Most of the folks on the hill are or were attornies at one point or another.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, imo publicly stating that WMDs were found pretty easily constitutes outright lying.

No offense, but your opinion along with mine equate too two things politically, Jack and Shit... and Jack ran home. It's what 'you' can prove, not what your gut instinct tells you. America is stuck with Bush for 2+ years, I've learned to cope with it as an American.

As far as Bush stating that WMDs were found... would that be the 20 year old defunct canisters of cerin gas? Because technically those are WMDs, they just not happen to be the WMDs America is looking for, but that's only a "technical" difference to the Bush admin.

Originally posted by Soleran
Lets not create any saints either, both parties are adept at manipulating the legal system. Most of the folks on the hill are or were attornies at one point or another.

Don't get me wrong, all politicians are adept liars and loophol'ers... We just happened to be talking about Bush and Co. here. IMO though, this admin has done more greasy escapes than the previous and they are extremely good at it.

Originally posted by Strangelove
I don't hate America, I hate Americans 😐

Then you should take the position of someone who hates what Americans do, some of the time. It's too bad that so many people are convinced that Americans and their government are totally right on one extreme or another. I wasn't making a statement that condemned America while letting it's people off the hook. The sad part of our situation is that the people, who elect and support and condone our leaders deserve the resentment of other peoples in other nations. Are they justified? Not always. Are they justified some of the times? Most certainly.

I once got into (one of many) a political argument with my mother, who is one of those people who just regurgitate FOX sound bites and claim them as their own truth. That's just plain ignorant. It's ignorant to do it on either side of the aisle. The real America stands IN the aisle....not on one side or the other of it. But her argument was "what can you do? It's all just politics!". In an age of electronic voting, voter fraud on a national scale(on BOTH sides), the absence of legitimate checks and balances, for-profit wars, non-existant term limits, lobbyist influenced votes(again on both sides), public apathy and skyrocketing effort to eliminate the middle class via insurance policy, lack of education, etc...how can we tout ourselves as the America that acts as the conscience of the world when we've become unconscienceable?

If you want to wrap your mind around conspiracy theories, then you should start with the one that keeps us divided on one side or another. America has ****ED UP! A LOT! But it's core principles are there to help it's people understand what is right and wrong. As it is, neither side is right. And I find myself hoping both are drug off to camps with a furnace so the rest of us can get on with our lives.

Originally posted by Robtard
No offense, but your opinion along with mine equate too two things politically, Jack and Shit... and Jack ran home. It's what 'you' can prove, not what your gut instinct tells you. America is stuck with Bush for 2+ years, I've learned to cope with it as an American.

As far as Bush stating that WMDs were found... would that be the 20 year old defunct canisters of cerin gas? Because technically those are WMDs, they just not happen to be the WMDs America is looking for, but that's only a "technical" difference to the Bush admin.

I know Bush's approval ratings are dismal, but the fact is when asked, around 40% of the U.S. public still approve of his performance. It may simply be a misperception but to the external observer it seems many U.S. citizens feel the need to support their Commander-in-Chief regardless of how completely inept he and his administration perform; and hold the view that to criticize one's government is to be unpatriotic, as if patriotism supersedes democracy.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh I'm not saying my opinion means anything. I'm just somewhat perplexed at the U.S. public in general, a furore over Presidential sexual relations, conversely a relatively demure response to what would objectively constitute lying to the public in order to create false pretenses to initiate a war.

I know Bush's approval ratings are dismal, but the fact is when asked, around 40% of the U.S. public still approve of his performance. It may simply be a misperception but to the external observer it seems many U.S. citizens feel the need to support their Commander-in-Chief regardless of how completely inept he and his administration perform; and hold the view that to criticize one's government is to be unpatriotic, as if patriotism supersedes democracy.

It appears we agree.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, imo publicly stating that WMDs were found pretty easily constitutes outright lying.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm just somewhat perplexed at the U.S. public in general, a furore over Presidential sexual relations, conversely a relatively demure response to what would objectively constitute lying to the public in order to create false pretenses to initiate a war.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Is that needed?

Are you talking about outright lying, or pointing it out?

Well often unless the qualifier "imo" is placed, people feel the need to point out that that's only your opinion, redundantly considering everything I post is my opinion unless referenced to an alternative source.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh I'm not saying my opinion means anything. I'm just somewhat perplexed at the U.S. public in general, a furore over Presidential sexual relations, conversely a relatively demure response to what would objectively constitute lying to the public in order to create false pretenses to initiate a war.

I know Bush's approval ratings are dismal, but the fact is when asked, around 40% of the U.S. public still approve of his performance. It may simply be a misperception but to the external observer it seems many U.S. citizens feel the need to support their Commander-in-Chief regardless of how completely inept he and his administration perform; and hold the view that to criticize one's government is to be unpatriotic, as if patriotism supersedes democracy.

Well said.

On a non-political note, I have lived in the US, and I have met many Americans in Asia. I'm sad to say that the majority of the ones I have met have been ignorant, arrogant idiots. At the same time, I have a few American friends who do not fit that profile.

However, from my experience, most non-Americans do seem to share the same opinion of Americans as I do. One of my friends is from Sri Lanka, and he sells curry rotis at a night market near where I live. Every day he meets and sells food to English, French, Polish, Australian, South African, Canadian and American people. He is always friendly to anyone he hasn't met before, but he says the rudest and most obnoxious people that he serves are nearly always American.

I think it is because of the way most Americans are brought up to believe that they live in 'The Greatest Country In The World' - as if there even is such a thing! With this attitude imbued since birth, it's no wonder that their interaction with non-Americans comes off as arrogant.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Are you talking about outright lying, or pointing it out?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well often unless the qualifier "imo" is placed, people feel the need to point out that that's only your opinion, redundantly considering everything I post is my opinion unless referenced to an alternative source.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well often unless the qualifier "imo" is placed, people feel the need to point out that that's only your opinion, redundantly considering everything I post is my opinion unless referenced to an alternative source.

Well, let me insert my version of "imo". It's an outright lie that Bush is trying to feed to the world.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, let me insert my version of "imo". It's an outright lie that Bush is trying to feed to the world.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh I'm not saying my opinion means anything. I'm just somewhat perplexed at the U.S. public in general, a furore over Presidential sexual relations, conversely a relatively demure response to what would objectively constitute lying to the public in order to create false pretenses to initiate a war.

I know Bush's approval ratings are dismal, but the fact is when asked, around 40% of the U.S. public still approve of his performance. It may simply be a misperception but to the external observer it seems many U.S. citizens feel the need to support their Commander-in-Chief regardless of how completely inept he and his administration perform; and hold the view that to criticize one's government is to be unpatriotic, as if patriotism supersedes democracy.

The Clinton debacle wasn't over sex, it was over Clinton lying under oath/committing perjury. Though I do think he should have been asked to answer personal questions about his sex life in the first place.

Not a "need" to support Bush no matter what, some people simply believe he is a great man and he is doing what is right. Though I am certain people do exist like you have explained, but that isn't a strict American ideology nor do I think it is on a large scale, it happens all over the world too I'm sure.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Neither. I meant that something isn't opinion if it's fact.

The problem is, a fact is a fact. No "imo" needed. We were lied to.

Can you prove it though? There lays the problem...

Originally posted by Robtard
The Clinton debacle wasn't over sex, it was over Clinton lying under oath/committing perjury. Though I do think he should have been asked to answer personal questions about his sex life in the first place.

Not a "need" to support Bush no matter what, some people simply believe he is a great man and he is doing what is right. Though I am certain people do exist like you have explained, but that isn't a strict American ideology nor do I think it is on a large scale, it happens all over the world I'm sure.

Wow. Way to ignore all the lies Bush has told. As though "under oath" shouldn't always apply to a president when addressing the American people.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Wow. Way to ignore all the lies Bush has told.

Huh? I wasn't supporting Bush nor talking about lies/truth.

Originally posted by Robtard
Huh?

The Clinton "debacle" wasn't over him lying about his personal life. It was about him lying under oath, right?