Beast versus Spiderman

Originally posted by jrodslam
With most battles on this forum, we have to think in comic terms as well to a degree. I mean if we have Spidey against Colossus, yea people would say colossus wins, but many people would still say that depending on the setting Spidey would beat him by outsmarting him as well. If we decide who wins by comparing stats/abilities all the time, wed have all those with superior stats the victor of every battle.

Originally posted by jrodslam
With most battles on this forum, we have to think in comic terms as well to a degree. I mean if we have Spidey against Colossus, yea people would say colossus wins, but many people would still say that depending on the setting Spidey would beat him by outsmarting him as well. If we decide who wins by comparing stats/abilities all the time, wed have all those with superior stats the victor of every battle.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which makes the most sense unless one set of stats is negated by another i.e intangibility, telepathy. I don't think it should be stats alone but a combination of them all... The thing is it isn't quite comics... hence why characters can speedblitz and whatnot here even they don't do it in comics, it has to be capable within their powers.

And their personality. Which is exactly why CIS is valid, and why people like Absorbing Man don't always completley dominate, and not nearly to the extent that someone like Victor von Doom would, if given the same powers

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which makes the most sense unless one set of stats is negated by another i.e intangibility, telepathy. I don't think it should be stats alone but a combination of them all... The thing is it isn't quite comics... hence why characters can speedblitz and whatnot here even they don't do it in comics, it has to be capable within their powers.

And thats what i believe holds more weight in deciding battles. Which stat/ability negate the other. I do think in some cases one stat can negate all other stats by the oponent, in which you mentioned the intangibility, telepathy or whatever. Now with the "capable within their powers" arguement, im all for a speedblitz. The problem i have withmany people using it is the fact that thats all it would take for a win. Second is that eventhough it may SEEM capable within their powers, many of the people who are said to speedblitz at the beginning of a fight(although may be capable of doing so), cant even fight at high speeds. I guess thats when the term "within character" or "consistant" comes into play eventhough bloodlusted applies here too.

Either way, Beast doesnt have any skill/ability/power that helps him secure a good amount of wins against Spidey. All he has going for him is being smater which doesnt help him much against someone who has better tactical/combat smarts than he does.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
And their personality. Which is exactly why CIS is valid, and why people like Absorbing Man don't always completley dominate, and not nearly to the extent that someone like Victor von Doom would, if given the same powers

Originally posted by jrodslam
And thats what i believe holds more weight in deciding battles. Which stat/ability negate the other. I do think in some cases one stat can negate all other stats by the oponent, in which you mentioned the intangibility, telepathy or whatever. Now with the "capable within their powers" arguement, im all for a speedblitz. The problem i have withmany people using it is the fact that thats all it would take for a win. Second is that eventhough it may SEEM capable within their powers, many of the people who are said to speedblitz at the beginning of a fight(although may be capable of doing so), cant even fight at high speeds. I guess thats when the term "within character" or "consistant" comes into play eventhough bloodlusted applies here too.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Either way, Beast doesnt have any skill/ability/power that helps him secure a good amount of wins against Spidey. All he has going for him is being smater which doesnt help him much against someone who has better tactical/combat smarts than he does.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If they can't fight at high speeds, then they shouldn't be able to do it. Surfer and Thor aren't even certified speedblitzers on this forum.

I usually dont hear of Thor speedblitzing at the beginning of a match, but Surfer is ALWAYS mentioned as doing that to obtain the first hit or ko in battle. Id say the split is about 50/50. Some say he can and others say hes never done so and havent seen much proof that say otherwise. Yet its still used that Surfer would speedbitz in batte and just as easily gets shut down.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I usually dont hear of Thor speedblitzing at the beginning of a match, but Surfer is ALWAYS mentioned as doing that to obtain the first hit or ko in battle. Id say the split is about 50/50. Some say he can and others say hes never done so and havent seen much proof that say otherwise. Yet its still used that Surfer would speedbitz in batte and just as easily gets shut down.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I usually dont hear of Thor speedblitzing at the beginning of a match, but Surfer is ALWAYS mentioned as doing that to obtain the first hit or ko in battle. Id say the split is about 50/50. Some say he can and others say hes never done so and havent seen much proof that say otherwise. Yet its still used that Surfer would speedbitz in batte and just as easily gets shut down.

Then theres the other side of the coin.

Take Wonder Woman for example.
An amazing fighter with tons of skill and expierience. AND extremley fast. But she's NEVER mentioned to speedblitz at the beginning of battle. Or, hardly ever.
Why?
Simply, because in the comics she hardly ever does. I don't think its a stretch to say she could, with some ease.

The panels always affect peoples decision on an outcome, whether they should or not.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Then theres the other side of the coin.

Take Wonder Woman for example.
An amazing fighter with tons of skill and expierience. AND extremley fast. But she's NEVER mentioned to speedblitz at the beginning of battle. Or, hardly ever.
Why?
Simply, because in the comics she hardly ever does. I don't think its a stretch to say she could, with some ease.

The panels always affect peoples decision on an outcome, whether they should or not.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I've heard her to do it against Street Levelers (there's that word again), but not guys like Superman and Surfer, because they are simply much faster.

Well, even then, you're hardpressed to come up with enough reasonable, doubtless scans for there to be much of a difference.

But, true enough, she doesnt usually get put in fights where thats applicable.

But, when she could and doesn't, is that CIS? Possibly. Either way, things like such usage of power directly affects forum fights. It's similair to Thor's sheilds

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, even then, you're hardpressed to come up with enough reasonable, doubtless scans for there to be much of a difference.

But, true enough, she doesnt usually get put in fights where thats applicable.

But, when she could and doesn't, is that CIS? Possibly. Either way, things like such usage of power directly affects forum fights. It's similair to Thor's sheilds

If Thor can make shields and it's in his power, it shouldn't be a problem IMO, no different than Flash's IMP.

well, I think there is a problem with taking the powers at their peak.

Look at Flash, he's no longer even used in any threads any more because on KMC versus, he's a true God. We keep elevating these characters beyond what they really are.

In the future instead of Superman or wolverine, we could just say super strong invincible man who flies and quick healing fighter with adamantium claws since all we care about is their powers and not how they actually use it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I haven't had too much argument against it, I've heard that Street Levelers should be able to speedblitz (I.e Wolverine and Thing), someone who flies at subsonic speeds should be able to, even if not as well.

If Thor can make shields and it's in his power, it shouldn't be a problem IMO, no different than Flash's IMP.

I know, I'm not trying to say you were. Just discussing how characters are portrayed. It's not a different as people say, between the comics and KMC

Originally posted by masterbruce
well, I think there is a problem with taking the powers at their peak.

Look at Flash, he's no longer even used in any threads any more because on KMC versus, he's a true God. We keep elevating these characters beyond what they really are.

In the future instead of Superman or wolverine, we could just say super strong invincible man who flies and quick healing fighter with adamantium claws since all we care about is their powers and not how they actually use it.

I'd like to add that Beast has used pressure point attacks once or twice on his career Last time I remember him using him them was during that whole Neo sh*t. Ororo's friend was being held by some kind of man with super stats and then Beast attacked him and said that it's easy for him as he knows the entire human anatomy to make him release his prisoner.

I'll look for the issue number..

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It gets annoying, but then again, if you are just going to go by what's happened in their history and not take into account that writers water them down, what's the point of having an open-ended discussion?

It seems that KMC versus is really just a "who's more powerful between these 2" rather than a true versus forum, which becomes rather boring very quickly.

My idea of a good versus forum would be where posters actually wrote mini-scenarios of HOW the battle would take place instead of just picking someone instead of some one sentence answer. And then, whoever portrays the most credible scenario will win. This way we can take characteristics and the way characters actually are into effect.

We've had those threads before actually.

Originally posted by Jyppe
I'd like to add that Beast has used pressure point attacks once or twice on his career Last time I remember him using him them was during that whole Neo sh*t. Ororo's friend was being held by some kind of man with super stats and then Beast attacked him and said that it's easy for him as he knows the entire human anatomy to make him release his prisoner.

I'll look for the issue number..

He should know pressure points he's a doctor.(even thow it wouldn't mean he would know how to use them in a fight, since doctors never really fight I believe).

And for his strenght I agree he doesn't have much feats but still in the X-Facor serie's he's a real powerhouse.

In X-factor 33 he resists, Apocalipse ship who try's to restrain him because he transforms from human to beast form, breaks free and causes a local earth quake by hitting the ground with his hands, he knocks out Frenzy a character who looks a lot like Luke Cage.
She's a mutant with superhuman strenght and has a steel hard skin.

Hank did trash a bulldozer in X-factor 35 with his bare hands.
He flipped over a Flamethrower truck (I know it sounds silly a truck that fire's flame's).

In X-Factor Annual #04 he goes up against Attuma (who's a 40 tonner on land, in water he's even stronger), but under water he hits beast and beast is saying to himself that he is almost as strong as Attuma, but can't move in the water like him.

And there are more feats of beast strenght in the X-Factor serie's.

But he also got his chance to be the powerhouse of the team this time with no Rogue or Colossus around.

Literal Intelligence? I would be very inclined to give that to beast. As for combat though, im guessing spiderman most likely wins

A lot of people on this form is guessing when it comes to beast. Beast is a better fighter because for 1 he is being trained by wolverine and 2 he is in the danger room all the time. Another thing you all are guessing on is the agility factor. Beast is as agile or he could be more agile than spiderman. Beast power is his agility so how could you say that spiderman is more agile. I have seen beast dodge bullets punches, jump 30 feet, he is as agile as spiderman. Another thing, beast strength HAS BEEN INCREASED, DRAMATICALLY he is are could be stronger than spiderman but strength dont matter in these fights especially 10 ton strength because beast have faced a lot stronger. I would like to give you all a list of THE NEW BEAST POWERS, read them in weep and I think that beast could take spiderman 7 out of 10.

Powers: de-evolutionary regressive mutation gives him enormous physical mass, superhuman strength, speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, dexterity and intelligence, cat-like vision, enhanced hearing and sense of smell, accelerated healing abilities, thick blue fur, razor sharp fangs and claws on his fingers and toes, formerly possessed a human appearance with enlarged hands and feet, a less-powerful simian form, and at one time possessed strength that increased when necessary by feeding off his intellect, augmenting his physical power while reducing his mind

You all know you trip me out with this spiderman speed crap. when he becomes the flash let me know but beast speed is super human also.