Flaws with God.

Originally posted by Trickster
Or, more correctly, the flaws I can see with believing in a God. I'm not going to embellish here, but these are some of the flaws I see in believing in God (meaning the God of Classical Theism):

1. Evolution.
2. Evil and suffering. Why would an all-loving God create a world where his 'children' are often subjected to pain? Before anybody mentions the fall from the garden of eden, an all-knowing God would have known this was going to occur, and planned accordingly.
3. The Bible. Two major points here - the fall from Eden. If Adam and Eve hadn't yet eaten from the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil', then how can God hold them to account for doing so, since they obviously weren't aware what they were doing was wrong? Also, the sheer vindictiveness of God in the Old Testament astounds me.
4. Why would God want or need to create the world? If he really is infinite (in every sense of the word), then there would be no reason for him to create the world.
5. What did God do before creating the world, and what will he do afterwards?

I'm sure more will come to me, and if they do I'll post them up.

Oh, finally:

6. I see no reason to believe in God, especially the God of any particular religion. If I was to believe, I'd determine my own concept of a God, not let someone else tell me what to believe in.

I had long ago made a thread on idea two. My thoughts, summarized, where:

- Concept that God must be all-good.

- If God is all-good, good can only be defined when contrasted with evil.

- Therefore, for God to be all-good, evil must exist.

- If evil exists and God is all-good, then God's moral duty is to stamp out evil.

- He does not stamp out evil, as it still exists.

- Therefore, either God is not all-good, or if he is, he must be helpless to stop evil.

- If he is helpless to stop evil, then he cannot be God, because God is by definition a being with such power.

David Hume thought similar things.

Cool.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
I had long ago made a thread on idea two. My thoughts, summarized, where:

- Concept that God must be all-good.

- If God is all-good, good can only be defined when contrasted with evil.

- Therefore, for God to be all-good, evil must exist.

- If evil exists and God is all-good, then God's moral duty is to stamp out evil.

- He does not stamp out evil, as it still exists.

- Therefore, either God is not all-good, or if he is, he must be helpless to stop evil.

- If he is helpless to stop evil, then he cannot be God, because God is by definition a being with such power.

David Hume thought similar things.

If he gave us free will...we can make our own dicisions.

If we can make our own decisions, he does not control us.

If he does not control us, he is not all powerful.

If he is not all powerful, he is not god.

Originally posted by Alliance
If he gave us free will...we can make our own dicisions.

If we can make our own decisions, he does not control us.

If he does not control us, he is not all powerful.

If he is not all powerful, he is not god.

No. You see here.

"He does not control us because he does not want to."? WTF kind of an argument is that. Basically, you have no logic, so you spend your time trying to think of ways to attack mine.

Originally posted by Alliance
No. You see here.

"He does not control us because he does not want to."? WTF kind of an argument is that. Basically, you have no logic, so you spend your time trying to think of ways to attack mine.

Honestly, you're a wast of my time.

I have explained, AGAIN AND AGAIN, as have others, about WHY the Bible is not credible.

You don't get it. That is termed ignorance and blindness. A self-sustaining delusion.

You have no right to accuse me of having a poor argument when you make none. You're frankly a waste of my time tonight.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Its a great argument. God never claims to want to control us and even shows otherwise (ie. free will). He gives us laws to show us how to live a good life and then leaves us to our own decisions. He then shows love by sending His son to show us once again and lead us to repentance.
You ignore what the Bible says about God and then make baseless claims about him without scripture to back up your assumptions of God's nature. I call that poor arguing.

👆 exactly.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Its a great argument. God never claims to want to control us and even shows otherwise (ie. free will). He gives us laws to show us how to live a good life and then leaves us to our own decisions. He then shows love by sending His son to show us once again and lead us to repentance.
You ignore what the Bible says about God and then make baseless claims about him without scripture to back up your assumptions of God's nature. I call that poor arguing.

You don't need a Bible or scripture to beleive in a Cosmic Creator.

I beleive that some powerful creational force constructed this universe. I do not thnk it is your same god you worship, no offense. Christian God is too limitted, hypocritical, narrow minded, sexist, wrathful, flawed, and indifferent to have created us and this universe (and i am making a judgment on this version of God from the people who represent him on Earth and from the literal terms in the Bible, so do not say my claims are baseless, thank you)

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You don't need a Bible or scripture to beleive in a Cosmic Creator.

I beleive that some powerful creational force constructed this universe. I do not thnk it is your same god you worship, no offense. Christian God is too limitted, hypocritical, narrow minded, sexist, wrathful, flawed, and indifferent to have created us and this universe (and i am making a judgment on this version of God from the people who represent him on Earth and from the literal terms in the Bible, so do not say my claims are baseless, thank you)

The anger you express towards many of the Christians is one of the reasons why I have come to so deeply hate hypocrisy. I do not see God as a hypocrite, but way too many of his followers are and by your own confession it does a lot of damage.

Originally posted by Trickster
Or, more correctly, the flaws I can see with believing in a God. I'm not going to embellish here, but these are some of the flaws I see in believing in God (meaning the God of Classical Theism):

1. Evolution.
2. Evil and suffering. Why would an all-loving God create a world where his 'children' are often subjected to pain? Before anybody mentions the fall from the garden of eden, an all-knowing God would have known this was going to occur, and planned accordingly.
3. The Bible. Two major points here - the fall from Eden. If Adam and Eve hadn't yet eaten from the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil', then how can God hold them to account for doing so, since they obviously weren't aware what they were doing was wrong? Also, the sheer vindictiveness of God in the Old Testament astounds me.
4. Why would God want or need to create the world? If he really is infinite (in every sense of the word), then there would be no reason for him to create the world.
5. What did God do before creating the world, and what will he do afterwards?

I'm sure more will come to me, and if they do I'll post them up.

Oh, finally:

6. I see no reason to believe in God, especially the God of any particular religion. If I was to believe, I'd determine my own concept of a God, not let someone else tell me what to believe in.

1. There is no absolute proof of evolution
2. He created a world for humans to have abundant happiness. Apparently, it was man and the devil who brought pain and suffering
3. God plain and simply told them not to eat from the tree. Their defiance caused them to be cast out of the garden of eden.
4. God loves. We were created as the object of his love.
5. I honestly dont know. I'll ask him that when I get to heaven.
6. Again, defiance. You'd prefer to live in a world controlled by you and not any being more superior. You probably indulge in sinful habits and would prefer to believe in evolution since this theory plays no governing role without rules to abide by.

Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by Nellinator
I know, but his reference was to the Biblical God so he should have used something other than assumption...

True

Originally posted by Nellinator
The anger you express towards many of the Christians is one of the reasons why I have come to so deeply hate hypocrisy. I do not see God as a hypocrite, but way too many of his followers are and by your own confession it does a lot of damage.

Agreed. I don't hate Christianity as a religion though. As a personal faith, i'm fine with it. But as a political movement, I find it nothing but conflict causing.

You are one of the few Christians that reminds me that it is only a religion, does not DEFINE a person, and that I should respect a person's individual beleif.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
1. There is no absolute proof of evolution

Fossils, D.N.A., and Carbon Dating are not proof enough? Wowzers...

What proof exists for the validity of the Bible ?

Maybe If I wrote about evolution on old pieces of paper, translated it through different languages, and told you to blindly beleive it, then and only then would you consider it truth. 😆

Originally posted by Up In Flames
2. He created a world for humans to have abundant happiness. Apparently, it was man and the devil who brought pain and suffering

From the fruit of a Tree that GOD created. And God allowed the Serpant in the Garden.

They say there are two types of evil people: Those who DO evil, and those who SEE EVIL being DONE and do NOTHING to STOP it !

Originally posted by Up In Flames
3. God plain and simply told them not to eat from the tree. Their defiance caused them to be cast out of the garden of eden.

Why did God put the tree there in the first place ? God's unmerciful wrath caused their exile from the Garden. God did not HAVE to do it.....

Originally posted by Up In Flames
4. God loves. We were created as the object of his love.

Then why do those who claim to know God usually display the most hatred ?

Originally posted by Up In Flames
5. I honestly dont know. I'll ask him that when I get to heaven.

IF that ever happens......you are SO sure you will go to Heaven. That implies you are not a sinner, and that is an arrogant and even theologically incorrect claim to make.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
6. Again, defiance. You'd prefer to live in a world controlled by you and not any being more superior. You probably indulge in sinful habits and would prefer to believe in evolution since this theory plays no governing role without rules to abide by.

1) He just said he'd rather beleive in another god then yours....your so blind.

2) Oh yes Flames, we all simply INDULGE in evil, and only live to defy your God 🙄

Us living our lives has nothing to do with any other goal or goodness...its ALL about inentional defiance of your God and evil just for evil's sake.

You have proven how deluded and close minded you truly are. 👆 Thanks for making that clear.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
Does that answer your question?

No. you haven't answered how the Bible is Truth. You just keep vomitting the same BS over and over.