Originally posted by PirateDiva
How is she going to Marry Will and then still go and try to kiss Jack after she is already married!! Ugh!!! How is she going to show feelings for the man we all (well us Sparrabethers anyways) know she should be with yet still go and be with Will!! grrr
Stupid Lizzy is gonna regret it for the rest of her life! She's gonna get very very bored after a while, kid or no kid. I totally get it 'cos I'm kinda in the same boat.
I don't know if I would say "bored," To Freedom. A kid does take a lot of time, especially if you also work. As far as we know, Elizabeth is still the pirate king at the end of AWE, so I'm sure she's had a busy 10 years. I would say the right word to use is lonely. She can have lots of friends and be very close to her little boy, but at night when she goes to bed, she's alone. She can't tell anyone how her day was or ask someone how his day was. She can't go home and have an adult conversation with someone. Will Junior is still at that age where he can't really be her friend in addition to her son. I hope she has the good sense to get a dog and/or just build up as many hobbies as possible. I'm sure she sends a lot of correspondence to Will.
I'm sure getting proposed to in the middle of a sea battle as the ship is swirled around in a whirlpool in the rain is very romantic (cough) but if she had any second thoughts at all, she should have said no. And from what I gather from the movies, she did have some reasonable doubt as to whether she and Will could have a successful marriage. Hmmm.
Thanks for all the kind words about my siggy! I just came up with the idea. Savvy did all the work and helped me learn how to display it, so she is the one responsible for the construction. I'm just the humble architect.
Over at Tasty Pirates we had discussion about this about a week ago.....before AWE came out there were rumors and leaked comments about a "forced" wedding....some thought Jack and lizzy were going to be "forced" to marry each other at the Brethren Court...remember that? Well, we've decided that a forced marriage did in fact take place.....if you think about it, Will kind of puts Lizzy on the spot...in the heat of battle, in front of the crew..."will you marry me?".....it's kind of like someone proposing to you in a crowd in a stadium and the plane flies overhead with a banner attached "Elizabeth, will you marry me? William".......and then he adds more to it by saying "i've made my choice, what about you?" what is she to say..they are fighting....death may be at hand, there is really no time to think....so she says yes....
look at that last picture Diva posted.....that whole entire goodbye scene....she looks kind of sad to me....at times she smiles, but to me it reminds me of one of those smiles that is hiding tears.....look closely, that smile looks like a smile that is a smile that shows she is trying to be brave, to be happy, but deep down inside...she isn't...she's leaving something behind.....something she may want more than what she's got......
I don't care what anyone says...but everytime Elizabeth looks at Jack she can't help but have a little smile.....a look in her eyes that wants to gobble him up....I don't know maybe it's Keira's fault....maybe it's the fangirl in her that can't look at Johnny without that expression on her face...cuz I never really saw that expression when she looks at Will.....
but with Jack it's the same way...there is a certain tenderness in his eyes, in his gaze when he looks at Elizabeth....
look at Willo's siggy....I sent that pic to Savvy....the stolen glance...to me that moment of stolen glances between them tells the whole story. The battle is over......they've destroyed Beckett, the Armada of British ships has turned away, the Pirates are celebrating...Will is immortal and capt of the FD.....and yet in the midst of all this celebration and emotion.....there is Lizzy looking toward Jack with a sad smile, and yet quickly looks away before he or anyone else notices...and as if he feel her eyes caress him, he looks that way too.....they can't help themselves....no matter where they are at, what's going on around them...they always seek each other out with their eyes.....throughout the trilogy...from the moment they meet...they are drawn together....like moths to flames.............
Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth Swann......forever together......fate, destiny......tragic, forbidden, denied....yet, yearned for......
Ah....i feel tears in my eyes over the saddness of it alll....
I think once Lizzy is settled on that island, alone and time to think things through...she will find herself missing someone more than she ever imagined...and I don't think it's going to be Will....i think it will be Jack....
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Over at Tasty Pirates we had discussion about this about a week ago.....before AWE came out there were rumors and leaked comments about a "forced" wedding....some thought Jack and lizzy were going to be "forced" to marry each other at the Brethren Court...remember that? Well, we've decided that a forced marriage did in fact take place.....if you think about it, Will kind of puts Lizzy on the spot...in the heat of battle, in front of the crew..."will you marry me?".....it's kind of like someone proposing to you in a crowd in a stadium and the plane flies overhead with a banner attached "Elizabeth, will you marry me? William".......and then he adds more to it by saying "i've made my choice, what about you?" what is she to say..they are fighting....death may be at hand, there is really no time to think....so she says yes....look at that last picture Diva posted.....that whole entire goodbye scene....she looks kind of sad to me....at times she smiles, but to me it reminds me of one of those smiles that is hiding tears.....look closely, that smile looks like a smile that is a smile that shows she is trying to be brave, to be happy, but deep down inside...she isn't...she's leaving something behind.....something she may want more than what she's got......
I don't care what anyone says...but everytime Elizabeth looks at Jack she can't help but have a little smile.....a look in her eyes that wants to gobble him up....I don't know maybe it's Keira's fault....maybe it's the fangirl in her that can't look at Johnny without that expression on her face...cuz I never really saw that expression when she looks at Will.....
but with Jack it's the same way...there is a certain tenderness in his eyes, in his gaze when he looks at Elizabeth....
look at Willo's siggy....I sent that pic to Savvy....the stolen glance...to me that moment of stolen glances between them tells the whole story. The battle is over......they've destroyed Beckett, the Armada of British ships has turned away, the Pirates are celebrating...Will is immortal and capt of the FD.....and yet in the midst of all this celebration and emotion.....there is Lizzy looking toward Jack with a sad smile, and yet quickly looks away before he or anyone else notices...and as if he feel her eyes caress him, he looks that way too.....they can't help themselves....no matter where they are at, what's going on around them...they always seek each other out with their eyes.....throughout the trilogy...from the moment they meet...they are drawn together....like moths to flames.............
Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth Swann......forever together......fate, destiny......tragic, forbidden, denied....yet, yearned for......Ah....i feel tears in my eyes over the saddness of it alll....
I think once Lizzy is settled on that island, alone and time to think things through...she will find herself missing someone more than she ever imagined...and I don't think it's going to be Will....i think it will be Jack....
*stands up and applauds* Oh you amazing girl LoveTT !! Everything that you said was absolutely true, reminding me why I fell in love with in the first place. They can't keep their eyes off eachother, and *is speechless* Actually; you know what, I won't bother saying anything.. because you've said everything so perfectly !
What I will say though is this:
I am remotely happy with the ending of AWE, and how Jack refused to let her kiss him. He knew that if he let her touch him again than it would never be over, and it would only put her in a worse position than she already was in. Kissing somebody that her husband didn't exactly trust right before her sexonthebeachlovescene.. I dk. It only adds to the playful flirting that we all know and have grown to love. The fact that it is never something that is, but rather would could have been.. that sweet sweet desire of something more is what keeps me on this ship..
bawling
Absolutely LOVING those pics you girls posted, it makes my little sparrabethy heart clench and melt all at the same time *sigh* - I guess thats what Sparrabeth kinda is, heart clenches and heart melts? (I blame the fish people for my weirdness this morning).
I made a manip for my fic I want to share ^___^ My little Sparrabeth family 🙂
That's a fun manip. Lovethemtigers, you're so poetic and I think you're right about a lot of things. I wasn't saying though that agreeing to marry Will was forced on Liz in any way. I don't think that's Will's motivation, anyway. I think he's proposing to her for exactly the reason he says: they may never get another chance and if he dies, he would like to die her husband rather than just the ex-blacksmith who got his cup of tea slapped out of his hand.
It would be very interesting to have a multiple-ending version. Because, and hear me out, I think no matter what Elizabeth chose, she would have regretted something. It's the same reason why a lot of brides cry on their wedding day (myself included). We're happy, immensely happy, but it marks the end of an era also. I wasn't going to get to live with my parents anymore or see my brother as much and I would have to share my life with someone and work to make our marriage last. It was time to be an adult.
I think if we got our sparrabeth ending, a happy one with no strings attached, a small part of Elizabeth would regret not choosing Will. Will is stable although not unadventurous, and it's hard to say no to a guy who would die for you and risks everything for you. She's also grown up with him and I'm sure they're closer than the movies make them out to be. I'm sure if things had gone differently on the Dutchman and something happened with James, she would have regretted not choosing Will or Jack. Had she even been left single and unattached, she would probably feel regret at not making a committment to any of the numerous POTC guys.
That said, of course she regrets not choosing Jack. Will has now become the less stable choice. He cannot be there for her as much as he wants to be because of his circumstances (which suck btw and for a crew of willabethers, they sure screwed him over). Time and separation can tear relationships apart. They say in psychology there are three elements of love: intimacy, committment, and passion, and you need all three for there to be true love. There are all kinds of names for the combinations (intimacy/committment is called friendship, passion/intimacy is called romance, etc), but just by being apart for so long, Will and Liz will ultimately lose their intimacy and possibly their committment and passion. It all goes back to how you fell in love in the first place. We don't fall for people who we're away from all the time. We fall in love with people who we have access to.
🙁 You know I get really sad when ppl say that Jack is the least stable choice for Lizzy! We all forget that Jack was forced into Piracy it wasn't by choice...so there was a time when Jack was an honest man but it all went down the drain (well at least the persception of his honorable person) when he released those slaves because he was (is) a good man and had a conscience.
Jack has proven that he can be a good, if not great friend. Even though at times his reasons may prove to be a little devious but in the end Jack would never put Liz or Will in a position he didn't know they couldn't handle, nor would he ultimately allow any harm to happen to them. And there are those who like to argue that Jack doenst give rats arse about Will but i beg to differ. Yes at times it seems that jack does not care calling him Whelp and trading him to Davy but in fact it's only a smart strategic move on his part! When your life depends on all your 5 senses, love and even a caring friendship makes you weaker and vulnerable...and letting his enemies know who he cares for would put Liz and even Will in danger!
So thats why as a Pirate with enemies caring for ppl (or at least showing it) has been cut out from Jack's job description to avoid it being thrown back in his face and making the enemy stronger by giving them the power to get what they need from Jack by threatning the lives of the ppl he cares about!
But just because it has been cut out from his job description doesnt mean Jack is immuned to falling in love or caring for ppl such as Will as we saw the look of desperation, sadness, a terror on his face when Davy stabbed Will! Of course he is use to being a free spirit but things change, take you by surprise and in this case LIZZIE took him by surprise! There is no denying he cares for her (loves her in my opinion) and its obvious since even Beckett's statement, "And what of Miss Swan?" proved to show that Beckett notice him trying to protect her! He was onto them.
Anywhoo my point is that Jack has qualities, has potential, and has proven that he could be loyal...there is no doubt in my mind that Jack could settle down with LIZ! Look at all the sacrifices he's made for her! In fact especially Liz because she was born to priveledge and she chose Piracy, she chose Jack's life! She wants the sea like Jack does and so that would mean that Jack wouldnt even have to settle on land because Liz would more than Happy join him and sail the 7 seas! She has proven herself to be a force no to be reckond with and can hold her own against evil! She is perfect for Jack in every way and they both know it!
Jack has sacrificed so many things for her. Put his own life in danger to save her. He has helped her. In the end he even set his own feelings aside for her so that she could be happy with the life she thinks she wants! They've taught each other so much! Pirate with good hearts is what they are! Love is what I know they feel! And I know that if given the chance Jack would commit to her because he is perfectly capable of feeling what we all feel!
lol...it's always been there just my posts are the ones that are constantly overlooked! so stopped posting my opinons! but every now and then I cant hold it in!
And dont get to use to my benevolace towards Will...lol...but it's the truth! Jack cares for him as a friend and I'll admitt that...but I still dislike him for standing in the way! Seems Jack is a better person than I am...lol...which only goes to prove my point at how wonderful Jack really is! lol
Tigers, I'm not saying Jack wouldn't be a good lover, or even a good husband. I'm saying that comparatively, he is the more unstable choice because of the job/life he chose. While he has some really admirable qualities and for a pirate, is a pretty nice guy, he is still a pirate. He is wanted by the law (and all of us, but for different reasons) and his job is dangerous by its very nature. Any day he could be killed in a sea storm, mutiny, other pirates, law enforcement, magic people, what-have-you.
Liz, for all her romanticism about pirates, tries to stay practical. That's why she just doesn't give in to the lust she feels for Jack. She has a sense of what she should be doing, which is marrying Will and being a good wife to him. That's all I'm saying, that I'm sure she feels some doubt when she contemplates pursuing Jack as a long-term lover and possibly husband.
What she may not know (or does know and it just scares her) is that if she made the offer, he would probably take it.
But didn't Elizabeth chose the same job/life? In fact she is not only a pirate but a Pirate King! She too is now wanted by the law! She lead a war against the EITC. The only people who could have fought to grant her clemancy is Gov. Swann and Norrie but they are both dead now, and in truth not even they could have helped her! Elizabeth dug her roots in to deep with pirates.
Her life now is among the Pirates she can just as easily die in a "sea storm, mutiny, other pirates, law enforcement, magic people, what-have-you" her job is now dangerous as well is it not? So how does that still make Jack the unstable choice, when her life is the same as his now! and if memory serves me right Will is now just as much a pirate as Jack and Liz are (maybe not by choice but still) perhaps even worse because of the curse. He can't even be there 4 Liz even if he wanted too, doesn't that qualify Will as being unstable as well?
Not trying to argue...I just want to understand why it keeps being said that Will is the more stable choice when he personally can't even be there for her?
Now if AWE had ended with Will not being cursed then I would understand that he would be the more stable, suitble choice because theres no doubt that he would be there everyday for her but the way AWE ended Will's stability was kind of ripped away from him.
Where in spending 10 years waiting, raising a child on her own, earning a living for herself and her child on her own, with no shoulder to lean on or cry on, with not a husband to hold her when times get rough, with no one to console her, left alone to figure out problems on her own, keep up a house all by herself, do you find stability? That's not stable at all at least not to me! Will cant even offer her all of that.
"She has a sense of what she should be doing, which is marrying Will and being a good wife to him. That's all I'm saying, that I'm sure she feels some doubt when she contemplates pursuing Jack as a long-term lover and possibly husband."--Willo
But is that what she wants to be doing? Why doubt Jack at least he could actually be there for her....like you said if LIZ gave him the chance he would take it...pirate or not...he is still a man with feelings and clearly he would do anything for her...he has before!
So please help me understand?
I'm not really disagreeing. I think Jack would be great for her, hence my sparrabeth shipping. What I'm trying to do is make sense of Elizabeth's decisions. That's pretty hard to do considering she is so emotion-driven. I'm sure at first she believes Will is the more stable choice all the way up until the end of DMC. He has a job, he's not wanted by the law, she knows him very well and is familiar with him. Will is the familiar.
However, this is what's important: the longer AWE goes on, the less stable Will becomes and Elizabeth becomes more and more like Jack. Will decides to play hardball and makes a deal with Sao Feng and does all this double-crossing and trickery and starts finally turning pirate, which does make him cooler. At the same time, Elizabeth is fulfilling her touch of destiny. She's always wanted to be a pirate and now she's become the leader of them. If they were getting along, they would finally compliment each other and be a good match.
HOWEVER, they are in a fight/misunderstanding all throughout AWE and Elizabeth once again develops through Jack. His understanding of her, the fact that he either directly or indirectly challenges her, eventually makes him the more stable choice. I don't think Elizabeth recognizes this, though. To her, Jack is always going to be a dangerous pirate, a good man, but a dangerous pirate that is not familiar and he's mysterious and enigmatic and all of that.
So at last, Will becomes the captain of the Flying Dutchman after she marries him. I'm sure she thought that once the fighting was over, she and Will would be the Pirate King and uh, King? and they could be together and she could have the adventure and the familiar. So that's why I think she agrees to marry him. But what is ironic is that Will becomes the unstable choice because of what he has to do. Jack becomes the more stable choice.
No one's arguing that Jack is the better match. I'm a firm believer of that. I'm just trying to understand what Elizabeth is thinking and I think SHE feels Jack would be an unstable mate AT FIRST.
Yes, lol. Nail on the head, PirateDiva. Elizabeth must regret the fact she chose Will. And once he picks up a beautiful shipwrecked woman with a sword fetish, he will put a message in a bottle that he's fallen in love with a woman he can actually be with and they'll divorce. Elizabeth, a 30-something divorcee, meets up with Jack and the two have wild, passionate sex years in the making, which satisfies everyone.