Why do you believe in the bible?

Started by JesusIsAlive15 pages

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do you believe in the bible?

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Well it is not a lie. However, based on your rather adament opinion of it - I find it rather difficult to convince you otherwise. But take this into consideration - perhaps those who wrongfully killed others while professing their belief in Christ's divinity - were not truly Christians at all.

Christ's message is a loving one, but please realise my friend - that love isn't just about "doing what makes you feel good." It's about pain, hurt, sacrafice, and many other unpleasant things. But perhaps most importantly - love is about truth.

Everyone can't be right, nor can everyone be wrong. If one believes in a God who is wrong about just one thing - then that means that their God is wrong about everything, and I definitely can't find myself worshipping(or having any other type of relationship with) a fallible God. Particularly one that lies, accepts bribes, and values certain people over others.

I would rather worship one who was flawless by nature, sticks to his word, loves all people, and doesn't base his word on any approval or condemnation he has received. Even if this means that his word, involves something that is unpleasant to myself. To me this is what Christ's word(love) is all about - and it is unchangeable, despite individual acknowledgement(or lack thereof) of his obvious divinity.

Remarkable response. The following Scriptures come to mind after reading your post:

Proverbs 25:11
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold In settings of silver.

Proverbs 10:21
The lips of the righteous feed many, But fools die for lack of wisdom.

👆

i believe in the bible because i choose to. others choose not to because thats their choice.

Theists often seem to be voluntarists, and Christians in particular commonly argue the voluntarist position.

I believe in it cause its Gods word and mans book of life

Originally posted by Face
I believe in it cause its Gods word and mans book of life

What brought you to that conclusion?

thats his opinion, as it is mine. we arent trying to force it on you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats his opinion, as it is mine. we arent trying to force it on you.

I am simple trying to understand something about the point were you were not saved, and when you decided to be saved. What was it about the Bible that made you choose?

i shared my life changing experience with one person here. Lord Urizen. at least i think it was him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i shared my life changing experience with one person here. Lord Urizen. at least i think it was him.

I missed it, plus I don't want your life changing experience, just what was the spark?

I believed in Satan before I believed in God. My life was confusing, depressing, and hopeless. I decided to start reading the Bible and suddenly life made more sense because I realized that what the Bible said about how to live was right. Life became easier, I was happier, joy started to enter my life, I dropped bad habits, prosperity started to come along, etc. I realized that without the Bible I would still be in the dark, and since I knew that the Bible was God's word I figured that anyone to be so right about life, he must be real. Therefore, I chose to believe in God and continue to believe in his word because following it has never led me astray.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I missed it, plus I don't want your life changing experience, just what was the spark?

the spark was when i realized that certain things that had happened in my life were due to divine intervention. some tragic events were avoided, and i suddenly realized how precious life is.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I believed in Satan before I believed in God. My life was confusing, depressing, and hopeless. I decided to start reading the Bible and suddenly life made more sense because I realized that what the Bible said about how to live was right. Life became easier, I was happier, joy started to enter my life, I dropped bad habits, prosperity started to come along, etc. I realized that without the Bible I would still be in the dark, and since I knew that the Bible was God's word I figured that anyone to be so right about life, he must be real. Therefore, I chose to believe in God and continue to believe in his word because following it has never led me astray.

Well surely when you were feeling depressed if you had gone to a councilor, psychiatrist ect, they would have told you how to live just as well as the bible

would that have then ment you belived in councilors? and worshiped them?

Originally posted by Nellinator
I believed in Satan before I believed in God. My life was confusing, depressing, and hopeless. I decided to start reading the Bible and suddenly life made more sense because I realized that what the Bible said about how to live was right. Life became easier, I was happier, joy started to enter my life, I dropped bad habits, prosperity started to come along, etc. I realized that without the Bible I would still be in the dark, and since I knew that the Bible was God's word I figured that anyone to be so right about life, he must be real. Therefore, I chose to believe in God and continue to believe in his word because following it has never led me astray.

I was raised to believe that I should always think for myself, that I should discern fantasy from reality, that violence is not something that should be glorified, and that God is greater than our ability to describe in words or to limit with ideas. For these reasons, I do not accept the Bible as a unique authority on God or any other subject. That does not mean that I dismiss it entirely, however.

To begin with, I will not accept anything just because it is written in the Bible. As far as I am concerned the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament from the Christian point of view) is a collection of the tribal legends, historical records, and religious writings of the ancient Hebrews. I am a modern man - not an ancient Hebrew. Therefore, my entire worldview is informed by scientific data and cultural assumptions that are extremely far removed from those of the ancient Hebrews. Unlike them, just to name a few examples, I am convinced that this universe is billions of years old; that life as it now appears on Earth is part of an ongoing process of evolution; that different languages and dialects developed over time; that it is not an abomination to eat pork, shrimp, or lobster, or to mix beef and dairy products; that slavery is immoral; that it is immoral to execute disrespectful children; and that one is never justified in committing genocide or ethnic cleansing. The ancient Hebrews, however, were ignorant of modern astrophysics, ignorant of geology, ignorant of the fossil record and carbon dating, they believed that all of the existing language groups originated from God's curse at the tower of Babel, they believed that it is an abomination to eat certain kinds of foods or to prepare foods in certain ways, they believed that disrespect to God or one's parent's is a capital offense, they practiced slavery, and they believed that God had commanded them to kill every man, woman, and child in certain towns during the conquest of the promised land (in other cases the men and boys were killed and the woman and girls enslaved). So, for scientific and moral reasons I do not view the Bible as an authority.

The Bible also relates stories wherein a donkey speaks to its master, a flood covers the entire world and all life on earth today is descended from only the animals aboard Noah's ark, a woman turns into a pillar of salt, people are lifted up bodily into the heavens never to return, the sun stands still in the sky, and finally a man physically comes back from the dead and proceeds to walk through walls and ascend bodily into the heavens. I am leaving out a lot of other miraculous tales that are either logistically impossible, or which could be explained in a more rational way. The point is that the reality I live in does not operate that way, and I have never been given any good reason to believe that any of these things happened in real life other than the testimony of the ancient Hebrews who (as I said) had a prescientific mythical worldview; and the testimony of a small sect of Judaism which became the nucleus of a minor mystery religion in the Roman Empire, which eventually became the official religion of that empire, which then become the reigning religious ideology of various European nation-states. I must say that I require objective, empirical, and verifiable and irrefutable evidence before I throw common sense out the window and accept that any of these things happened in real life.

I also cannot accept the Biblical God's use of violence, terror, and threats to get people to do what He wants. This includes Joshua's conquest of the promised land, the behavior of the Judges, Jesus and St. Paul's threats of eternal damnation for those who do not believe, and finally the Armageddon promised in the Book of Revelations. Jesus even says at one point that he comes not to bring peace but a sword to divide families against one another (Matthew 10:34). It seems to me that the violence and threats of violence in the Bible are nothing more than a very human way of abdicating responsibility and laying all of our very human shortcomings at God's door. I do not accept the Biblical portrait of a God who commands, condones, and makes use of violence and terror. I do not believe that everything that could be said about such an infinite reality as God has been said in the Bible.

"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it ." --The Buddha Sakyamuni

Originally posted by the Darkone
^exactly.

Jesus existed fact
Jesus was crucified fact.
Moses exited fact.
Hebrews leaving Egypt fact.
Israel became a nation once again May 15,1948 fact.
Daniel thrown into the lions den fact.

Did he "exited" before or after the Hebrews were leaving Egypt --😆

Originally posted by LFBC_Gir
No not because so many people have written it, the fact that most of the copies are incredibly accurate to what we would consider "closest to the original" I believe the Bible is the written word of God because my faith is built upon it. My foundation is Christ's teachings and coincidently His teachings came from OT priciples. The Apostles and other writers pretty much wrote commentaries on what Jesus taught so that churches would catch the vision and stop being dumb. (no church is perfect)

Riddle for you? What do you call the getting together of a sock -- that's copying another sock -- of an individual who's socking another?

Answer: A sock hop...He..He..He..

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do you believe in the bible?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
This is the Legendary Christian cop out. "They weren't REAL CHRISTIANS".....

Whose a real Christian these days? What intepretations of the Bible are correct and what are not ? How do you tell?

Is Literalism true Christianity ? Or is it personal intepretation of the Bible ? Or is there some kind of compass you find to guage correct Christianity verses corrupted Christianity ?

Mormons? Catholics ? Baptists ? Evangelicals? Utalitarian ? Who are the REAL CHRISTIANS ?

Christianity, like all other things, can only be accurately judged by its ENTIRETY, not by its preferred aspect. Christianity is the atmosphere created by Christians, ALL CHRISTIANS, good and bad.

Your religion encompasses all who claim it. Please stop trying to separate yourself from your spiritual kinfolk by saying " oh their not like me...im a real christian, they aren't "

A real Christian is one who loves Christ(God) more than anyone else -- and only second to that -- loves their brother more than they love themselves.

What is love? Well love is Christ -- and being loving, is following Christ's word. You either choose to believe his word is "loving" or you don't. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So If I torture you, that means I love you ?

Only if you equate truth with torture.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If I control you, that means I love you?

It is better to have self control, then to control an entire army.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If I kill you, that means I love you ?

If I let you live with a lie - does that mean I'm loving?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
watch how you use your words.....your own words can get you in trouble.

Possibly -- but I'd rather get in *trouble* telling the truth, then receive rewards telling a lie.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So how do you know your God is perfect ? Do you know what perfection is ? Have you ever met God ? Had a full conversation with him ?

How do you know he isn't perfect? Being imperfect beings -- and having limited knowledge -- how is it even possible for us to recognize perfection?

Simple answer -- it is not. However - we still have much evidence *for* God's love and perfection around us. The fact that we are both still alive today -- the fact that God allows each of us to continue existing, despite our sinful nature -- is proof of his love. We are all living under the grace and love of God right now. You either have faith in this love and/or perfection that Christ personifies - or you don't. Once again Urizen..it's that simple.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then you have a major problem ✅

The Bible, Christ's followers, and Christianity as a whole all contradicts itself and each other.

Consistancy and Clarity are two of the things Christianity severely lacks and always had.

If one has never had clarity to begin with, believes in the subjectivity of everything, and/or is never consistent with anything they say -- how can they expect to recognize such concepts -- when they are glaringly presented before them?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Unchangeable ? Are you aware that the Bible has been translated and editted numerous times ?

Are you aware that Christianity has evolved drastically over the centuries and is ever changing, ever reforming, and ever dividing ?

How can you claim God is unchanging when his representations here on Earth (The Bible and his people) are ever changing ?

God remains true - despite the subjective interpretations that man gives him. Look around you Urizen - have your words changed anything regarding my opinion of God(Love) - or have they changed anything in regards to the world around you. Sadly(to you of course) -- they have not.

When your words have proven the ability to change all of these things, then I will put my faith in them. Until then -- I will stick with my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Good day to you Urizen. God bless.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do you believe in the bible?

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
A real Christian is one who loves Christ(God) more than anyone else -- and only second to that -- loves their brother more than they love themselves.
So you're saying there is less that two real Christians? I mean, only one person can love God more than anyone else, and if that person doesn't have a brother, well, it's not a christian. Oh, and what if two people love Jesus the same amount?

Wait, what do you mean by love anyway?

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
What is love? Well love is Christ -- and being loving, is following Christ's word. You either choose to believe his word is "loving" or you don't. It's that simple.
Eh? So you're saying a true Christian is someone who Jesuses Jesus more than anyone else and Jesuses their brother more than they Jesus themself?

And what are you saying it's that simple? What you said is more weird, scary, confusing and dangerous rather than simple.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Good day to you Urizen. God bless.
Great way to piss off an atheist you got there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i shared my life changing experience with one person here. Lord Urizen. at least i think it was him.

Yes you did. I appreciated it, and respect it.

But I am not convinced as to why I should beleive. You suffer, I suffer, we ALL suffer. Your suffering is no more meaningful than my own, nor is mine more meaningful than yours.

We all suffer, we all find ways to ease that, we all find something to make us stronger, and we have every right to it.

You have the right to beleive in God, I have the right to beleive something else. However, we also have the right to question each other's beleifs.

Originally posted by sammii
Well surely when you were feeling depressed if you had gone to a councilor, psychiatrist ect, they would have told you how to live just as well as the bible

would that have then ment you belived in councilors? and worshiped them?


Ironic because I am a counselling psychologist.
Originally posted by mahasattva
I was raised to believe that I should always think for myself, that I should discern fantasy from reality, that violence is not something that should be glorified, and that God is greater than our ability to describe in words or to limit with ideas. For these reasons, I do not accept the Bible as a unique authority on God or any other subject. That does not mean that I dismiss it entirely, however.

To begin with, I will not accept anything just because it is written in the Bible. As far as I am concerned the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament from the Christian point of view) is a collection of the tribal legends, historical records, and religious writings of the ancient Hebrews. I am a modern man - not an ancient Hebrew. Therefore, my entire worldview is informed by scientific data and cultural assumptions that are extremely far removed from those of the ancient Hebrews. Unlike them, just to name a few examples, I am convinced that this universe is billions of years old; that life as it now appears on Earth is part of an ongoing process of evolution; that different languages and dialects developed over time; that it is not an abomination to eat pork, shrimp, or lobster, or to mix beef and dairy products; that slavery is immoral; that it is immoral to execute disrespectful children; and that one is never justified in committing genocide or ethnic cleansing. The ancient Hebrews, however, were ignorant of modern astrophysics, ignorant of geology, ignorant of the fossil record and carbon dating, they believed that all of the existing language groups originated from God's curse at the tower of Babel, they believed that it is an abomination to eat certain kinds of foods or to prepare foods in certain ways, they believed that disrespect to God or one's parent's is a capital offense, they practiced slavery, and they believed that God had commanded them to kill every man, woman, and child in certain towns during the conquest of the promised land (in other cases the men and boys were killed and the woman and girls enslaved). So, for scientific and moral reasons I do not view the Bible as an authority.

The Bible also relates stories wherein a donkey speaks to its master, a flood covers the entire world and all life on earth today is descended from only the animals aboard Noah's ark, a woman turns into a pillar of salt, people are lifted up bodily into the heavens never to return, the sun stands still in the sky, and finally a man physically comes back from the dead and proceeds to walk through walls and ascend bodily into the heavens. I am leaving out a lot of other miraculous tales that are either logistically impossible, or which could be explained in a more rational way. The point is that the reality I live in does not operate that way, and I have never been given any good reason to believe that any of these things happened in real life other than the testimony of the ancient Hebrews who (as I said) had a prescientific mythical worldview; and the testimony of a small sect of Judaism which became the nucleus of a minor mystery religion in the Roman Empire, which eventually became the official religion of that empire, which then become the reigning religious ideology of various European nation-states. I must say that I require objective, empirical, and verifiable and irrefutable evidence before I throw common sense out the window and accept that any of these things happened in real life.

I also cannot accept the Biblical God's use of violence, terror, and threats to get people to do what He wants. This includes Joshua's conquest of the promised land, the behavior of the Judges, Jesus and St. Paul's threats of eternal damnation for those who do not believe, and finally the Armageddon promised in the Book of Revelations. Jesus even says at one point that he comes not to bring peace but a sword to divide families against one another (Matthew 10:34). It seems to me that the violence and threats of violence in the Bible are nothing more than a very human way of abdicating responsibility and laying all of our very human shortcomings at God's door. I do not accept the Biblical portrait of a God who commands, condones, and makes use of violence and terror. I do not believe that everything that could be said about such an infinite reality as God has been said in the Bible.

"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it ." --[B]The Buddha Sakyamuni
[/B]


This has nothing to do with what I said. Though, your Buddha quote actually shows my course of action to be wise because it is basically what I did.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i believe in the bible because i choose to. others choose not to because thats their choice.
You can choose your beliefs now?