Why do you believe in the bible?

Started by Lord Urizen15 pages
Originally posted by Regret
I do not nitpick, I blatantly disregard all explanations of behavior by way of mentalist fiction. I will present their claims if such comes up, and questions are asked, but I am a behavior analyst. Many of us [behavior analysts] even dislike and avoid the terms psychologist and psychology, as one cannot truly empirically study the "mind" as there is, at least speaking to the evidence at hand, no such thing.

Psychologists beg to differ 😆

And seeing as how Pyschology/Psychiatry has evolved at a much more consistant rate, and has worked wondors with many of our usual mental cases, I wouldn't go so far as to disregard it all the way 😉

Now, as for questioning Pyschology, yes. I beleive we should question EVERYTHING, even the data that serves our favor.

Originally posted by Regret
Once again, you show an utter lack of knowledge on the subject of psychology.

Really ? Oh greater than thou, please show me the error of my ways....

Originally posted by Regret
Behavior analysis is a fact. It is the most solid and heavily supported stance in psychology. It has been shown repetitively to be a fact. All behavioral principles are repeatedly tested and retested. Behavior analysis is as solid as any statement in physics or any other "hard" science.

Let me rephrase my argument, as I now see that I made the incorrect statement that Behavior Analysis was non-factual or unsupported. That is NOT what I meant.

What I meant was you are using Behavior Analysis in comparison to Theological concept of punishment. I understand and admire your attempt to integrate science and religion to support your beleif, however I heavily disagree.

Using Punishment in its social concept, NOT scientific concept, it is evident that PUNISHMENT does NOT always work.

Theology also does NOT use behaviorist definition of Punishment, only you are using it.

Religion in general, uses the social idea of punishment. If you look at the Bible, the concept "eye for an eye" is a punishment ideal, that has NO real successful basis for correction of an immoral behavior, in any way what-so-ever.

Even Pyschology rejects Punishment as a "quick fix" or "means of correction" which you are trying to push. It doesn't work bro....not in religion, not in reality.

Religion pushes the "punishment" of sin, but do you honestly beleive that punishing someone will stop them from further "sinning" ?

And Hell....how can ETERNAL punishment correct a behavior ?

Originally posted by Regret
A flawed lay definition of a term is irrelevant. When I speak of punishment I am referring to the scientific definition I provided.

But it's IRREVELANT entirely, since it does not logically apply to religion OR the concept of Hell.

Punishment by Theology is the inflicting of suffering, discouragement, or regret for a "sinful" action or thought. Your presented definition does not apply, since the terms of punishment are not being used consistantly.

Originally posted by Regret
I never claimed anything was a mental illness, let alone homosexuality. I merely stated that it can be considered such, depending on the individual case. Use of the term survive was in error, here is a better statement:

Heterosexuality or Bisexuality can be just as much a "mental illness" as homosexuality. Since homosexuality itself causes no harm, the STIGMA and Homophobia that is caused is the true catalyst of any "mental illness" here.

Originally posted by Regret
Mental disorders will fit at least one, but could fit more, of the following:

[list=1][*]Present distress[*]Disability[*]Significantly increase risk of suffering, death, pain, disability, an important loss of freedom[/list]

Caused by what ? Homosexuality, or Homophobia ?

I think Homophobia is more of a mental illness than homosexuality could ever be 😬

Originally posted by Regret
At one point being homosexual resulted in the third being a consideration, and was thus considered to be a problem. I never claimed homosexuality was a mental illness, but it can be considered such depending on the individual and the context. Nearly all behaviors can be considered problematic in the proper context, and if rates exist to an abnormal level.

At what point do you speak of ?

Are you trying to push the idea that STD's is somehow EXCLUSIVE to Homosexual sex ?

Technically, Heterosexuality spawns more suffering, since the majority of people who SUFFER from STD's happen to be..... HETEROSEXUAL ! 😱

Originally posted by Regret
I believe that choice disappears at some point. I believe there are addicts (not including addicts at birth to to maternal error.) Do they currently have a choice as to whether or not to do the drug? Not in all cases, does this mean doing drugs initially was not a choice? Not at all, their past choices resulted in the present inability to choose, or rather the inability to alter their behavior without aid. This in no manner contradicts the belief that homosexual behaviors were chosen. Also, my belief is that homosexuality was chosen. So far science has not shown it to be otherwise.

Your beleif has no valid support however ❌

Homosexuality at its ROOT is homosexual attraction. Not homosexual sex, not homosexual thoughts....homosexual ATTRACTION.

Do you choose your attractions ? If so, please prove this to me....

Your Drug Addict analogy is not only OFFENSIVE but poor and unsuccessful. 👇

Your analogy implies that a Homosexual is NOT homosexual until he or she starts having sex. That is not the case, since there are plenty of homosexual and bisexual Virgins.

Now....that only leaves the possibility, according to your theory, that homosexual attraction is somehow chosen by the person. Okay...if that is the case, then name a possible scenario where a person chooses who they are attracted to....prove it to me somehow, if you CAN.

As a person who knows a great deal about Psychology, you must surely realize that the attraction OR desire for something must occur BEFORE the thought or action does....

So I ask you...where does the attraction come from ?

And why would someone willingly choose a MIND SET that would result in thier social isolation and discrimination ?

Originally posted by Regret
Oh, and btw thanks for keeping in form and bringing up the homosexual agenda of Urizen again 🙄

I used homosexuality once being considered a mental illness as support for my claim that Scientific Fact is not absolute, and that studies are ever-changing.

Again, enough with the whole "you keep talking about being Gay"...why do you keep talking about being a Mormon ? If I should only keep my sexuality discussions in "homosexual" threads, than YOU should only keep your Mormon beleifs and perspective in MORMON threads.... 🙄

You have your beleifs, I have mine....

I believe in the bible because Lot's Daughters had sex with their father. Reuben son of Jacob had sex with his step mother, and the bible has lots of funny incest stories. and I am just ROFLING because the minister in the church doesnt read those verses.

Originally posted by Smiter
I believe in the bible because Lot's Daughters had sex with their father. Reuben son of Jacob had sex with his step mother, and the bible has lots of funny incest stories. and I am just ROFLING because the minister in the church doesnt read those verses.

😆 😆 😆 😆

Man I cant keep my jokes off religion and sex maybe because im Horny good at making jokes about religion and sex.

Originally posted by Smiter
Man I cant keep my jokes off religion and sex maybe because im Horny good at making jokes about religion and sex.

A good Blowjob may help droolio

I can get those.. from hoez.. to get a good O'z. Aw shit I can Rap

Originally posted by Smiter
I can get those.. from hoez.. to get a good O'z. Aw shit I can Rap

Yo Yo

yo yoo yoo yoooo

GOD IS GANGSTA YO !

WHO DOWN WIT G-O-D ?

YOU DOWN WITH G-O-D ? YEAH YOU KNOW ME !

- from Faith, hilarious movie.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]Psychologists beg to differ 😆

And seeing as how Pyschology/Psychiatry has evolved at a much more consistant rate, and has worked wondors with many of our usual mental cases, I wouldn't go so far as to disregard it all the way 😉

Now, as for questioning Pyschology, yes. I beleive we should question EVERYTHING, even the data that serves our favor.[/b]

Their wonders can be explained using actual scientific fact, and not mentalist fiction. I do not disregard the value of what they do. Even an atheits will state that belief in deity, particularly in the form of some religions, can provide benefits to some individuals. Also, placebo is wonderful. If someone says and as acts as if they have low self-esteem and then we speak mentalistically about the good things about a person and the person then does not speak and act as though they have low self esteem, objectively all we can say is that we have altered the behaviors that are described as low self-esteem, we cannot objectively state that we have done anything internally, although such may possibly be the case there is no evidence of such.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Really ? Oh greater than thou, please show me the error of my ways....
I have stated the errors you have already exhibited.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Let me rephrase my argument, as I now see that I made the incorrect statement that Behavior Analysis was non-factual or unsupported. That is NOT what I meant.

What I meant was you are using Behavior Analysis in comparison to Theological concept of punishment. I understand and admire your attempt to integrate science and religion to support your beleif, however I heavily disagree.

Using Punishment in its social concept, NOT scientific concept, it is evident that PUNISHMENT does NOT always work.

Theology also does NOT use behaviorist definition of Punishment, only you are using it.

Religion in general, uses the social idea of punishment. If you look at the Bible, the concept "eye for an eye" is a punishment ideal, that has NO real successful basis for correction of an immoral behavior, in any way what-so-ever.

Even Pyschology rejects Punishment as a "quick fix" or "means of correction" which you are trying to push. It doesn't work bro....not in religion, not in reality.

Religion pushes the "punishment" of sin, but do you honestly beleive that punishing someone will stop them from further "sinning" ?

And Hell....how can ETERNAL punishment correct a behavior ?

An eternal punishment does not correct behavior, it inhibits the ability to behave improperly. Punishment does not ever correct behavior, punishment decreases the probability of the punished behavior occurring. Correcting behavior is impossible, altering the probability and rate of behavior is all there is.

Punishment and reinforcement, used properly as consequence for various behaviors, are not rejected by any psychologist.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But it's [b]IRREVELANT entirely, since it does not logically apply to religion OR the concept of Hell.

Punishment by Theology is the inflicting of suffering, discouragement, or regret for a "sinful" action or thought. Your presented definition does not apply, since the terms of punishment are not being used consistantly.[/B]

It is not irrelevant, since, if God is perfect, he uses the terms properly. Punishment is often the consequence of sinful behavior, reinforcement or, in theological terms, blessing is the consequence of proper behavior, in theology. My definitions are entirely consistent with scripture. If they are the proper and correct usage, they are the definitions used by deity.

Regardless of you perspective on religion Urizen, most religious individuals do not share you view of the subject

😛

we seriously gonna read all that long novel/reply you created?

Originally posted by Smiter
we seriously gonna read all that long novel/reply you created?

That's what he asks of us...

Ok, In all Seriousness. I Believe the bible to some extent. I believe in God and in Jesus Christ. I try to follow the teachings specially the Golden rule: Do unto others as you have them do unto you.

But if I combine the Bible with Orgasmism, thats a force to be reckon with, specially my girl is also teaching me the Muslim ways.

I have a F0cking three-way of beliefs. Christian+Orgasmims+Muslim

Originally posted by Smiter
Ok, In all Seriousness. I Believe the bible to some extent. I believe in God and in Jesus Christ. I try to follow the teachings specially the Golden rule: Do unto others as you have them do unto you.

But if I combine the Bible with Orgasmism, thats a force to be reckon with, specially my girl is also teaching me the Muslim ways.

I have a F0cking three-way of beliefs. Christian+Orgasmims+Muslim

threesome huh ? The more the merrier droolio

We need Egalitarianism also to have a full force

Christianity/Bible = God exist+Golden Rule+Do good+ 10 commandments
Orgasmism = How God creates Children through Holy Spirit
Muslim's Teachings =There is Hell but its only temporary depending on your sins
Egalitarianism = everyones equal.

Combine all 4 and you got to COME

Originally posted by Smiter
We need Egalitarianism also to have a full force

Christianity/Bible = God exist+Golden Rule+Do good+ 10 commandments
Orgasmism = How God creates Children through Holy Spirit
Muslim's Teachings =There is Hell but its only temporary depending on your sins
Egalitarianism = everyones equal.

Combine all 4 and you got to COME

CUM-- a union of Faiths....how delicious droolio

😂

Originally posted by Smiter
😂

😆

droolio

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But is not consistant with social definitions of the SAME terms. Punishment does NOT always work the way its INTENDED

I love how you claim to trust psychology, but will nitpick the teachings that are more favorable, while ignoring what isn't convienent for you to argue.

1) You cannot just [b]nitpick certain teaching of psychology, and then ignore the others. Again, it is painfully CLEAR AND SELF EVIDENT that you are allowing your religious bias to choose what part of psychology you beleive, and what part to disregard.

You trust Behavioral Theories, even though they are not proven, nor do they validly translate into the social definitions of the same terms, but then you want to INSIST that Homosexuality is a mental illness, EVEN THOUGH Psychology TEACHES it is NOT.

Please stop with the Hypocrisy, because it is getting REPETITIVE and sickening.

2) Homosexuality in itself does NOT interfere with one's ability to survive. Homophobia and SOCIAL STIGMA does.....these two factors are ALSO to blame for one's beleif that one has a problem if one is homosexual.

3) Now, let's just say for arguments sake, that if a person is a homosexual and is NOT exposed to massive homophobia or stigma, but would rather have heterosexual desires, then and only then can we say this person is mentally ill, because he or she is not living a life where they are content or at peace.

Again, this only proves that Homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE, even though you fkn continue to INSIST it is.

I love how you present factual information that CONTRADICTS your personal beleifs, and then ignore the obvious contradictions..... 🙄

I attack science and religion the same, and since Scientific Data has changed over the centuries, I don't feel like I'm taking a huge risk challenging it. However, since science holds more validity than religion, I try to be more careful 😉 [/B]


Regret is not wrong. Top 100 Psychologists
Look at this. Regret bases a lot of his psychological principles on the work of BF Skinner. There are several camps in psychology with different views, however, I can guarentee that Regret is not a minority or being ignorant. Read this link, or at least look at the lists on pages 142, 144, and 146-7. Skinner is considered the greatest psychologist to ever live, his theories are tried and true, and he has huge following because of the effectiveness and realism of his views and proposed practices. You will see Carl Rogers at 6th, but he apparently has no effect on Regret's principles (mostly, probably because he was more into psychotherapy). This is not uncommon, or incorrect.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Regret is not wrong. Top 100 Psychologists
Look at this. Regret bases a lot of his psychological principles on the work of BF Skinner. There are several camps in psychology with different views, however, I can guarentee that Regret is not a minority or being ignorant. Read this link, or at least look at the lists on pages 142, 144, and 146-7. Skinner is considered the greatest psychologist to ever live, his theories are tried and true, and he has huge following because of the effectiveness and realism of his views and proposed practices. You will see Carl Rogers at 6th, but he apparently has no effect on Regret's principles (mostly, probably because he was more into psychotherapy). This is not uncommon, or incorrect.

What is Regret not wrong about, because we were arguing atleast 3 different points....

I was mostly talking about 1.
Regret is not nitpicking. He follows a certain school of thought, the most popular and best proven school of behavior analysis and treatment. Under Skinner's theories of operant conditioning, any behavior or thought process can be treated and changed through conditioning. Regret believes this, as do I in most cases. Not all psychology teaches that homosexuality is not a mental illness. According, to Regret's definition homosexuality is not necessarily a mental illness, but can be one. When it is, it is prudent and important to help the person change that behavior and their thinking through conditioning.