Why do you believe in the bible?

Originally posted by Nellinator
I was mostly talking about 1.
Regret is not nitpicking. He follows a certain school of thought, the most popular and best proven school of behavior analysis and treatment. Under Skinner's theories of operant conditioning, any behavior or thought process can be treated and changed through conditioning. Regret believes this, as do I in most cases. Not all psychology teaches that homosexuality is not a mental illness. According, to Regret's definition homosexuality is not necessarily a mental illness, but can be one. When it is, it is prudent and important to help the person change that behavior and their thinking through conditioning.

The same can be said for blind allegience to fairy tale gods and saints that interest themselves in the daily events of humanity. That's not to say that all christians are hate spewing idealouges who blindly follow bronze age versions of Grimm's fairy tales, but a lot of them are.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
The same can be said for blind allegience to fairy tale gods and saints that interest themselves in the daily events of humanity. That's not to say that all christians are hate spewing idealouges who blindly follow bronze age versions of Grimm's fairy tales, but a lot of them are.

That was good. 😈

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
The same can be said for blind allegience to fairy tale gods and saints that interest themselves in the daily events of humanity. That's not to say that all christians are hate spewing idealouges who blindly follow bronze age versions of Grimm's fairy tales, but a lot of them are.

Not to mention that your post had nothing to do with what I said. Why do you seek to create anger and spiteful argument by bringing up irrelevant topics?

Originally posted by Nellinator
You must know that your baseless, hate filled claims are pretty pointless. You ask for an impersonal god? I love the fact that God cares about my personal life and cares about how well I do in life, that he cares about how I treat others and loves me.

I would prefer a logical God whose claims matched his actions...

He is a loving yet aloof God. I don't know he loves me, I just have other peoples claims that he does. And he has policies that frankly don't sit well with a loving God (sorry, but Job continues to be a sticking point for me. I'd like to see a parent let someone do that to their child they love so much and not get questioned at least a little by social services.)

Really I think it shouldn't be both - God is either impersonal and removed from the affairs of man, or he cares a lot and express it. Not he cares a lot but doesn't express it. And yes, I know it comes down to ones definition of expressing love - for some people being told God loves them is enough.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I would prefer a logical God whose claims matched his actions...

He is a loving yet aloof God. I don't know he loves me, I just have other peoples claims that he does. And he has policies that frankly don't sit well with a loving God (sorry, but Job continues to be a sticking point for me. I'd like to see a parent let someone do that to their child they love so much and not get questioned at least a little by social services.)

Really I think it shouldn't be both - God is either impersonal and removed from the affairs of man, or he cares a lot and express it. Not he cares a lot but doesn't express it. And yes, I know it comes down to ones definition of expressing love - for some people being told God loves them is enough.

Gaaah! You have heard of the expression - "for every little bit you give, that's exactly what you get back in return" - have you not?

That's what it all boils down to - when one desires to have a relationship with God(Love). You have to make the first step to obtain this relationship, or in other words - you have to show God that you are interested in having a relationship with him.

And before you try to flip things around -- let's be honest - you(and most others) wouldn't really respect(or desire) to be with him if he was desperate for this relationship with you.(scary thought isn't it? To be desired by a desperate God. I wouldn't want to follow a needy or emotionally lacking God would you?)

Actually - he *has* already proven though - that he wants to be with all of us(through his sacrafice on the cross).

So...what do you think all of this means? Basically it means that God's not going to chase after anyone, particularly those who show very little desire to be with him(through their words and actions). But he always makes himself(God) and his *love* equally available to all of his children - and I can guarantee you, that he does indeed *love* them all the same. They simply need to make themselves available(to receive him).

If you own a bible - or you have access to one - I recommend picking it up, and just opening it at random. Before you do this though - pray(to God) that he directs you to the verse that he wants you to read, and that you understand the meaning behind it. You'll be amazed at the things that will be revealed to you.

I must warn you though - in order for you to receive any type of revelation from performing the act above - you must first have an *open* mind - and an *open* heart. If neither of these is present at the time - then you will not receive anything(from performing the actions I've described).

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Gaaah! You have heard of the expression - "for every little bit you give, that's exactly what you get back in return" - have you not?

That's what it all boils down to - when one desires to have a relationship with God(Love). You have to make the first step to obtain this relationship, or in other words - you have to show God that you are interested in having a relationship with him.

And before you try to flip things around -- let's be honest - you(and most others) wouldn't really respect(or desire) to be with him if he was desperate for this relationship with you.(scary thought isn't it? To be desired by a desperate God. I wouldn't want to follow a needy or emotionally lacking God would you?)

Actually - he *has* already proven though - that he wants to be with all of us(through his sacrafice on the cross).

So...what do you think all of this means? Basically it means that God's not going to chase after anyone, particularly those who show very little desire to be with him(through their words and actions). But he always makes himself(God) and his *love* equally available to all of his children - and I can guarantee you, that he does indeed *love* them all the same. They simply need to make themselves available(to receive him).

If you own a bible - or you have access to one - I recommend picking it up, and just opening it at random. Before you do this though - pray(to God) that he directs you to the verse that he wants you to read, and that you understand the meaning behind it. You'll be amazed at the things that will be revealed to you.

I must warn you though - in order for you to receive any type of revelation from performing the act above - you must first have an *open* mind - and an *open* heart. If neither of these is present at the time - then you will not receive anything(from performing the actions I've described).

So your point is that True Love is only a Christian thing ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So your point is that True Love is only a Christian thing ?

He does not even know what true love is.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He does not even know what true love is.

I'm sure he does, but he is mistaking it, or intentionally projecting it onto his concept of Christian Love.

I think we all have or will experience true love some time in our life...and i dont just mean "romantic love", i mean the love that exists between anybody.

He is just misguided by the beleif that Love is only VALID if its source is from the Bible.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'm sure he does, but he is mistaking it, or intentionally projecting it onto his concept of Christian Love.

I think we all have or will experience true love some time in our life...and i dont just mean "romantic love", i mean the love that exists between anybody.

He is just misguided by the beleif that Love is only VALID if its source is from the Bible.

Ask him this: (he just ignores me) What would you call it, if a Christian gave up their salvation to be with someone in hell for eternity?

Originally posted by Nellinator
You must know that your baseless, hate filled claims are pretty pointless. You ask for an impersonal god? I love the fact that God cares about my personal life and cares about how well I do in life, that he cares about how I treat others and loves me. Of course, you could care less about backing up your statements with anything other than blind hatred. You sound more and more angry and hate filled everyday and you lsoe rationality, logic, credibility, and my respect. Of course, you are still convinced that I hate you for being a homosexual (something I didn't even know until last week) and all homosexuals for that matter. Now, since this is not true, you lose credibility. When you decide to contribute to the debate please speak to me again.

Not to mention that your post had nothing to do with what I said. Why do you seek to create anger and spiteful argument by bringing up irrelevant topics?

I must know? I must know and accept what you believe? No. That's not how free will works.

You keep accusing me of hatred, but I'm not the one who says "I'm right, and you're wrong, and for it you're going to burn in an eternal pit of fire and suffereing". Wanna know the difference? I'm not going to pretend, for the sake of "gods" favor, that I give two shits about your eternal soul.

As for your respect, I've never had any for you...so your lack of respect for me amounts to not one iota of interest for me. You knowing I'm gay doesn't mean a damned thing to me either. Your on-going condemnation of them is where you screw up. I don't back up my statements with blind hatred, I back them up with indisputible facts. (you know, facts that weren't dreamed up...but rather based on human reality) The difference is that I'm not relying on a book written by flawed human beings and calling it fact via the interaction of god. I'm more than willing to admit the flaws of evolution and reality as observed by humanity over the centuries, you are not. And that stubborn fact makes you wrong. And at the very least, it makes you hypocritical.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Gaaah! You have heard of the expression - "for every little bit you give, that's exactly what you get back in return" - have you not?

Well, then by your logic, the christian tradition of condemnation and hypocrisy has already doomed them to a life in hell. Sure, there are a lot of good christians in this world. Just as there are a lot of good muslims, buddhists, atheists, etc. Maybe you should consider the thin line between the major world religions....it's isn't condemnation or disgust....it's not moral behavior or hatred of human abuses. It's not believing the exact same thing. Every religion on this planet addresses the right and wrong ways of interacting with each other, but the extremely devout of each want to fight and kill over who said it. Who gives a shit? Live it! We'll all be better off for it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I must know? I must know and accept what you believe? No. That's not how free will works.

You keep accusing me of hatred, but I'm not the one who says "I'm right, and you're wrong, and for it you're going to burn in an eternal pit of fire and suffereing". Wanna know the difference? I'm not going to pretend, for the sake of "gods" favor, that I give two shits about your eternal soul.

The accusation is a just one. Most of your arguments against him(and others as of late) have been rather derogatory, condescending, irrational - and out right rude. I haven't seen Nellinator insult you or use inflammatory comments in a single post.

That's the major reason why your arguments sound so irrational, nothing has been said that's insulting, however, you continue to baselessly insult others(particularly those of the Christian faith) who don't agree with your position. Unfortunately - you've only demonstrated yourself to be the very same *hate filled* dogmatic idealogue - that you profess yourself to be so adament against.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
As for your respect, I've never had any for you...so your lack of respect for me amounts to not one iota of interest for me. You knowing I'm gay doesn't mean a damned thing to me either. Your on-going condemnation of them is where you screw up.

Condemnation(Judgement) - and correction are two different things. Still it doesn't appear as if anyone has attempted to do either to you.(*either* "correct" or "condemn"😉 Expression of ones beliefs in relationship to their religion - is the only thing that has been demonstrated within this thread(and others).

It is your right to choose to either agree or disagree with the positions presented before you, but when you do this - it is advised that you do so in a civil manner.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I don't back up my statements with blind hatred, I back them up with indisputible facts. (you know, facts that weren't dreamed up...but rather based on human reality) The difference is that I'm not relying on a book written by flawed human beings and calling it fact via the interaction of god. I'm more than willing to admit the flaws of evolution and reality as observed by humanity over the centuries, you are not. And that stubborn fact makes you wrong. And at the very least, it makes you hypocritical.

Ahh - but you see - you also are relying on things that were written by *flawed human beings* -- there's nothing definitive, or written in stone regarding the validity of your doctrine. However - you just choose to have more *faith* in those things - that make you feel more comfortable with your current lifestyle choice(s).

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, then by your logic, the christian tradition of condemnation and hypocrisy has already doomed them to a life in hell.

Possibly - but you have heard of the terms *mercy* and *repentance* haven't you? *Mercy* - is something that is demonstrated on those who *repent* of their sins. Quite frankly put - None of us truly deserves to go to heaven, it is by the grace and mercy of our lord and saviour, and his sacrifice(the cross) - that the option is even made available to us.

We are found to be *righteous* by God - not because of our *good works* as Christians - but because we have confessed ourselves to Christ as being a *hypocritical* sinner(as well as attempted to repent of these *hypocritical* sins), and have accepted(and had faith in) the provision he has made for us(the cross) -- to join him in heaven.

Are you willing to acknowledge yourself as a hypocritical sinner? To me this seems like something you are very adament about *not doing* at this time, based on the wanting to fulfill the desires of your flesh. However - if at any point you are willing to repent - then by the grace and mercy of God, you will become a glorified saint, but remember - the first step you must make - is acknowledging that you have sinned.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
I haven't seen Nellinator insult you or use inflammatory comments in a single post.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Homosexuality is a sin meaning that it fits with lying, gossiping, and adultery. Where is the crap. Homosexuals are not a minority group, they are people that share a common behavior, but that does not make them minority, or else everyone is a part of a minority.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't even consider homosexuals a group per se because it is behavior that defines them, not a physical trait. Liars, homosexuals, adulterers, gossipers, etc. are not groups of people, they are sinners.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Condemnation(Judgement) - and correction are two different things. Still it doesn't appear as if anyone has attempted to do either to you.(*either* "correct" or "condemn "😉

con•dem•na•tion noun.
[list=1][*]the act of expressing an unfavorable or adverse judgment on or indicating a strong disapproval of; censuring.

[*]the act of giving grounds or reason for convicting or censuring.[/list]

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Expression of ones beliefs in relationship to their religion - is the only thing that has been demonstrated within this thread(and others).

Likewise, if one was to state, “Christianity is a mythological belief system resulting from thousands of years of cultural syncretism,” he would simply be expressing his belief, not expressing an implied unfavorable or adverse judgment.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Ahh - but you see - you also are relying on things that were written by *flawed human beings* -- there's nothing definitive, or written in stone regarding the validity of your doctrine. However - you just choose to have more *faith* in those things - that make you feel more comfortable with your current lifestyle choice(s).

To the contrary, it is a worldview that is consistent with the growing knowledge of the world through philosophy and science, rather than a static understanding of the world through the collective writings of Bronze Age tribespeople.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Are you willing to acknowledge yourself as a hypocritical sinner? To me this seems like something you are very adament about *not doing* at this time, based on the wanting to fulfill the desires of your flesh. However - if at any point you are willing to repent - then by the grace and mercy of God, you will become a glorified saint, but remember - the first step you must make - is acknowledging that you have sinned.

Are you willing to acknowledge that your belief system is based on a collective work of narrative fiction that elaborates upon the lives of a combination of fictional and historical characters to emphasize, explain, and embody the cosmological and moral beliefs of ancient Mediterranean and Semitic peoples?

It would seem that this is something that you are unwilling to do at this time based on your desire to participate in a mythological delusion. If you are willing to abandon this delusion in the future, you may live a life that is both ethical and fulfilling. However, you must first renounce your Christianity.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ask him this: (he just ignores me) What would you call it, if a Christian gave up their salvation to be with someone in hell for eternity?

USAGI

QUESTION:

What would you call it, if a Christian gave up thier salvation to be with someone in Hell for all eternity ?

Seriously, though that reminds me of a lot of comic book stories...romantic to the EXTREME 🙂

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ask him this: (he just ignores me) What would you call it, if a Christian gave up their salvation to be with someone in hell for eternity?

Originally posted by lord xyz
That's what they all do, they only pay attention to one person and ignore the rest.

Actually, they will only respond to the posts they feel confident answering. When they are stumped, they will not admit it. They will simply ignore.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Actually, they will only respond to the posts they feel confident answering. When they are stumped, they will not admit it. They will simply ignore.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Is that why you get many replies and bardock doesn't?

Most replies to me are just insults though 😆

I tend to piss a lot of people off...and quite frankly it's easier to insult someone than form a reasonable and consice argument against them.

Bardock doesn't get many replies, because he has very little to say.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
con•dem•na•tion noun.
[list=1][*]the act of expressing an unfavorable or adverse judgment on or indicating a strong disapproval of; censuring.

[*]the act of giving grounds or reason for convicting or censuring.[/list]

mis·in·ter·pret verb

[list=1]
[*]To interpret inaccurately.
[*]To explain inaccurately.[/list]

[list=1]
fool noun
[*] a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks sound judgment or common sense, despite their intellectual capacity.
[/list]

Originally posted by Adam Poe
Likewise, if one was to state, “Homosexuality is a sin meaning that it fits with lying, gossiping, and adultery" - he would simply be expressing his belief, not expressing an implied unfavorable or adverse judgment.

Fixed.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Are you willing to acknowledge that your belief system is based on a collective work of narrative fiction that elaborates upon the lives of a combination of fictional and historical characters to emphasize, explain, and embody the cosmological and moral beliefs of ancient Mediterranean and Semitic peoples?

It would seem that this is something that you are unwilling to do at this time based on your desire to participate in a mythological delusion. If you are willing to abandon this delusion in the future, you may live a life that is both ethical and fulfilling. However, you must first renounce your Christianity.

I'm willing to acknowledge that everyone has the right to their opinion, regardless how foolish or incorrect their opinion might be.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Fixed.

I'm willing to acknowledge that everyone has the right to their opinion, regardless how foolish or incorrect their opinion might be.

How childish can you be?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
USAGI

QUESTION:

What would you call it, if a Christian gave up thier salvation to be with someone in Hell for all eternity ?

I would call it *loving* Now a question for you - what has an individual done - when it is finally realized that the pot they thought they were pissing in - was never really there to begin with?

Don't worry I'll anwer for you: they've pissed on themselves.

Good day to you Urizen. God bless.