Atheists and Theists

There are many reasons why I love visiting this forum, but one of the main ones is that I love the phenomenon of interaction between Atheists and Theists, and how exactly the same they are.

Not just people on this forum, but as a general rule.

Here is a simply summary why Atheists and Theists are behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Theists have this view that Atheists are, lacking in morals, and judgment and are so misguided that they cannot possibly make any moral or rational decisions because they do not believe in God.

Atheists have a similar view on Theists. Athiests view Theists sometimes as stupid and misslead, often immoral because they tend to rely on all answers from a simple book which was written by people who thought that earth was flat.

Many theists think that atheists are fools. Which is fair, because many atheists think that theists are fools as well.

Both, Athiests and Theists are convinced of two things -

1) that they are absolutely right and
2) that the other party is wrong, stupid and mislead.

Here is a fundamental point which more than eviently pictures Atheists being like the Theists -

Atheism is not a religion - you will hear a lot of Atheists say.

But the atheist who prosetylizes and denegrates those who hold that there is a god or gods, has put on the mantle of religion.

He/she is behaving in the same manner as fundamentalist preachers who rant against atheism. He/she has made his atheism his/her religion.

This this leads us to a conclusion, that both are, in theory behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Thoughts?

I AGREE.

I think extremism is more dangerous than anything, regardless of what end of the spectrum it comes from.

However, Athiests aren't tying to tell me how to live my life. Thiests are and it's getting really annoying.

You mean atheism and theism are on opposite sides of the same coin? What a thoughtful and original post!

Originally posted by Kinneary
You mean atheism and theism are on opposite sides of the same coin? What a thoughtful and original post!

I meant extremism itself.

Thiesm and Athiesm, atleast in my mind, are two ends of what's essentially the same thing: A belief system. Thiesm beleives there is a God (or gods) while Athiesm beleives there are no gods.

However, extremism is equally dangerous on both ends. Moderation is key for either side to be successful and at peace.

Yes but Atheists have the upper-hand because we're not trying to prove anything. They are, and fail very badly.

Atheism is not a belief system for crying out loud.

Originally posted by Storm
Atheism is not a belief system for crying out loud.

Storm, I have not said that Atheism is a religion. I have said that Atheist has made Atheism his/her religion.

If anything, agnostics are the ones who can be said that truly have no belief system.

Originally posted by Kinneary
You mean atheism and theism are on opposite sides of the same coin? What a thoughtful and original post!

You lack reading comprehension. Badly.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I AGREE.

I think extremism is more dangerous than anything, regardless of what end of the spectrum it comes from.

However, Athiests aren't tying to tell me how to live my life. Thiests are and it's getting really annoying.

Also, jsut for clarification purposes, since I see noone managed to comprehand what I have written (even though I thought I was farely clear)

I am not arguing about who is better or right, since there cannot be a valid conclusion that there is a God or that there isn't one.

I am saying, the a group of Atheists are institutionalising their belief, just like religious people are, through their behaviour in the matter religious people are behaving.
In another words, it is a spread of ''rightcheousness'' of their school of thought through repetitive strikes at Theists.

This is exactly what Theists do, to Atheists and other Theists.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Storm, I have not said that Atheism is a religion. I have said that Atheist has made Atheism his/her religion.

Difference.

Originally posted by Storm
Atheism is not a belief system for crying out loud.

Yes it is. It's just not a religion.

"I don't beleive God exists".....that simple. I think I was using the term "beleif system" out of context. I don't mean it as a literal system of beleifs, with the rituals, practices, etc. I don't mean to even label it a philosophy either.

But beleif or disbeleif in something still qualifies as two ends of the same thing, atleast the way I see it. Thiesm and Athiesm are both related to the possibility of God's existance. They just differ as to thier stances.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Storm, I have not said that Atheism is a religion. I have said that Atheist has made Atheism his/her religion.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If anything, agnostics are the ones who can be said that truly have no belief system.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There are many reasons why I love visiting this forum, but one of the main ones is that I love the phenomenon of interaction between Atheists and Theists, and how exactly the same they are.

Not just people on this forum, but as a general rule.

Here is a simply summary why Atheists and Theists are behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Theists have this view that Atheists are, lacking in morals, and judgment and are so misguided that they cannot possibly make any moral or rational decisions because they do not believe in God.

Atheists have a similar view on Theists. Athiests view Theists sometimes as stupid and misslead, often immoral because they tend to rely on all answers from a simple book which was written by people who thought that earth was flat.

Many theists think that atheists are fools. Which is fair, because many atheists think that theists are fools as well.

Both, Athiests and Theists are convinced of two things -

1) that they are absolutely right and
2) that the other party is wrong, stupid and mislead.

Here is a fundamental point which more than eviently pictures Atheists being like the Theists -

Atheism is not a religion - you will hear a lot of Atheists say.

But the atheist who prosetylizes and denegrates those who hold that there is a god or gods, [b]has put on the mantle of religion.

He/she is behaving in the same manner as fundamentalist preachers who rant against atheism. He/she has made his atheism his/her religion.

This this leads us to a conclusion, that both are, in theory behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Thoughts? [/B]

Originally posted by ThePittman
I agree with some of this to a point but any zealot of any belief system will fall into the same description.

There are people who believe the Earth is round. There are people who believe the Earth is flat. The people who believe that the Earth is round think that the belief that the Earth is flat is stupid--and they're absolutely right. It is stupid. People who believe that the Earth is flat think that the belief that the Earth is round is stupid--and they're absolutely right.

Both atheists and theists believe that they are absolutely right. They're similar in that. But they're also different, because one of the groups is, in fact, absolutely right (I'm not going to take sides in this post by naming the group I think is correct), and one of the groups is absolutely wrong.

If the atheist thinks the theist is being stupid, is he required to respect the theistic view never-the-less? If the theist thinks the atheist is stupid, is he never-the-less required to required to respect the atheistic world view? Why or why not?

If I believe in Santa Clause, should people be required to respect my beliefs? If I don't believe that New York City exists, are people required to respect my disbelief? If people try to point out the errors in my belief or unbelief, and say that I'm an idiot because of course NYC exists and Santa doesn't, have they made these things into their religion? Or are they merely vigerously pointing out something that seems self-evident to them?

Originally posted by Gregory
There are people who believe the Earth is round. There are people who believe the Earth is flat. The people who believe that the Earth is round think that the belief that the Earth is flat is stupid--and they're absolutely right. It is stupid. People who believe that the Earth is flat think that the belief that the Earth is round is stupid--and they're absolutely right.

Both atheists and theists believe that they are absolutely right. They're similar in that. But they're also different, because one of the groups is, in fact, absolutely right (I'm not going to take sides in this post by naming the group I think is correct), and one of the groups is absolutely wrong.

If the atheist thinks the theist is being stupid, is he required to respect the theistic view never-the-less? If the theist thinks the atheist is stupid, is he never-the-less required to required to respect the atheistic world view? Why or why not?

If I believe in Santa Clause, should people be required to respect my beliefs? If I don't believe that New York City exists, are people required to respect my disbelief? If people try to point out the errors in my belief or unbelief, and say that I'm an idiot because of course NYC exists and Santa doesn't, have they made these things into their religion? Or are they merely vigerously pointing out something that seems self-evident to them?

Good Point , but you are forgetting one thing: Belief and knowledge are two different things.

Knowledge is based on facts or in the least valid experience with the object of discussion.

Belief is simply beleif....You can't literally say, "I beleive New York City exists"....because you KNOW New York City exists. There is nothing to beleive. It's proven, it is undeniable, it's fact.

When you beleive in something you do not know it to be true. You may claim you do, but unless you have factual reason to make that claim, it is only beleif and not yet fact.

Athiests beleive that God does not exist. There beleif is CONCRETE. Agnostics are the only people who are realistic in the sense that they admit they DO NOT KNOW....

Athiests and Thiests have the same issue....they claim they know the TRUTH....most of them do not even claim it is thier beleif, but try to pass off thier beleif as FACT.

There are ZEALOUS Athiests the same way there are Zealous Thiests. OMG...google it...there's an Athiest camp dedicated to children whose parents do NOT beleive in God, and do not want to be bothered with the beleif in God.

LIL B is right in the sense that many Athiests have turned standard Athiesm into thier own little religion.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There are many reasons why I love visiting this forum, but one of the main ones is that I love the phenomenon of interaction between Atheists and Theists, and how exactly the same they are.

Not just people on this forum, but as a general rule.

Here is a simply summary why Atheists and Theists are behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Theists have this view that Atheists are, lacking in morals, and judgment and are so misguided that they cannot possibly make any moral or rational decisions because they do not believe in God.

Atheists have a similar view on Theists. Athiests view Theists sometimes as stupid and misslead, often immoral because they tend to rely on all answers from a simple book which was written by people who thought that earth was flat.

Many theists think that atheists are fools. Which is fair, because many atheists think that theists are fools as well.

Both, Athiests and Theists are convinced of two things -

1) that they are absolutely right and
2) that the other party is wrong, stupid and mislead.

Here is a fundamental point which more than eviently pictures Atheists being like the Theists -

Atheism is not a religion - you will hear a lot of Atheists say.

But the atheist who prosetylizes and denegrates those who hold that there is a god or gods, [b]has put on the mantle of religion.

He/she is behaving in the same manner as fundamentalist preachers who rant against atheism. He/she has made his atheism his/her religion.

This this leads us to a conclusion, that both are, in theory behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Thoughts? [/B]

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Theists have this view that Atheists are, lacking in morals, and judgment and are so misguided that they cannot possibly make any moral or rational decisions because they do not believe in God.

Atheists have a similar view on Theists. Athiests view Theists sometimes as stupid and misslead, often immoral because they tend to rely on all answers from a simple book which was written by people who thought that earth was flat.

Hmmm. Well, I don't view Theists in such a way. My argument usually goes - Atheists, and people in general don't need a God to do good. An Atheists is just as capable of living a happy, fulfilling and good life as a Theist.

Because that tack has always annoyed me - "Teach evolution and you are on your way to a state of anarchy where life is without value or meaning." And I don't think Theists are immoral - since the average Theist is usually very moral, in fact morality is one of the main strays of religion - though this can lead to questions of hypocrasy, since there are tremendous theists who say one thing and do another. Of course the argument that morals are set in stone and without change, or only possible in a holy text is problamatic - man is moral, not religion.

Many theists think that atheists are fools. Which is fair, because many atheists think that theists are fools as well.

Well, according to the writings of at least one member on the board he is justified in calling anyone who disagrees a fool because Biblically "fool" apparently means one who is morally wayward and without Jesus in their lives (since the two go hand in hand.) Admittedly when a foolish argument is used I will comment as such - and unfortunately my education up to this point tends to dislike circular arguments (we all know the kind.)

Both, Athiests and Theists are convinced of two things -

1) that they are absolutely right and
2) that the other party is wrong, stupid and mislead.

Not true on the stupid or misled part (well, not for me) though I admit some of the Theists arguments I have seen are questionable, especially those in areas such as creationism where debunked pseudosciences are paraded as the executioners of evolution, or the unquestionable truth in their claims.

Of course I have conviction that I am on the right path, and I like to think it is rational, scientific and logical. I have no problem with religion, and I am happy for others to worship as they see fit (and I am a fan of Buddhism and Hinduism.) But when someone says "this is the truth and you are foolish to ignore it" then I will debate such a claim, while being open minded to the possibility I am wrong. Of course I ask for a level of evidence, if my arguments have to be judged by the amount of evidence I have to support them I see no reason I theist (or atheist) should get a "win an argument free card" by saying things like "evidence can't prove faith" or "it would only make sense if you saw with the eyes of the holy spirit."

But the atheist who prosetylizes and denegrates those who hold that there is a god or gods, [b]has put on the mantle of religion. [/b]

Or politics or education or philosophy.

This this leads us to a conclusion, that both are, in theory behaving in the exactly the same manner.

Thoughts?

Some, at any rate. It is correct for some - their are Atheists who are just as guilty of irrational and terribly biased dislike of religion who attack it the way some theists attack other faiths. However there are also Atheists who operate from a sociological view, a philosophical one, and educational one who believe their is sufficient logical reason to attempt to convert theists to Atheism or Agnosticism (think The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins) whose approach to the debate is about as far from Theological evangelism as it can get. To be honest most Atheists I know don't have any great aspirations or even desire to attack religion, and will only express their views on it when faced with a Theist who claims "this is the truth, repent or face hell."

The ironic part about Lil's argument is that the many Ancient Greeks actually thought the earth was round and proved it using obersvable stellar evidence.

The Christian empires ignored this school of thought. They wanted to stick to their "four corners" as stated in the bible.

Originally posted by Alliance
The ironic part about Lil's argument is that the many Ancient Greeks actually thought the earth was round and proved it using obersvable stellar evidence.

The Christian empires ignored this school of thought. They wanted to stick to their "four corners" as stated in the bible.

That comment makes no sense at all to me.