Originally posted by Juntai
Better, I'll analyze them more carefully when I have time.
Thanks though, for the thuroughness you bring, I'd expect nothing less.
Kool.
Originally posted by Juntai
Desperate just because I brought a similar instance of when I had to bring more proof... just the same, I wanted more proof here... where you originally brought scans that didn't prove anything other than editorial errors in other storyarcs.It seems to be the way our relationship goes, I show you something, you show me something.
My apologies,
I misuderstood the point of what you where saying.
I respect you and I believe your a true debater, I would have never said those things had I not thought you were being condescending.
My bad.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's been a while since I read The End, but I told my friend at work [who's a Marvel collector himself] to bring it in for me again, but that'll have to wait I return his first 20 issues of the Surfer volume 3.
Nice,
I'll be diving into Spectre V4 now, just issue #01 had me excited.
Originally posted by Juntai
I mentioned the handbook offhandedly, it wasn't the base of what I was trying to accomplish. And I didn't blatantly lie, the handbooks are collected of what marvel accepts as their current canon, I just mentioned that what I remembered the story as merely coincides with that view. Nothing wrong with that.
I understand,
but even in the horrible job done by Marvel's "official site" concerning the Cosmics that's not mentioned.
That info you posted is from Wiki.
And suggesting based on pure speculation that the Thanos of the END (supposing it wasn't 616 Thanos) somehow got his hands on the same Cosmic Containment Unit and the same IG as Thanos 616 is outlandish and a reach that you must acknowledge.
Especially when Thanos described the EXACT SAME events that took place in 616, in Marvel, Alternate Realities are ALWAYS different from 616 in one way or another.
That's why they are labeled "Alternate"...
Originally posted by Juntai
Don't mount your high horse.
It's funny though.
Everyone has a horse around here, even when you shoot them off of it, they're dead souls continue to ride into the sunset. 😎
Originally posted by Juntai
Admist all of that, you did agree with me on one thing.
HOTU does not = TOAA.
Only a portion of it's power.
Which is what I said when I came into the debate.Thanks for that.
In conclusion, this seems to be a supreme being, vs a being with only a portion of such.
I completely agree with this.
But I must add, whatever that portion is, makes him the most powerful being in the Marvel Omni-verse below TOAA.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
A portion of infinity = infinity
Not exactly, or atleast not according to Marvel:
This is how Marvel, the company that creates these characters measures INFINITY
"Thus are demonstrated TWO LEVELS of Infinity, there are of course, an INFINITE number MORE"
Please read the scans, so we can avoid circles.
Do Image deities even have feats, or is it all just hyperbole? You rarely see actual feats for MoM, besides a few claims made by the characters - which prove nothing as far as power level. In addition, there are few cosmics besides the aforementioned demons & angels, disciples etc.... all a bunch of vague beings with feats that wouldn't be out of the grasp of a skyfather.
Have they ever been proven to even be above heralds, you know with their razzle-dazzle "hellfire" & "vengeance" and pseudo- biblical nonsense. The few scans I've seen don't prove anything - they certainly don't equate Spawn or anyone to characters like Lucifer or Michael. I just get the sense that everything we hear about them comes from the overactive imaginations of the fanboys.
Well, it seem THOTU trully destroyed Multiverse, which is also logicall, since there was nothing to absorb anymore.
Nothing suggest that MOM is more powerful than THOTU.
THOTU wouldl have no problem to destroy omniverse or all existence, if he would reach it (but TOAA limited him in range to not touch other Multiverses as Mr. Master said).
There is no way to know who is more powerful, MOM or THOTU.
Originally posted by boriquaking55
Do Image deities even have feats, or is it all just hyperbole? You rarely see actual feats for MoM, besides a few claims made by the characters - which prove nothing as far as power level. In addition, there are few cosmics besides the aforementioned demons & angels, disciples etc.... all a bunch of vague beings with feats that wouldn't be out of the grasp of a skyfather.
Image Dieties ? You mean God and Satan? Mom ?
I'll enlighten you a bit....
Here's the Image HIERARCHY:
I. So far, the most powerful character in Spawn's reality is [b]MOM- Mother- Man of Miracles
Facts that have already been stated about her:
1) There is no greater power than her (In Image)
2) She/He created the Universe
3) She/He created God and Satan (and Urizen, and every other dietie)
4) She has INFINITE children, all equal of God and Satan, each with thier own worlds
5) She destroys planets
6) She implanted 6000 souls from Earth into Spawn's heart
7) She made God and Satan reborn as two children: Jake and Katie
8) She resurrected Spawn from total Oblivion (after Judas the Disciple killed him, Spawn did not end up in Heaven OR Hell, he was GONE for good)
9) She froze God, Satan, Spawn, and Zera in Time
10) She slowed down time so that Spawn could stop the bullet from killing Wanda, when she tried to shoot herself
11) She created the Disciples
12) She created the Garden of Eden and Earth
13) She gave Spawn the power to open up Earth to devour Urizen and keep him trapped (Greenworld gave Spawn that power over Earth, but MOM is actually the keeper of Greenworld)
14) Had appeared to mankind and Spawn as : Kali the Goddess of Death and Destruction, Keeper of Greenworld, Man of Miracles, Mother Nature, and Jesus Christ.
15) She remade Spawn into a God, to be on rival par with God and Satan
II. God / Satan
God-
1) Created Heaven
2) Created the Forgotten, including Mammon
3) Created the Seraphim, including Zera and the 3 sisters
4) Created mankind out of earth
5) Created other creatures as well
6) Created Abdiel (Curse of Spawn)
7) Gave Granny Blake her sight back
8) Took away the FREE WILL of the "faithful" from Earth
9) Remade mere human beings as angelic warriors
10) Created the Great Flood, Plagues, Four Horseman
11) As Jake, created zombies and other creatures to provoke armaggedon
12) * May have possibly helped locked up Urizen in the void the first time Urizen was let loose-
Satan-
1) Created Hell
2) Gave mankind Free Will
3) Destroyed some of God's creations
4) Created a massive Earthquake by destroying the San Andrea's fault
5) Created native demons of Hell
6) Almost executed Mammon, until Mammon begged his way out of it
7) Created the demons that eventually created Leviathon, who eventually created Malebolgia, who eventually turned Al Simmons to Spawn
8) Resurrected Thamuz from Mammon's damnation
9) * May have possibly helped lock up Urizen the first time he was loose
III. Urizen
1) Has the power to destroy the Imagination and Free Will
2) Represents the Void, can eat/nullify souls and spiritual energy in general
3) Heaven and Hell had to combine forces the FIRST TIME to defeat Urizen by imprisoning him within the Void. It is uncertain whether God and Satan had any involvement in his initial defeat
4) CANNOT DIE TO BE DESTROYED, ONLY CONTAINED
5) Emphasis on being a TRUE immortal
6) Negates souls, destroys dreams, and compassion
7) During his second coming, his presense caused everybody within 3 miles of him to go insane and kill themselves/eachother
8) Can destroy Heaven and Hell, that is why they both feared him greatly
9) Would have destroyed the rest of Earth if Spawn/Angela/ Greenworld had not stopped him
10) Destoyed hundreds of innocent people during his walk on Earth
11) Destoyed hundreds of angels and demons before his imprisonment
12) Impaled Spawn, during thier first encounter on a restaurant sign
13) Survived being attacked with Angelic lance and necroplasm
14) After his imprisonment, a shard of his being possessed a young boy, turning him into a monster before Spawn removed that shard
IV. Zera
1) God's most powerful warrior
2) Killed ALL of the Forgotten except for Mammon (because she couldn't find him)
3) Located God when he was in the incarnation of Wanda's son, Jake
4) Killed giant demons in New York City
5) Her avatar is an unstoppable beast, a manifestation of her madness and rage
6) Travels through space with ease
7) Was locked up because God deemed her too insane and powerful to roam free
8) Is leading Heaven's army against Hell on Earth
9) MOM declared Zera too powerful for Spawn to battle before she remade him into a God
10) *May have been involved in Urizen's imprisonment after his first rampage
V. Abdiel
1) Has the power to make stars go supernova
2) Possessed a sword that was capable of slaying even immortals
3) Flew through space with ease
4) Most demons feared him
5) Nearly killed Malebolgia before the mission was aborted
6) Killed Lilith, a high level demon
7) Witnessed Al Simmon's transformation into Spawn
VI. Mammon
1) Is ONE of the Forgotten - a race of angels who decided to remain neutral during Heaven and Hell's first war
2) Took over Hell during Satan's absense
3) Is 1000 times more powerful than Malebolgia
4) Erased all of Spawn's memories, including his love for Wanda
5) Predicted a young waitress' morbid future
6) Sentenced Thamuz to torture
7) Learned to utilize Hell to increase his power
8) Tricked Thea into giving him her soul
9) Tricked Nyx into giving him her power over Spawn
10) *May have been involved in Urizen's first imprisonment, but it is not certain
VII. The Forgotten
A race of angels who decided not to betray God, but not fight against the unfaithful angels either.
1) Destroyed an entire town after Spawn passed the "Tiend"
2) Are generally more powerful than Angels like Tiffany, Angela, Redeemers, any of Heaven's "processed" warriors
3) Transformed a little girl into a bull, then a snake, then a lion, then a fish, then into other objects, etc. without killing her.
4) Almost took over Heaven by killing other angels, before Zera came and slaughtered all of them quickly
VIII. Malebolgia
1) Created Necroplasm, the source of Hellspawn's powers
2) Created all Hellspawns
3) Ruler of the 8th plane of Hell
4) Slew his creator Leviathon
5) Released Urizen onto Earth by sending two demons to do the ritual which sets him free
6) Caused misery to over thousands of worlds (Curse of Spawn)
7) Turned Billy Kincaid into a hellspawn
8) Killed Angela
IX. Angela
1) nearly slaughted Malebolgia
2) hunted down the universal threat- Argus- in Curse of Spawn
3) Sent Lilith to Hell
4) Can travel at speeds faster than light
5) Has travelled throughout galaxies and dimensions at amazing speeds
6) Her lance could have erased Mammon from existance
That's great man - you didn't have to spend that much time on it 😱
but, I must ask - what out of that whole list, is out of the reach of the HOTU?
the majority of them aren't even cosmic feats - example
5) She destroys planets
why bother listing feats like this when regular Thanos can do such things. In fact, a good half of the list is within the grasp of a skyfather. None of it is mindblowing
edit: one more thing regarding spawn, the religious undertones of Spawn comics is not proof of any power - Gods, angels, Hell - those are just buzz words. What bearing do they really have?
Im not a religious person, so pardon me if I hold that view.
Ok, regarding these thread, I think we struck a point where theology may be a little needed. Sadly, THOTU can very well be all the power of TOAA in a practical sense, thinking that its not and that its somewhat limited regarding the "full power" of TOAA falls under the same assumtion that "Can God make a rock that he himself cannot lift?". Its just a plain void missinterpretation of omnipotence, I dont think we should dig much into those arguments as we stand now, as we dont have proves to suppose the true nature of Thanos's powers at that given time.
Fallacious assumptions I'm afraid.
IF the MoM is in fact the creator of Image universe, its very own omnipotent presence, then by the information we are given we must assume that its power equals that of THOTU, and then we cannot predict the result of the battle.
Thanos has been played by omnipotents before, but right now, we being beyong the omnipotence of said omnipotence can put him in a position where he is not being played. I think we hit stale mate in this thread.
