Civil War Speedball vs. Kingdom Come Magog

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
and how the hell were they supposed to know how powerful Nitro was? There aren't any psychics on the New Warriors!

He could easily have exploded next to the gas tank and set it off, killing dozens of kids instead of hundreds.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Not in a positive manner. Wanda destroyed the lives of about everyone she touched. Sentry took the memories of many people without permission or need to do so.

Well that's the point isn't it. You argued that "heroes" don't have the power to change the world, and I gave you examples that they do.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Also, this isn't DC. This is Marvel. That type of crap doesn't go down. Hereos aren't uber-powered tyrants. They're real people that try to make the world better, but not control it.

The public has stated that they no longer want the help of unregistered heroes. For unregistered heroes to continue to force their help on a population that does want their help makes them no better than when Thor tried to rule the planet. Life is free will. Freedom to even refuse help from a stranger if you choose. Now stop changing the subject and get back on the topic of Speedball and Magog.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Well that's the point isn't it. You argued that "heroes" don't have the power to change the world, and I gave you examples that they do.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Yes, because Superman, Wonderwoman, and the rest of the JLA have proved time and again that they [b]are "uber-powered tyrants" and not "people that try to make the world better". They're always fighting to assert their dominance over the planet.[/B]

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
The public has stated that they no longer want the help of unregistered heroes. For unregistered heroes to continue to force their help on a population that does want their help makes them no better than when Thor tried to rule the planet. Life is free will. Freedom to even refuse help from a stranger if you choose. Now stop changing the subject and get back on the topic of Speedball and Magog.

This is part of the topic, whether you realize it or not. You said they can control the world. I'm saying they can't and won't. Read the observations of the DCU by Marvel characters, and tell me that they don't see it as surreal and unrealistic. They controlled that planet until the people told them they didn't want their help anymore. Also, look at the references to DC heroes in Kingdom Come, calling them gods. You can't deny that they are seen as such.

In the Marvel Universe, it's different. Heroes know it's morally wrong to have that much pull. Also, if you read Civil War, you'll see that the people are divided over the issue. 😉

Yes Speedball and Magog are just as responsable, though clearly under differant circumstances and contexts.

However. They are only as responsable for the outcomes of their conflicts as EVERY other hero is for the potential negative concequences of any fight they got in.

You need to stop looking at the comic world and its legal/moral issues from the light of a person who lives in the real world.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Life is free will. Freedom to even refuse help from a stranger if you choose.

this isnt really on the same topic, but i figured I'd sort of answer this.

This is false. I have no capability to refuse the outside "help" of the government or police in many circumstances. True, if i loose my dog I can refuse their help, but trust me, there are a HUGE variety of instances where the "help" directive overrides the "freedom" directive.

oh, i can also scientifically proove that "free will" doesn't exist, but thats another topic altogeather 😛

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
2) Oh, so since he normally explodes only a "little bit" it's okay to engage him next to a crowded schoolyard, and slam him into a school bus?

Speedball had nothing to do with fighting Nitro near the school ... that was Namorita's fault for letting him get that far ahead (which he shouldn't have been able to do given her speed)

The fact that he explodes at all means that conventional law enforcement is unneffective against him.... as SHIELD found out later.

Originally posted by inamilist

This is false. I have no capability to refuse the outside "help" of the government or police in many circumstances. True, if i loose my dog I can refuse their help, but trust me, there are a HUGE variety of instances where the "help" directive overrides the "freedom" directive.

oh, i can also scientifically proove that "free will" doesn't exist, but thats another topic altogeather 😛 [/B]

Yes thank you!!!!!!!!! 😮‍💨 thank you!!!

Originally posted by inamilist
oh, i can also scientifically proove that "free will" doesn't exist, but thats another topic altogeather 😛

Originally posted by Scoobless
Speedball had nothing to do with fighting Nitro near the school ... that was Namorita's fault for letting him get that far ahead (which he shouldn't have been able to do given her speed)

The fact that he explodes at all means that conventional law enforcement is unneffective against him.... as SHIELD found out later.

Namorita's fault?!?

What, she was supposed to let the murderous villain continue running towards the school ground full of children where he most likely would've taken a hostage?

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Namorita's fault?!?

What, she was supposed to let the murderous villain continue running towards the school ground full of children where he most likely would've taken a hostage?

Originally posted by inamilist
oh, i can also scientifically proove that "free will" doesn't exist, but thats another topic altogeather 😛

So you can choose to tell us this proof? 🙄

'Speedball isn't paying for it'

My ass , have you SEEN his new costume. The mans torturing himself !

Originally posted by grey fox
'Speedball isn't paying for it'

My ass , have you SEEN his new costume. The mans torturing himself !

He looks like a crappy silent hill monster that didn't make the cut.

Yeah, Speedball is finally admitting his mistakes

Where all Magog did was blame Superman