Who Is a Christian?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Some Christians don't even know what they beleive.....i know some Christians who have said, "Oh, isn't Jesus our father ?"

Then I say, "He's God's son. He suposedly died on the cross for your sins"

Then they go, "He did ? But God can't die"

Yet they are Christian.....what makes a Christian who doesn't accept Jesus as God, any less Christian than these dimwits ?

Well technically it sounds like they still believe in Jesus, just in a doctrinally questionable fashion.

After all, when one compares the awesome variety of Christian sect/denominations and the factions that exist in each of them it is possible to say that none of them know what to really believe, since the important claim of "we are the right ones" means that everyone who isn't them is at least a little wrong.

And as the Jesus thread here shows - reasonably well educated sounding Christians can't decide if Jesus is or isn't God.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well technically it sounds like they still believe in Jesus, just in a doctrinally questionable fashion.

After all, when one compares the awesome variety of Christian sect/denominations and the factions that exist in each of them it is possible to say that none of them know what to really believe, since the important claim of "we are the right ones" means that everyone who isn't them is at least a little wrong.

And as the Jesus thread here shows - reasonably well educated sounding Christians can't decide if Jesus is or isn't God.

But why do they NEED to be right ? What are they afraid of ?

Buddhists are generally content not knowing about the nature of the world, and not knowing the origins of creation....

Why do so many Christians have such a fear of the afterlife, and such a disregard for the diversity of this current life ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But why do they [b]NEED to be right ? What are they afraid of ?[/b]

They probably don't need to be right, it is a product of modern times, the urge to be right up to the hilt, no room for doubt (which was once considered a part of conviction.)

But then again people like to think they are right. And when you have a multitude of competing claims", marketing ideas behind one of them is hardly ever going to be "lets admit their is a chance we are wrong and hope the masses still follow us despite being faced by others who claim to be 100% right and true and beyond doubt."

Because "we might be wrong" doesn't have the same ring to it as "we are privy to a God given truth."

Why do so many Christians have such a fear of the afterlife, and such a disregard for the diversity of this current life ?

Not just Christians of course.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why do so many Christians have such a fear of the afterlife, and such a disregard for the diversity of this current life ?

This life is nothing, a short-lived mist that is dispelled by the slightest breeze.

How do you know for sure? Couldn't it be that we are already IN eternity and these physical lives are just short stop offs.

Originally posted by debbiejo
How do you know for sure? Couldn't it be that we are already IN eternity and these physical lives are just short stop offs.

Originally posted by FeceMan
That...doesn't make much sense.

To one who has no imagination....Reincarnation, hello....

Originally posted by FeceMan
Because the afterlife is for eternity.

This life is nothing, a short-lived mist that is dispelled by the slightest breeze.

IF this life is nothing, then why should the consequences of it be eternal ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
To one who has no imagination....Reincarnation, hello....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
IF this life is nothing, then why should the consequences of it be eternal ?

Originally posted by FeceMan
Contrary to popular belief, what we do in this life matters.

Oh, I totally agree...

But You didn't answer my question...if this Life is nothing, as you so strategically put it, then why should the consequences of nothing be eternal ?

Originally posted by FeceMan
Contrary to popular belief, what we do in this life matters.

Maybe you can take a second to explain why it matters? Because I don't get it. It's one of those things that has never made any sense to me. (And don't take that as an insult towards christianity, it's one of the few themes that are constant in all religions for the last 6 thousand years.)

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh, I totally agree...

But You didn't answer my question...if this Life is nothing, as you so strategically put it, then why should the consequences of nothing be eternal ?

The reason that our actions in such a short period of time affect us for eternity is because God is just. Sin--any sin, no matter how small--makes us unworthy of the glory of God, and we cannot "earn" our way back into being worthy. So, because God is just and we are unworthy, we are not allowed to be in his presence, ever--unless, of course, one asks for forgiveness from His sacrifice.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Maybe you can take a second to explain why it matters? Because I don't get it. It's one of those things that has never made any sense to me. (And don't take that as an insult towards christianity, it's one of the few themes that are constant in all religions for the last 6 thousand years.)

Originally posted by FeceMan
Life matters because, although it's nothing in the universal time frame, it is a long time to us. In this short frame of time that seems so long, we have the opportunity to do great evil and great good, and, because there are other humans who live in this frame of time that are affected by any evil or good we do, it matters--especially when each person has been planned by God.

Okay, I understand what you're saying, but I don't understand why it makes a difference in the next "frame", as you put it. I think the same thing happened to Hitlwer when he died as happened to Mother Teresa.

But, on another note, if god has everything planned out, how are we not going to do and say exactly as he would have planned? I get the whole free will catch, but let's say an aborted fetus was meant to be aborted because it was all planned.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Okay, I understand what you're saying, but I don't understand why it makes a difference in the next "frame", as you put it. I think the same thing happened to Hitlwer when he died as happened to Mother Teresa.

But, on another note, if god has everything planned out, how are we not going to do and say exactly as he would have planned? I get the whole free will catch, but let's say an aborted fetus was meant to be aborted because it was all planned.

The fetus may have been meant to be aborted, much in the same way that the Israelites were meant to be enslaved and Hitler was meant to rise to power. Let's take Hitler, since he's a fun person.

Hitler's rise to power (and subsequent acts) was a Very Bad Thing. God foreknew of this rise to power and the destruction that Hitler would wreak; God saw this Very Bad Thing before it was even in the works. However, God allowed it to happen--so we could say that it was meant to happen. That does not mean that Hitler's acts were a) not Very Bad Things, and b) God condoned Hitler's actions. It does, however, mean that God had a purpose in it.

(Don't ask me what the purpose was, as I don't know.)

"In this way they will store up for themselves a treasure which will be a solid foundation for the future. And then they will be able to win the life which is true life."
I Timothy 6:19

* in the Bible, there is "TRUE LIFE" and that life is eternal... that is the life in heaven that Jesus and the apostles were preaching... 😉

"And behold, one came up to him, saying, Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?
And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.
He said to him, Which? And Jesus said, You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
The young man said to him, All these I have observed; what do I still lack?
Jesus said to him, If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
Matthew 19:16-21

Originally posted by FeceMan
It's an interesting thing, trying to wrap one's mind around this whole...thing.

The fetus may have been meant to be aborted, much in the same way that the Israelites were meant to be enslaved and Hitler was meant to rise to power. Let's take Hitler, since he's a fun person.

Hitler's rise to power (and subsequent acts) was a Very Bad Thing. God foreknew of this rise to power and the destruction that Hitler would wreak; God saw this Very Bad Thing before it was even in the works. However, God allowed it to happen--so we could say that it was meant to happen. That does not mean that Hitler's acts were a) not Very Bad Things, and b) God condoned Hitler's actions. It does, however, mean that God had a purpose in it.

(Don't ask me what the purpose was, as I don't know.)

In other words, God allows bad things to happen in order to maintain His sovereignty as omniscient?

Originally posted by FeceMan
I thought of that. Then I decided that it still didn't make much sense.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In other words, God allows bad things to happen in order to maintain His sovereignty as omniscient?

Assuming it is a question: no.

Originally posted by FeceMan
It is not that life is nothing, it is that it is so short.

The reason that our actions in such a short period of time affect us for eternity is because God is just.

God is just ?

So would you throw someone in prison for life because they lied in court ? Would you chop off someone's hand because they stole ?

A permanent solution to a temporary problem....

Eternal Consequences cannot be just for a temporary action that only has temporary effects. It is unbalanced.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Sin--any sin, no matter how small--makes us unworthy of the glory of God, and we cannot "earn" our way back into being worthy.

Why should we "earn" being worthy at all ? I beleive that we are all of intrisic value, not instrumental value.

Originally posted by FeceMan
So, because God is just and we are unworthy, we are not allowed to be in his presence, ever--unless, of course, one asks for forgiveness from His sacrifice.

Why did God have to sacrafice himself ? Why does thier have to be any blood ? Why does God allow Satan to influence us ? Why didn't God lock Satan away long ago ? Why is he waiting for the Rapture to do it ?

Why do you beleive a bunch of fairy tales ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
God is just ?

So would you throw someone in prison for life because they lied in court ? Would you chop off someone's hand because they stole ?

A permanent solution to a temporary problem....

Eternal Consequences cannot be just for a temporary action that only has temporary effects. It is unbalanced.

Why should we "earn" being worthy at all ? I beleive that we are all of intrisic value, not instrumental value.

Why did God have to sacrafice himself ?

Why does thier have to be any blood ?

Why does God allow Satan to influence us ?

Why didn't God lock Satan away long ago ?

Why is he waiting for the Rapture to do it ?

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time."

Why do you beleive a bunch of fairy tales ?