Parallax vs. Abraxas

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually you don't have any proof that the Multi-verse was collapsing because 616 G died, 616 G wasn't even dead, he returned to his Natural State, which still upheld the Universal Balance.

But by returning to his Natural State, Abraxas was freed, he who's very Concept is to Destroy.

In the Roma scan,

Again:

Multi-Eternity had to install a Galactus in EVERY single Universe in the Multi-verse just to keep the ONE and ONLY Abraxas at bay.

"INTO EACH REALITY Eternity made certain there was a Galactus to keep Abraxas in check, UNTIL this REALITY'S Galactus DIED, and the DOORS of the Multi-verse became UNHINGED"

This entire explanation by Roma is focusing on what happened when Galactus 616 died, she doesn't say the Multi-verse began to collapse or anything about the Multi-verse,

only how it allowed Abraxas to ESCAPE who would have been kept "IN CHECK" otherwise.

Roma is clearly saying Abraxas was kept in check, UNTIL 616 Galactus died and the Doors of the Multi-verse became unhinged"

What happened when the Doors of the Multi-verse became unhinged, due to Galactus's "death" (return to Natural State)?

Abraxas was FREED.

Roma is not saying the Multi-verse began to collapse, or fold or anything, am I ("inserting that level of speculation in the scene?"😉
Or is that what the scan says?

If you have a scan or a part of the issue where 616 G, is stated to be responsible for the collapse of the Multi-verse, by all means let me know.

These may be the "same old Scans" but it answers the same old question.

You don't care or agree, cool.

this is where it derails for you, imo. you are defining what unhinged means. to me it means broken. plain and simple. it was g's death that led to the inevitable collapse. and yes, abraxas was released. he was a symptom, imo, as i said before, not the catalyst. g's death was the catalyst that sent everything out of whack. you say i have no proof that g's death caused the collapse, but i have at least roma's words. you have no proof whatsoever that abraxas's appearance even sped things along, let alone caused the collapse. he never destroyed universes -- even the ones he was in. he seemed more intent on destroying individual beings and allowing the multiverse to collapse (btw was COLLAPSE ever even used in the arc . . .?) or merge. 616 was merging well before abraxas made his appearance. you'll argue his very presence in the multiverse caused the merging. i'll say the merging began with g's 'death'. (and we've discussed -- and AGREED upon -- the fact that his 'death' was pretty ridiculous . . .)

Originally posted by King Kandy
Sure.

But this better not be that scan of him "Crushing" his little image of Eternity...

Because even a moron can realize that was symbolic.

That's all your gonna get, cause that's all they show, so if I posted them somewhere and you saw them, that's what they are.

I only know that it was Genis doing the killing, because he says, "I crushed him like this" not including Entropy. (Entropy helped bound him)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Enough with this, I fell into it again.

Your not worth my time, post what you wish, be as dellusional as you wish.

Everyone knows who you are and the joke you are around here.

You've gotten bottom on every turn,

and now you have a grudge, too bad my child.

And yet you can't rebuff my statement. You like to use the IG beating the Un as some proof that the IG is multiversal, when it was an Older version of the UN. And since the UN is part of Galactus, and Galacuts has steadily grown in power and multiversal importance,then so would the Un right? You can't use an old scan of a false hood as proof. We dont' even know what was real and what wasn't in the Magus IG saga since he was fooled and really didn't have all power. Your Theorizing on your own assumptions that an incomplete IG beat the Un, So a complete IG must be waaaaaaay more powerful. when in fact, he was only missing one gem. For all we know, the magus only need the mind gem and power gem to make every one THINK he was merging and changing the universe. I am not convinced that The IG was above the CURRENT version of the UN. You are back tracking and you can't do that in comics. That's like saying the Runner beats the surfer. Hell yeah in the OLD days before his current upgrade. Same thing. The UN has had an upgrade and thus your total summation of the IG being more powerufl than the UN is null and void!!!

Okay.

But that doesn't put Genis above Etropy/Eternity.

Taking down Eternity was definatly a collaberative effort, and Eternity wanted to die anyway.

Originally posted by leonidas
this is where it derails for you, imo. you are defining what unhinged means. to me it means broken. plain and simple. it was g's death that led to the inevitable collapse. and yes, abraxas was released. he was a symptom, imo, as i said before, not the catalyst. g's death was the catalyst that sent everything out of whack. you say i have no proof that g's death caused the collapse, but i have at least roma's words. you have no proof whatsoever that abraxas's appearance even sped things along, let alone caused the collapse. he never destroyed universes -- even the ones he was in. he seemed more intent on destroying individual beings and allowing the multiverse to collapse (btw was COLLAPSE ever even used in the arc . . .?) or merge. 616 was merging well before abraxas made his appearance. you'll argue his very presence in the multiverse caused the merging. i'll say the merging began with g's 'death'. (and we've discussed -- and AGREED upon -- the fact that his 'death' was pretty ridiculous . . .)

Let just look at that one scan that defines it all:

"INTO EACH REALITY Eternity made certain there was a Galactus to keep Abraxas in check, UNTIL this REALITY'S Galactus DIED, and the DOORS of the Multi-verse became UNHINGED"

I'm not posting my opinion on the scan, just what it says, let's review it together:

I have two question, and it might settle everything.

When Roma said,

"UNTIL this REALITY'S Galactus DIED, and the DOORS of the Multi-verse became UNHINGED"

Something was taking place "UNTIL" ...

Did Roma say, the Multi-verse was Balanced, not collapsing, "UNTIL" ...?

Did Roma say, Abraxas was kept in check, "UNTIL" ...?

Originally posted by Mr Master
"and where ONE ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS Universe, a MULTI-ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS MULTI-VERSE"

"What was revealed to me through the Cosmic Entity known as ETERNITY"

"Was a Being like NO OTHER I have EVER encountered, his name is ABRAXAS, and to say HE (MULTI-ETERNITY) had nothing to FEAR in our discovery is an UNDERSTATEMENT"

It's an Understatement to say Multi-Eternity "had nothing to fear"

Why did Multi-Eternity seek help if he wasn't afraid?

Why didn't Multi-Eternity or any Eternity do anything or atleast TRIED to do something about Abraxas?

Abaxas is collapsing the Multi-verse, Abraxas is in search of the UN which would make him unstoppable and yet the Cosmics do nothing?

Particularly Eternity or Multi-Eternity do nothing?

"deriding people"

You really were angry, blindingly angry, cause the ONLY person I got tough with was nvrhadaclue, which began to insult me from the get.

Review page one and be thorough.

Your opinion, and I disagree with it.

In my first post today, it's clear Abraxas was the culprit of the Multiversal collapse.

Your obviously not buying that, cool.

you recanted part of this post. cool. and i was angry. i hate seeing anyone belittled for having a difference of opinion in the forum. it was the main reason i got in on it in the first place.

anyway, i feel much better today. 😉

you can call me nvr had a clue all you want mr master, you know i'm right. You can't use the an incomplete IG beating an OLD version of the UN as proof that the IG is multiversal like you have been doing all these months. I have been callign you on that and I will continue to. no matter what people say about me or callign me names. Im right and you know it. many of the things you say are out of your own opinion and twisting of what you feel as tho the panel is saying.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting...

When Galactus was killed, (returned to his Natural State) the salvation of Worlds is what's mentioned not Multi or Universal damage of any kind.

"you saved countless races from extinction, an Infinity of lives"

In Fact, Galactus himself only warned the Surfer of the coming of Abraxas when he died (returned to his Natural State) not of a Multi or Universal collapse:

"This Horror, that I have become, is the beginning, there is MORE MUCH MORE"

"A GREATER Horror, and a Greater Purpose"

"Galactus's last WARNING, of the Great Evil that STALKS the Universe"

And the issue ended peacefully without even the slightest hint of the Universe or the Multi-verse being in any kind of danger because Big G "died"

except for the one and only true danger, the danger Galactus warmed Surfer about: (and the Watcher also adds to this)

ABRAXAS!

hm

nice ss scan, and a well-thought out point. but your own scan discredits the theory. ss also goes on to claim that the 'evil' whatever it was, also overcame galactus at the end.

obviously, that is impossible since abraxas can NOT have been released yet . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
616 was merging well before abraxas made his appearance. you'll argue his very presence in the multiverse caused the merging.

Abraxas was around before the arc even began.

The very first page of the first issue of the Abraxas arc, he sends a decapitated head of Galactus into the 616 Universe, with an Alternate Nova inside.

At the end of Galactus death, Galactus told him that a greater horror would now come, by the end of the issue, this horror was already unleashed. (but not seen)

The bottom scans cover this.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll say the merging began with g's 'death'.

When Galactus was killed, (returned to his Natural State) the salvation of Worlds is what's mentioned not Multi or Universal damage of any kind.

"you saved countless races from extinction, an Infinity of lives"

In Fact, Galactus himself only warned the Surfer of the coming of Abraxas when he died (returned to his Natural State) not of a Multi or Universal collapse, or fold or chaos or anything.

"This Horror, that I have become, is the beginning, there is MORE MUCH MORE"

"A GREATER Horror, and a Greater Purpose"

"Galactus's last WARNING, of the Great Evil that STALKS the Universe"

And the issue ended peacefully without even the slightest hint of the Universe or the Multi-verse collapsing or going wacko because Big G "died"

except for the one and only true danger, the danger Galactus warmed Surfer about:

ABRAXAS!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas was around before the arc even began.

The very first page of the first issue of the Abraxas arc, he sends a decapitated head of Galactus into the 616 Universe, with an Alternate Nova inside.

At the end of Galactus death, Galactus told him that a greater horror would now come, by the end of the issue, this horror was already unleashed. (but not seen)

The bottom scans cover this.

When Galactus was killed, (returned to his Natural State) the salvation of Worlds is what's mentioned not Multi or Universal damage of any kind.

"you saved countless races from extinction, an Infinity of lives"

In Fact, Galactus himself only warned the Surfer of the coming of Abraxas when he died (returned to his Natural State) not of a Multi or Universal collapse, or fold or chaos or anything.

"This Horror, that I have become, is the beginning, there is MORE MUCH MORE"

"A GREATER Horror, and a Greater Purpose"

"Galactus's last WARNING, of the Great Evil that STALKS the Universe"

And the issue ended peacefully without even the slightest hint of the Universe or the Multi-verse collapsing or going wacko because Big G "died"

except for the one and only true danger, the danger Galactus warmed Surfer about:

ABRAXAS!

Seems like abraxas is the flip side of the big g. What horror did Big become? Could he have been abraxas or the doorway that lead to abraxas coming? And how was it that other galactus's where made in other realities when big came from Universe before the Current? Seems the main Big G is special and different from all the other Big G's.

Originally posted by leonidas
nice ss scan, and a well-thought out point. but your own scan discredits the theory. ss also goes on to claim that the 'evil' whatever it was, also overcame galactus at the end.

obviously, that is impossible since abraxas can NOT have been released yet . . .

Nah, friend, ain't no way he wasn't referring to Abraxas, I hate to bring it up but even the Official Marvel site says, he Galactus warned Surfer of Abraxas right before he died.

Surfer also says,

"and which finally overwhelmed him, so the responsibility is now mine, to find this evil, to fight against it"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Let just look at that one scan that defines it all:

"INTO EACH REALITY Eternity made certain there was a Galactus to keep Abraxas in check, UNTIL this REALITY'S Galactus DIED, and the DOORS of the Multi-verse became UNHINGED"

I'm not posting my opinion on the scan, just what it says, let's review it together:

I have two question, and it might settle everything.

When Roma said,

"UNTIL this REALITY'S Galactus DIED, and the DOORS of the Multi-verse became UNHINGED"

Something was taking place "UNTIL" ...

Did Roma say, the Multi-verse was Balanced, not collapsing, "UNTIL" ...?

Did Roma say, Abraxas was kept in check, "UNTIL" ...?

the 'something' that was happening UNTIL was that reality was fine. it didn't become 'unhinged' UNTIL galactus 'died', or . . . went natural . . . or . . . whatever he did. and abraxas was 'kept in check' UNTIL g died.

(if he didn't 'really' die, the whole arc is ridiculous since the entire premise falls in the crapper and it's not worth debating. so for the sake of the debate, we need to assume he DID die.)

i still say because we never SAW or HEARD of abraxas really doing anything to collapse or even ADD to the multiversal destruction, that he was a symptom -- a harbinger if you will, or a sign -- of multiversal destruction. when he 'appears' the multiverse is doomed. but not BECAUSE he appears. if you understand what i'm trying to say.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah, friend, ain't no way he wasn't referring to Abraxas, I hate to bring it up but even the Official Marvel site says, he Galactus warned Surfer of Abraxas right before he died.

Surfer also says,

"and which finally overwhelmed him, so the responsibility is now mine, to find this evil, to fight against it"

but . . . how could abraxas have overcome him . . .? 😕

IN the end, Parallax wins this fight. MR. master says that sometimes when something is referred to as universe, it really means multiverse. He said that when they say reality, they mean multiverse. So by applying this same logic to the Parrallax, Parallax collapsed the multiverse since multiple realities seeped in and out of existance. They were being created and wiped out as easily by Parallax's own power. Abraxas has no chance.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Seems like abraxas is the flip side of the big g. What horror did Big become? Could he have been abraxas or the doorway that lead to abraxas coming?

Wow, impressive nvr,

Abraxas is not the flip side of big G, but big G is the doorway that leads to Abraxas's coming.

See I presented scans, and we actually agreed on something.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And how was it that other galactus's where made in other realities when big came from Universe before the Current?

Multi-Eternity did that, so that every Universe in the Multi-verse stays balanced, thus keeping Abraxas in check.

You see,

Abraxas is the personification of destruction, the unbalance that takes place after a big G dies, is Abraxas embodied.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Seems the main Big G is special and different from all the other Big G's.

Not exactly,

If 616 big G was the only necessity to hold Abraxas in check, Multi-Eternity would not have bothered creating duplicates in every Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wow, impressive nvr,

Abraxas is not the flip side of big G, but big G is the doorway that leads to Abraxas's coming.

See I presented scans, and we actually agreed on something.

Multi-Eternity did that, so that every Universe in the Multi-verse stays balanced, thus keeping Abraxas in check.

You see,

Abraxas is the personification of destruction, the unbalance that takes place after a big G dies, is Abraxas embodied.

Not exactly,

If 616 big G was the only necessity to hold Abraxas in check, Multi-Eternity would not have bothered creating duplicates in every Universe.

BIg G in the main universe had to be special cuz only his UN could do what it did. if all the other un's were like it, abraxas could have taken one of the other Big G's UN's.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
BIg G in the main universe had to be special cuz only his UN could do what it did. if all the other un's were like it, abraxas could have taken one of the other Big G's UN's.

There's only one UN.

Which is why the Multi-verse had to be travelled in order to find that UN your talking about, the one and only UN.

you raise a fair point, nvr. galactus HAS died in other, alternate, universes. in what ifs he has died. can't recall off hand specific issues. an obvious one was korvac who wiped out the whole universe. didn't the goblin force destroy him as well . . .? there were at least a couple other times . . .

using those as points of reference (hard to do because they are old, but to uphold continuity writers should f'n check things out FIRST before making the kind of sweeping arcs that throw everything else into question . . .) maybe we SHOULD conclude that 616 is special. which is what i've said all along anyway, so it's nice to agree with myself. saves debate time. 😉

Originally posted by Mr Master
There's only one UN.

Which is why the Multi-verse had to be travelled in order to find that UN your talking about, the one and only UN.

Which brings me back to my point. How can the IG be more powerful than the CURRENT UN when the CURRENT UN is connected to this realitie's BIG G. WHo has steadily grown in power and importance since the the MAgus first stopped it's power. And since there is only one UN and it's part of the main realitie's BiG G, he would have to special above all the other Big G's.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There's only one UN.

Which is why the Multi-verse had to be travelled in order to find that UN your talking about, the one and only UN.

can't be. korvac destroyed his and the universe with it . . . the arc was all about alternate realities and beings who existed in different versions throughout the multiverse. nova even commented on abraxas's affinity for those types of beings.

the arc was a TESTAMENT to the existent of alternate realities.