Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually if you look at the handbooks Colossus is faster than Hercules if I remember right. He has level 3 speed and Herc. has level 2. Colossus has shown some nice agility feats also. I'd say he's got Herc. beat on speed and agility but everything else you mentioned I agree with.
Well I was talking pre level system, don't think I have looked at a handbook since the mid 80's.
Still point taken.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually if you look at the handbooks Colossus is faster than Hercules if I remember right. He has level 3 speed and Herc. has level 2. Colossus has shown some nice agility feats also. I'd say he's got Herc. beat on speed and agility but everything else you mentioned I agree with.
Quoted for truth.
in the new handbook hercules speed is superhuman while colossus is enhance human. the is no way colossus is faster than hercules. herc also have superior reflexes. both herc speed and reflexes are on par with thor. hercules is just better than colossus in every category. hercules takes 9.5/10 from colossus.
and about hercules being you are just being silly. hercules intelligent is 4/10 which is normal. his IQ is not below average unless you are saying colossus intelligence is above average which it is not. about hercules 3000 years experience he battle pluto and his demons in the underworld for centeries. he also fight the olympian giants all have class 100 strength. oh don't forget how he and ares are always fighting
Originally posted by Jyppe
He was barely alive in the end of the fight, besides. When he fought Namor, he seemed like a dumb slugger.
Barely alive yes, but it really wasent the point of if he would win or not. We all knew he wouldnt. He was going against a more powerful Hulk while being at his weakest level. The point was to show his skill advantage and how when using it he still makes it a tough figth to a point.
And what figth against Namor exactly? He had like four. The first two he showed good reaction and skill (as Namor did), in the Thomas Avengers run of the 80`s he was more into cheering Namor than just beating him up (not to say it wasent still a figth - it was, as should be) and the last was underwater, on Namor`s turf no less. I personally dont see where he was ever showed as a dumb slugger against Namor, feel free to point out.
Originally posted by Jyppe
Now we have to determinate how big the gap is. Is Colossus stronger than Mortal/Ancient Hercules?
Probably not. That Hercules was still credited to do stuff i dont see Colossus regulary doing, if ever. If you want to use the "Thing#7"appearance as a measure, then they migth be close, but Herc will still have the edge as he had against Thing, and i frankly dont regard Colossus to having a better record than Ben does overall.
Originally posted by Jyppe
According to the original mythos.. Well, yeah. That's what the "gods" usually did. Maybe he f*cked his wife for an eternity, or one of his boy friends. It is heavily suggested in the mythos that he was BI.
Not merely suggested, but implied. It wasent a shocking issue in that society as it was in ours for most of the last century.
However....what does that have to do with this? We know Herc doesnt have the temper to bide aside figths for long. What would be the odds of spending an eternity without figthing at all?
Originally posted by Jyppe
Hera didn't hate him, she let him mary on of her daughters. Not sure about Ares, but I doubt "full gods" clashed swords a lot in the "paradise".
Until that point where he became an Immortal, Hera hated its guts and did everything to have him failing and killed during its mortal span, even if not directly because of Zeus.
She was his nemesis.
Btw. The Gods did fougth among themselves in Paradise in some instances.
Barely alive yes, but it really wasent the point of if he would win or not. We all knew he wouldnt. He was going against a more powerful Hulk while being at his weakest level. The point was to show his skill advantage and how when using it he still makes it a tough figth to a point.
True enough.
Probably not. That Hercules was still credited to do stuff i dont see Colossus regulary doing, if ever. If you want to use the "Thing#7"appearance as a measure, then they migth be close, but Herc will still have the edge as he had against Thing, and i frankly dont regard Colossus to having a better record than Ben does overall.
We haven't really seen any insane feats in a while. Do, you think Immortal Herc is twice as strong as Colossus? 😕
Not merely suggested, but implied. It wasent a shocking issue in that society as it was in ours for most of the last century.
I don't consider homosexuality shocking, do you? We're not living "the last century" Ya know 😉
However....what does that have to do with this? We know Herc doesnt have the temper to bide aside figths for long. What would be the odds of spending an eternity without figthing at all?
The time flows differently among the "gods", besides. What makes you think he'd be going around fighting in the "heaven" when he can.. Just enjoy life?
Until that point where he became an Immortal, Hera hated its guts and did everything to have him failing and killed during its mortal span, even if not directly because of Zeus.She was his nemesis.
WAS his nemesis. According to the mythos Hera truend friendly after Heracles was brought to the olympus to be a god. She even offered her daughter for Heracles. not sure about the Marvel history.
Btw. The Gods did fougth among themselves in Paradise in some instances
I doubt Ares would have wanted the rage of the other gods on himself if he assaulted his brother.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Beast sucks. Give Colossus a better partner and they may have a chance. Going against Immortal Herc, you need another heavy hitter. Colossus just aint enough. Herc 9/10.
Iff you make it X-factor beast than he has a good partner, a heavy hitter (70 tons) And one of the most agile mutants on earth
Originally posted by jrodslam
Is it possible you can show where Beast(X-Factor) was 70 cl?
There are a couple of feats in the respect thread for him I believe, also there is this page from uncanny x men.net
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=57&page=7
It gives the issue numbers, I have the actual issues but I couldn't be bothered to root them out. 😛
Originally posted by Hercules
There are a couple of feats in the respect thread for him I believe, also there is this page from uncanny x men.nethttp://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=57&page=7
It gives the issue numbers, I have the actual issues but I couldn't be bothered to root them out. 😛
Im sorry. I missed the part where 70 cl was mentioned.🙁
Originally posted by jrodslam
Im sorry. I missed the part where 70 cl was mentioned.🙁
It isn't mentioned in there, just the issue numbers where it happened, like I said, some of the feats during that period are in the respect thread.
Class 70 is a rough estimate, that period in X factor he is seen duking it out with a Thor Clone and holding his own.
He is seen performing strength feats that he was never seen performing before, in the RPG update at that time he was listed at MN 75 strength which would put him anywhere from Class 50-Class 85.
Class 70 is roughly in the middle, I also pointed out in my other post in this thread that he KO'd a class 50 Frenzy in one shot.
She even says to him before he does it that he ain't so tough and shes out of his league, he mentions something about going through changes and lays her out.
Only other other person I have seen do that to Frenzy is Warpath in the New Mutants annual, he was class 70 then.
So makes sense that Beast was around that strong at the time too, basicaly he was much, much stronger than he is now.
Originally posted by Hercules
It isn't mentioned in there, just the issue numbers where it happened, like I said, some of the feats during that period are in the respect thread.Class 70 is a rough estimate, that period in X factor he is seen duking it out with a Thor Clone and holding his own.
He is seen performing strength feats that he was never seen performing before, in the RPG update at that time he was listed at MN 75 strength which would put him anywhere from Class 50-Class 85.
Class 70 is roughly in the middle, I also pointed out in my other post in this thread that he KO'd a class 50 Frenzy in one shot.
She even says to him before he does it that he ain't so tough and shes out of his league, he mentions something about going through changes and lays her out.
Only other other person I have seen do that to Frenzy is Warpath in the New Mutants annual, he was class 70 then.
So makes sense that Beast was around that strong at the time too, basicaly he was much, much stronger than he is now.
If anyone has these strength feats, id like to see them. As far as him knocking 50+ cl opponents out, that doesnt quite say he was in a high strength class. As far as i remember, wasnt Frenzy just strong? I dont remember her having a high durability. I also remember Iceman knocking her out if im not mistaken.
Originally posted by jrodslam
If anyone has these strength feats, id like to see them. As far as him knocking 50+ cl opponents out, that doesnt quite say he was in a high strength class. As far as i remember, wasnt Frenzy just strong? I dont remember her having a high durability. I also remember Iceman knocking her out if im not mistaken.
She has steel hard skin.
So kind of like a luke cage only a mutant woman version.
Originally posted by jrodslam
If anyone has these strength feats, id like to see them. As far as him knocking 50+ cl opponents out, that doesnt quite say he was in a high strength class. As far as i remember, wasnt Frenzy just strong? I dont remember her having a high durability. I also remember Iceman knocking her out if im not mistaken.
Well in the same annual, they drop her from at least 300 feet out of a helicopter, Firestar asks her is she will survive a fall from that height.
Domino, replies "Unfortunatley yes" she does have enhanced durability, to what degree I dunno but bullets have bounced off her.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1655
Her bio from uncanny xmen.net, it lists her as having "steel hard skin"
Originally posted by Hercules
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1655Her bio from uncanny xmen.net, it lists her as having "steel hard skin"
Ill concede about the enhanced durability although it doesnt seem on the level of cage. Iceman knocked her out with one punch. Thats hardly steel-like imo.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Ill concede about the enhanced durability although it doesnt seem on the level of cage. Iceman knocked her out with one punch. Thats hardly steel-like imo.
Like I said, I dunno how durable she is, just that she has enhanced durability, I wouldn't put her at Cages level either, I couldn't see Warpath one shoting Cage like he did Frenzy for instance.
Did you check the repect thread? I'm sure I saw one or two strength feats for Beast from around this time in there.
Shame I haven't got a scanner, in the fight against Frenzy and the Alliance of Evil, he jumps and lands so hard it causes a minor tremor.
Its all null and void in this fight though cause that was almost 20 years ago now. (1988 if memory serves)
Darthgoober, actually posted the Frenzy fight in the respect thraed, there are loads of scans of him tearing through ship in it also.
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7324/xfactor03320pq3.jpg
There is the link to Beast, knocking frenzy out and stating there have been some dramatic improvements.
Check the thread for some of the others.
Originally posted by Hercules
Like I said, I dunno how durable she is, just that she has enhanced durability, I wouldn't put her at Cages level either, I couldn't see Warpath one shoting Cage like he did Frenzy for instance.Did you check the repect thread? I'm sure I saw one or two strength feats for Beast from around this time in there.
Shame I haven't got a scanner, in the fight against Frenzy and the Alliance of Evil, he jumps and lands so hard it causes a minor tremor.
Its all null and void in this fight though cause that was almost 20 years ago now. (1988 if memory serves)
I didnt get a chance to look at the respect thread, but ill take a peep at it. He may have well been stronger than current/later versions of himself. I wouldnt doubt that considering feats in the 80's are highly impressive with certain characters. You have to understand my take on this because a while ago, many were saying that Beast is in some high class in strength yet doesnt have much to show for it.
Either way, i still think Colossus can use a much better teammate. Immortal Hercules? Beast just doesnt have what it takes to be enough of a distraction imo. Herc should be able to one-shot him then quickly finish off Colossus soon after.
