Civil War Report

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
They do more good and save more lives and the planet itself countless times more than some idiotes abuse their powers or make messes like Stamford. Like I said before, super heroes should be policed/trained by other super heroes, in the M.U it should be the Avengers, JLA for DC. Their roster are so big that they can actually have some members oversee other "supers" actions. The government if left to them in the end will use the "supers" to their own selfish needs.

Thats very general. That really only applies to heroes like Spider-Man who'll go out of their way to save your live. What about other heroes? What about a guy who eats radioactive tacos and decides to use his super gas to become a hero, not because he wants to save lives but because he just thinks it'd be cool. Or because he'll use it as a way to get girls? Not every superhero is honourable so you can't just generalize and say that they all do a good job. I'm afraid this is a case where the "guilty" must suffer for the innocent cause if another Stamford were to happen the heroes would have no one to blame but themselves for not taking steps to prevent it

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The "arrest" thing was an analogy. If a soldier is about to be detained by other soldiers for refusing orders, he does not have the right to tell them let me leave or I'll hurt you. Then attack them and steal a plane.Please don't tell me you're comparing Captain America disobeying orders and refusing to be arrested/detained to Jews in Nazi Germany.

I.e. people who choose to be costumed vigilantes who are being made to work under the auspices of government rather than work as free agents vs people who are born to an ethnic/religious group who were systematically persecuted and exterminated.

Just no.

😐

I was going to respond, but it seems like you've handled it pretty well. 👆

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Nope, they were cocking their weapons before Cap and Maria Hill even finished talking and she never said he was under arrest. As a soldier Cap has to be ready for anything and he fealt threathened by the soldiers cocking their weapons. He acted accordingly.

for once you and me agree on something... 😛

Originally posted by H. S. 6
A soldier doesn't blindly attack fellow soldiers who haven't even assaulted him. A soldier follows orders.

it wasnt blindly imo, cap was about to be taken in, and he knew it...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Are you seriously comparing putting on a costume and fighting crime to practicing a religion?!? 🤨

Besides, all the heroes have to do is sign a piece of paper or just stop being heroes if they don't have powers. I mean, its not like SHEILD doesn't already know who they are or anything

its not about that... they become part of a military force, and as cap said, it wouldnt be long before washington was deciding who was and wasnt a supervillain...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The "arrest" thing was an analogy. If a soldier is about to be detained by other soldiers for refusing orders, he does not have the right to tell them let me leave or I'll hurt you. Then attack them and steal a plane.Please don't tell me you're comparing Captain America disobeying orders and refusing to be arrested/detained to Jews in Nazi Germany.

I.e. people who choose to be costumed vigilantes who are being made to work under the auspices of government rather than work as free agents vs people who are born to an ethnic/religious group who were systematically persecuted and exterminated.

Just no.

😐

he was warning them that if they tried to take him in, he would defend himself... cap believes hill is wrong, and imo any hero is allowed to defend themselves when they see injustice, which is what, i think, cap sees this bill as...

Originally posted by marvelprince
Thats very general. That really only applies to heroes like Spider-Man who'll go out of their way to save your live. What about other heroes? What about a guy who eats radioactive tacos and decides to use his super gas to become a hero, not because he wants to save lives but because he just thinks it'd be cool. Or because he'll use it as a way to get girls? Not every superhero is honourable so you can't just generalize and say that they all do a good job. I'm afraid this is a case where the "guilty" must suffer for the innocent cause if another Stamford were to happen the heroes would have no one to blame but themselves for not taking steps to prevent it

stamford was a tragedy, even the anti-reg see it that way, but the heroes who have saved the world countless times, and have proven themselves to be capable of doing it right, and just happen to be anti reg, shouldnt have to suffer imo...

one other thing, in issue #3, when tony stark is leaving the x-mansion, he says something to his aide about containment... did i miss that or does anyone think tony already has plans for mutants in place?

Originally posted by pr1983
he was warning them that if they tried to take him in, he would defend himself... cap believes hill is wrong, and imo any hero is allowed to defend themselves when they see injustice, which is what, i think, cap sees this bill as...

Originally posted by pr1983
one other thing, in issue #3, when tony stark is leaving the x-mansion, he says something to his aide about containment... did i miss that or does anyone think tony already has plans for mutants in place?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"I don't agree with the law, so I'm not going to follow it." usually isn't a sound defense... nor is "Let me go free or I'll attack you." 😬

c'mon, its not that simple... 😛

these arent normal people, they're heroes, the government and the public owe them everything. hell, if not for guys like cap and namor, the allies in MU probably would have lost world war II. these guys have seen it all, and they've saved the world countless times... if someone as patriotic and loved as cap is against this, shouldnt that give some sort of indication that this law is just plain wrong? not all laws should be adhered to, especially one that will, imo, end up hurting more people than it helps...

i'm not saying for one minute that heroes shouldnt be accountable, but turning them into sanctioned superteams who have to report to the government? i agree with cap when he said 'heroes are above that kind of stuff' and i really think that given the contribution these people make on a daily basis, they deserve better...

hell, even after the law was passed they still went out and fought crime... 😖

If he does try anything Cyclops will just put a bullet in his shiny metal arse.

bloody tease... 😛

I don't really see how it hurts more people than it helps - non-compliance is the only reason there's been discord, injury and a death. Marvel have basically set-up pro-reg as the "bad guy", by making the means they've employed inappropriate, the Clor, the Negative Zone, but that doesn't mean there isn't merit to the idea that metahumans who choose to engage in "superheroing" be subject to the same scrutiny and accountability as any other "profession."

Originally posted by pr1983
its not about that... they become part of a military force, and as cap said, it wouldnt be long before washington was deciding who was and wasnt a supervillain...

So going and nearly becoming a terrorist is a better idea?!?

Thats not the way our government works

If the government oversteps its boundries, we vote out the people who are doing so and put in people who will restore order

Its not like the Registration Act is an ammendment, its only temporary

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't really see how it hurts more people than it helps - non-compliance is the only reason there's been discord, injury and a death. Marvel have basically set-up pro-reg as the "bad guy", by making the means they've employed inappropriate, the Clor, the Negative Zone, but that doesn't mean there isn't merit to the idea that metahumans who choose to engage in "superheroing" be subject to the same scrutiny and accountability as any other "profession."

but its not like any other profession is it, they're superheroes? they do things nobody else can do, they make the safety of earth and all its inhabitants their personal responsibility...

im not saying there's no merit, in fact i can easily see the logic in the registration, and can totally understand why people support it, its just not for me... 😬

exactly... trying to force people to adhere to this law caused heroes to fight, injure, and even kill each other... thats what i meant... 😛

plus, having to be employed by the government to be a hero? so a superpowered guy walking down the street sees a robbery taking place, but cant intervene because he isnt registered, and is left to watch as people are murdered because the so-called superteam was busy at the time...

and where would that leave the x-men? they have powers, they have practised being heroes. what happens next time magneto goes on a bender and rips up half of manhattan? what are they supposed to do? break the law and intervene? or do what they always do, stop magneto and save countless lives?

huh? huh? 😛

another point (i meant to make in my last post, but simply forgot 😮), not all heroes live in big shiny skyscrapers with advanced security systems... anonymity is a big deal to them, sure shield may know their identities, but if they register, their true identity is going to be alot easier to find for anyone who may want to take advantage of the situation... i think guys like cap, spidey and the anti guys feel that they can do their job equally as well without registration, so they shouldnt have to register... at least thats how i'd think they feel...

Why is the robber killing people? 😑
An ordinary person who tries to stop a crime isn't going to be charged with anything, why would an empowered person?

That was Xorn. 😛

I don't think divulging their real identities is essential to the concept of registration anyway. Besides I'm pretty sure a lot of their identities are already known to government.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why is the robber killing people? 😑

armed robber, mugger, whatever... 😛

That was Xorn. 😛

meh, argument still applies... 😛

I don't think divulging their real identities is essential to the concept of registration anyway. Besides I'm pretty sure a lot of their identities are already known to government.

i dont think many people outside of shield really do, and besides, if they're accountable to the people on that kind of level, how long before they're identities are made public?

Originally posted by Grimm22
So going and nearly becoming a terrorist is a better idea?!?

Thats not the way our government works

If the government oversteps its boundries, we vote out the people who are doing so and put in people who will restore order

Its not like the Registration Act is an ammendment, its only temporary

so they wait four years and decide what to do then?

and cap? a terrorist? even on the run he still saves lives and stops villains... hell, when he stole that plane, he made sure it wasnt damaged, and once it was landed took the pilot out and bought him dinner... i mean christ, if thats not a terrorist, i don't know what is... 😛

Originally posted by pr1983
and cap? a terrorist? even on the run he still saves lives and stops villains... hell, when he stole that plane, he made sure it wasnt damaged, and once it was landed took the pilot out and bought him dinner... i mean christ, if thats not a terrorist, i don't know what is... 😛

Cap smashed the windshield in. Not what I'd call "making sure it wasn't damaged."

A small point, but one I thought I should bring up. 😛

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Cap smashed the windshield in. Not what I'd call "making sure it wasn't damaged."

A small point, but one I thought I should bring up. 😛

a windshield that can easily be replaced, not a couple of missiles or anything truly dangerous... 😛

Could some one explain why Iron man is being depicted as shut a w@nker ? Especially seeing as his perspective is the most logical, considering the general public. I know it would have been hard to illustate cap as a badguy, but why didn't they just have the two leaders on opposite sides. Im not looking forward to seeing Caps side win. 🙁 🙂

P.S. Im back !

Originally posted by pr1983
these arent normal people, they're heroes, the government and the public owe them everything. hell, if not for guys like cap and namor, the allies in MU probably would have lost world war II. these guys have seen it all, and they've saved the world countless times... if someone as patriotic and loved as cap is against this, shouldnt that give some sort of indication that this law is just plain wrong? not all laws should be adhered to, especially one that will, imo, end up hurting more people than it helps...

I don't agree with this at all. So because someone has radioactive pants they're suddenly beyond reproach? I do agree that they deserve respect for putting their lives on the line but if you think stopping a mugger means I'm gonna turn my head when you screw up and cause lives to be lost then you've got another thing coming.

Originally posted by pr1983
i'm not saying for one minute that heroes shouldnt be accountable, but turning them into sanctioned superteams who have to report to the government? i agree with cap when he said 'heroes are above that kind of stuff' and i really think that given the contribution these people make on a daily basis, they deserve better...

This is where it gets hard cause you really need to find a way to distinguish between the 'good' heroes and not so good ones. For every Captain America there could also be an Ant-Man (if you want to know why I say he's not so good read his new series). How do you tell the difference?

Originally posted by Prof Yahman
Could some one explain why Iron man is being depicted as shut a w@nker ? Especially seeing as his perspective is the most logical, considering the general public. I know it would have been hard to illustate cap as a badguy, but why didn't they just have the two leaders on opposite sides. Im not looking forward to seeing Caps side win. 🙁 🙂

P.S. Im back !

wb... and yeah, it is quite one-sided...

Originally posted by marvelprince
I don't agree with this at all. So because someone has radioactive pants they're suddenly beyond reproach? I do agree that they deserve respect for putting their lives on the line but if you think stopping a mugger means I'm gonna turn my head when you screw up and cause lives to be lost then you've got another thing coming.

not at all... anybody like the people who caused what happened in stamford needs to be severely examined and put under a good bit of scrutiny...

i'm talking about the pros, the vets, the guys who've been around for years and have proven themselves to the public and to the superhero community... those are the people i think are being treated unfairly... when i made that example i was referring to someone like spidey or cap, someone who's been doing this gig for years...

This is where it gets hard cause you really need to find a way to distinguish between the 'good' heroes and not so good ones. For every Captain America there could also be an Ant-Man (if you want to know why I say he's not so good read his new series). How do you tell the difference?

by their record, or why not just ask the other heroes? i'll bet if there was a superhuman council composed of members of the F4, Avengers, the X-Men and such, they'd be in a much better position to decide who's deserving and who's not...

and if someone isnt but insists anyway, the heroes will deal with it 'in house' i believe the term is... 😬

i'm opposed to a blanket ban, which is whats going on in marvel atm...

Okay so I went and picked up Target X #1 because I wanted a better understanding of New X-Men #33...so was it just me?

Not an actual spoiler ahead...but it is kind of..

Spoiler:
Or did anyone else think...the relevation at the end could possibly make Tony look like Saint...when compared to Capt...

What was the revelation?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Okay so I went and picked up Target X #1 because I wanted a better understanding of New X-Men #33...so was it just me?

Not an actual spoiler ahead...but it is kind of..

Spoiler:
Or did anyone else think...the relevation at the end could possibly make Tony look like Saint...when compared to Capt...

Its very cryptic to formulate a conclussion at least until it develops further next issues but it was a pretty good issue I think it ties with New X-men# 33 which just came out as well. Art was pretty good too.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
What was the revelation?

Like Darth Vicious says it was quite cryptic...and it could possibly work both ways..

But..

Spoiler:
This could possibly mean that Capt was some how involved in the creation/exploitation of X-23....or he just knew about the project maybe through his links with Wolverine...and wasn't actually involved...the next issue should clarify his stance.

BTW Yeah I liked the issue...and yeah the art is good...

Originally posted by pr1983

and cap? a terrorist? even on the run he still saves lives and stops villains... hell, when he stole that plane, he made sure it wasnt damaged, and once it was landed took the pilot out and bought him dinner... i mean christ, if thats not a terrorist, i don't know what is... 😛

Agreed ✅

At first Cap and the Anti-Regs were just heroes working underground

However after the first battle with the pro-regs, the anti-regs have become less concerned with being heroes and more concerned with just beating the Pro-Regs at any cost

Hell look at the battle of yancy street! How is that not terrorism?!? Attacking police and SHEILD officers! Both Cap and Iron Man need to take a step back and realize what they are doing