LOTF Inconsistencies

Hi guys, I just finished reading Betrayal and I have a shitload of questions that deal with inconsistencies of the star wars universe. I've discussed some of this with lightsnake but I'd like to get some of your opinions.

First question is the most important. At age 25, Jacen Solo is a complete master of the force, while at age 22-23, Anakin wasn't even close, and neither was Luke. So are they trying to tell us that Jacen's potential is bigger than the chosen one and his son? Or that Jacen's teachings were of better quality compared to Anakin and certainly Luke? It really makes no sense to me here.

Another question is, why are they making it seem that Jacen at 25 is as powerful as Luke is at 60? Are they implying he's going to become more powerful than Luke? Certainly his quality of teachings at 25 is superior to Luke's at 25, but apparently Luke's potential is equal to that of his father, and canonically, they have the highest potential in the history of SW. I don't mind Jacen being all this powerful but they're treading on thin ice here in terms of contradicting the concept of star wars.

Remember that neither Luke nor Anakin were young when they began their training, whereas Jacen has been trained almost from birth. And again both Anakin and Luke have only learned of the Force from one PoV (if u don't count Palpatines influence on Anakin) while Jacen had traveled the galaxy to get as many views of the Force as possible. To compare it to something earth-like: Anakin and Luke can be compared to Judo experts, where Jacen has spent time mastering Judo, Kung fu, Karate, Jujitsu etc etc.

That's a possibility too, but that still doesn't answer the question of potential, and how LOTF makes it seem that jacen has more than Anakin and Luke.

Well it will be very hard to measure raw potential. Its pointless to have enormous amounts of potential if u haven't got the skills to use them. If Anakin or Luke had gotten the same treatment as Jacen they might have become much more stronger then what they now are/were.

I still don't see what's so impressive about Jacen with the force, what is his actual greatest feat?

Yeah, not sure how Jacen is all that spectacular...

In any case, I dislike the whole 'Different views of the Force!' thing. From the way the movie puts it, it's one way or the other, Light or Dark. There shouldn't be other factors, and you shouldn't be able to use the two concurrently...

Originally posted by Captain REX
Yeah, not sure how Jacen is all that spectacular...

In any case, I dislike the whole 'Different views of the Force!' thing. From the way the movie puts it, it's one way or the other, Light or Dark. There shouldn't be other factors, and you shouldn't be able to use the two concurrently...

Well that's the beauty of LOTF, although it kind of destroys Lucas' vision. LOTF adds an entire grey side to the force, although it's a grey side that leads to the darkside. It actually does make sense if you think about it, but that's assuming Lumiya isn't full of shit. Either way the book does give off the impression that Jacen is or will be more powerful than Anakin/Luke, which would contradict Lucas' vision of Anakin/Luke being the most powerful characters in the star wars universe.

The Grey Side is stupid...and Lumiya is, of course, full of shit.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I still don't see what's so impressive about Jacen with the force, what is his actual greatest feat?

Well, he did kill the Supreme Overlord while doing a bunch of other stuff. I'll have to check TUF to be exact.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Well, he did kill the Supreme Overlord while doing a bunch of other stuff. I'll have to check TUF to be exact.

Luke killed the supreme overlord, not Jacen.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Yeah, not sure how Jacen is all that spectacular...

In any case, I dislike the whole 'Different views of the Force!' thing. From the way the movie puts it, it's one way or the other, Light or Dark. There shouldn't be other factors, and you shouldn't be able to use the two concurrently...

There may not necessarily be an in between of the Light and Dark side but there are different ways on either side. You can be of the Dark side because you don't give a shit and you look out for number one, regardless of who else suffers. You can also be of the Dark side because you like to kill, steal, and be a general dick.

Then there's the Light side. The Jedi were of the Light side, they held reason and rationale above all else. Emotion and aggression were looked down upon. But then there's the Jensaarai, from I, Jedi. They were also followers of the Light but didn't see emotion and aggression as something that could lead one to the Dark side but rather something that could be used to one's advantage when used properly.

Anyway, back on topic. You have to take into account that both Luke's and Anakin's training were pretty unorthodox. Now I didn't read any of the NJO stuff yet but Anakin's ascension to Jedi Knight was during the Clone Wars. Not the best of situations to learn. And Luke pretty much got a crash course on Jedi from Yoda on Dagobah.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Luke killed the supreme overlord, not Jacen.

Originally posted by Marxman
There may not necessarily be an in between of the Light and Dark side but there are different ways on either side. You can be of the Dark side because you don't give a shit and you look out for number one, regardless of who else suffers. You can also be of the Dark side because you like to kill, steal, and be a general dick.

Then there's the Light side. The Jedi were of the Light side, they held reason and rationale above all else. Emotion and aggression were looked down upon. But then there's the Jensaarai, from I, Jedi. They were also followers of the Light but didn't see emotion and aggression as something that could lead one to the Dark side but rather something that could be used to one's advantage when used properly.

Anyway, back on topic. You have to take into account that both Luke's and Anakin's training were pretty unorthodox. Now I didn't read any of the NJO stuff yet but Anakin's ascension to Jedi Knight was during the Clone Wars. Not the best of situations to learn. And Luke pretty much got a crash course on Jedi from Yoda on Dagobah.

Ok I suppose his training was better due to his 5 year journey. However, that doesn't explain how LOTF indirectly places him on par with Luke.

Well, I haven't actually read the NJO books, but from what I've heard, hasn't Luke gone past his prime by LotF? Didn't he reach his peak by DN? I was always under the impression that by LotF, he was aging and growing weaker.

But of course, Jacen's earlier and superior training would factor in heavily. I mean he was trained from birth, he's just begun training in the darkside, he has learnt pretty much every force philosophy there is, Luke started pretty late, and he was mostly self trained to begin with.

And really, it's a mystery how the midi-chlorian count varies along force sensitive bloodlines, Jacen could possibly have as much or more potential than Luke.

But I really have to ask, how does LotF indirectly place him on par with Luke? I have yet to hear any feat that places him high up on the scales really, and definitely nothing that comes close to some of Luke's; controlling black wholes, concealing a entire planet from the force etc.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Well, I haven't actually read the NJO books, but from what I've heard, hasn't Luke gone past his prime by LotF? Didn't he reach his peak by DN? I was always under the impression that by LotF, he was aging and growing weaker.

But of course, Jacen's earlier and superior training would factor in heavily. I mean he was trained from birth, he's just begun training in the darkside, he has learnt pretty much every force philosophy there is, Luke started pretty late, and he was mostly self trained to begin with.

And really, it's a mystery how the midi-chlorian count varies along force sensitive bloodlines, Jacen could possibly have as much or more potential than Luke.

But I really have to ask, how does LotF indirectly place him on par with Luke? I have yet to hear any feat that places him high up on the scales really, and definitely nothing that comes close to some of Luke's; controlling black wholes, concealing a entire planet from the force etc.

The fact that he I guess sees a vision of himself killing Luke in a lightsaber fight. And no, I believe Luke reaches his peak by LOTF, not DN.

But we're talking in respect to his force potential, Jacen possibly beating Luke in a ligthsaber duel at any given time doesn't really say much for how he currently compares to Luke with the force.

I suppose but at the same time, if Luke's overall potential is greater(which it should be), there is no reason he should lose a lightsaber duel.

But should his potential with a lightsaber technically be better? How prodigious someone is with a lightsaber isn't genetic, correct? So technically, if Jacen did become better with a lightsaber, it wouldn't really be an inconsistency would it? It would just mean that Jacen was an overall better lightsaber duelist, which wouldn't be inconsistent in respect to his force potential.

Originally posted by Sexyback
But should his potential with a lightsaber technically be better? How prodigious someone is with a lightsaber isn't genetic, correct? So technically, if Jacen did become better with a lightsaber, it wouldn't really be an inconsistency would it? It would just mean that Jacen was an overall better lightsaber duelist, which wouldn't be inconsistent in respect to his force potential.

I suppose but I believe Luke became the greatest lightsaber duelist of all time by DN, so the inconsistency is that Jacen could become better than him at a young age, or better than him at all.

Originally posted by Marxman
They were also followers of the Light but didn't see emotion and aggression as something that could lead one to the Dark side but rather something that could be used to one's advantage when used properly.

No, that's beyond a different approach to the Light side and is just plain wrong. GL has made this VERY clear, that aggression and the use of emotion are parts of the Dark Side. This is absolute and cannot be contested; any source making out otherwise is incorrect.