Originally posted by LordFearIt really wasn't brutalized...
Hulk in his savage version alone can dance with Juggy any day of the week, Cyttorak my ass. Hulk freaks on him. If I remember correctly, War Hulk brutalized Juggy.
Originally posted by outarddwarf
It really wasn't brutalized...
Juggernaut never bled and never cryed out in pain. All that really happened was that juggernaut was pushing Hulk back then eventually hulk snakes out a little whip thing wraps it around his leg, swings and throws him. Juggernaut was no hurt by this. Then later, war is threatening to decapitate him but never gets to use the sword so we don't know if it would have worked or not.
To add on to that, I'd liked to add that even if juggernaut were decapitated, based on when juggernaut was reduced to a skeleton, I doubt decapitating the juggernaut would stop him.
Originally posted by Evangel94
To add on to that, I'd liked to add that even if juggernaut were decapitated, based on when juggernaut was reduced to a skeleton, I doubt decapitating the juggernaut would stop him.
If logan were reduced to a skeleton, he would come back, correct? But isn't one of the ways to kill him for good decapitation?
Id think Juggernaut, even with the powers, would be dead if he was decapitated, but thats just my opinion.
The point of the thread by the op is not whether Hulk could kill Juggernaut, but if he would move him. And after it being pointed out that Juggernaut is unstoppable, not immovable, the debate became whether or not Hulk could send him flying.
'Onslaught' Juggernaut was not depowered to my knowledge. So Onslaught sent his a$$ flying and we all know what Savage Hulk did to Onslaught w/o the Power Gem. The Power Gem gives absolute control of power to its bearer. When Nebula confronts the cosmic entities, I believe Thanos makes a comment, noting, "Nebula is overwhelmed by the multi-prong attack upon her. She's not used to omnipotence. But any fool can use the Power Gem to grant himself greater power." Which she does successfully. Like the other guy said, if Dakota Fanning wanted to knock out Juggy, she could do it. You guys act like Savage Hulk can't even form a coherent thought.
I will grant one premise however, I do not think the Power Gem works on the subconscious level to great effect. Therefore, if Savage Hulk thought the Power Gem were a green jolly rancher and ate it, he'd be hard pressed to will himself the amped power. Maybe on a slight subconscious level it would have an effect, but not a great one. In conclusion, unfettered access to Power depends only on knowledge of what the Power Gem is and nothing else. There is no secret password or configuration to make it work. That's the point of the Power Gem, mastery over Power. Same with the other Infinity Gems.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The point of the thread by the op is not whether Hulk could kill Juggernaut, but if he would move him. And after it being pointed out that Juggernaut is unstoppable, not immovable, the debate became whether or not Hulk could send him flying.'Onslaught' Juggernaut was not depowered to my knowledge. So Onslaught sent his a$$ flying and we all know what Savage Hulk did to Onslaught w/o the Power Gem. The Power Gem gives absolute control of power to its bearer. When Nebula confronts the cosmic entities, I believe Thanos makes a comment, noting, "Nebula is overwhelmed by the multi-prong attack upon her. She's not used to omnipotence. But any fool can use the Power Gem to grant himself greater power." Which she does successfully. Like the other guy said, if Dakota Fanning wanted to knock out Juggy, she could do it. You guys act like Savage Hulk can't even form a coherent thought.
I will grant one premise however, I do not think the Power Gem works on the subconscious level to great effect. Therefore, if Savage Hulk thought the Power Gem were a green jolly rancher and ate it, he'd be hard pressed to will himself the amped power. Maybe on a slight subconscious level it would have an effect, but not a great one. In conclusion, unfettered access to Power depends only on knowledge of what the Power Gem is and nothing else. There is no secret password or configuration to make it work. That's the point of the Power Gem, mastery over Power. Same with the other Infinity Gems.
We like to discount the Onslaught saga here, mainly do to the massive PIS it displayed.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Juggernaut was depowered that time read All New Exiles he regained his powers after he got free from the Gem Of Cyttorak (which was never inside him)
Onslaught' Juggernaut was not depowered to my knowledge. So
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So Onslaught sent his a$$ flying and we all know what Savage Hulk did to Onslaught w/o the Power Gem.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The Power Gem gives absolute control of power to its bearer.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0😆 😆 😆
Like the other guy said, if Dakota Fanning wanted to knock out Juggy, she could do it. You guys act like Savage Hulk can't even form a coherent thought.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Therefore, if Savage Hulk thought the Power Gem were a green jolly rancher and ate it, he'd be hard pressed to will himself the amped power.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666Cool. Thanks for the clairification.
Juggernaut was depowered that time read All New Exiles he regained his powers after he got free from the Gem Of Cyttorak (which was never inside him)
Originally posted by juggernaut66666I happen to half-agree with your viewpoint. However there are problems with this viewpoint. First, Onslaught keeps preventing everyone from getting near him the entire time. Throwing them away, creating shields and tempests, etc. If he really wanted to be released from his shell, why didn't he just let everyone pound on him? He clearly fought against them. I also don't think it was Onslaught's plan to reach a 'final form.' The form he was in was sufficient enough to destroy everything, which became his plan after deciding that nobody should survive the Onslaught. He probably would have been satisfied killing everybody in that pre-final form he took. Therefore, since 1) he was literally fighting everybody off and 2) already had enough power in his pre-final form to kill everyone, I don't believe his plan was to "let" Hulk destroy his corporeal form.
Maybe because Onslaught wanted Hulk to crack his armor to reach his final form.
But granted, he was pretty happy when it happened and that presupposes that he knew if anybody was ever strong enough to do it, that was what was going to happen. That was always my take on 'Onslaught.' So I half-agree with you.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666Thor wanted to destroy Asgard. He had no full potential in mind when he was using it. Failing to draw out its full potential presupposes that he actually tried to release its full potential. Where in 'Blood and Thunder' did you read he tried releasing the Power Gem's full potential? Amping yourself enough to destroy Asgard does not require full potential power.
No one was able to use to it's full potentional not even Thor who is farmore smarter then Hulk and has thousands of years of fighting expirience.What makes you think Hulk could use it?
Originally posted by juggernaut66666This is a fair argument but only if you presuppose that he has no knowledge of what it is. Hulk has always had conscious thought. He knows whats going on and knows what he is doing. He's not mindless. Savage Hulk is more like an angry child. But if you explained to an angry child that this Power Gem gives you as much power as you want, that angry child would understand that.
Hulk is too stupid to use the gem.
Your argument seems to be, Hulk would never recognize what the Power Gem is. Well, that is only fair to say if the OP decides it so. In that case, I would agree. But if Hulk knew it was the Power Gem and what it basically is, all bets are off, he would have access to unlimited strength. He may not be able to will himself to shoot blasts of energy, but he sure knows what strength means and what amping his strength means. In this crude way, even child-minded Savage Hulk could will himself to the appropriate power level to knock out Juggy.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I happen to half-agree with your viewpoint. However there are problems with this viewpoint. First, Onslaught keeps preventing everyone from getting near him the entire time. Throwing them away, creating shields and tempests, etc. If he really wanted to be released from his shell, why didn't he just let everyone pound on him? He clearly fought against them. I also don't think it was Onslaught's plan to reach a 'final form.' The form he was in was sufficient enough to destroy everything, which became his plan after deciding that nobody should survive the Onslaught. He probably would have been satisfied killing everybody in that pre-final form he took. Therefore, since 1) he was literally fighting everybody off and 2) already had enough power in his pre-final form to kill everyone, I don't believe his plan was to "let" Hulk destroy his corporeal form.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Thor with power gem was handled by Thanos...
Thor wanted to destroy Asgard. He had no full potential in mind when he was using it. Failing to draw out its full potential presupposes that he actually tried to release its full potential. Where in 'Blood and Thunder' did you read he tried releasing the Power Gem's full potential? Amping yourself enough to destroy Asgard does not require full potential power.
This is a fair argument but only if you presuppose that he has no knowledge of what it is. Hulk has always had conscious thought. He knows whats going on and knows what he is doing. He's not mindless. Savage Hulk is more like an angry child. But if you explained to an angry child that this Power Gem gives you as much power as you want, that angry child would understand that.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your argument seems to be, Hulk would never recognize what the Power Gem is. Well, that is only fair to say if the OP decides it so. In that case, I would agree. But if Hulk knew it was the Power Gem and what it basically is, all bets are off, he would have access to unlimited strength. He may not be able to will himself to shoot blasts of energy, but he sure knows what strength means and what amping his strength means. In this crude way, even child-minded Savage Hulk could will himself to the appropriate power level to knock out Juggy.
If you agree that Onslaught was trying to get Hulk angry enough in this roundabout way, than you seem to accept that Savage Hulk can augment his strength limitlessly through rage and that really, Savage Hulk was Onslaught's only option in the strength department. Why then, having accepted all this, even to the point of arguing for it, are you so skeptical that Savage Hulk could augment his physcal strength to the point where he could knock out Juggernaut?
Moving on to your next point, you continually assert that nobody can access a full potential output from the Power Gem. You cite how Thanos "handled" Thor when he had it. Can you tell me how you could possibly think that Thanos "handled" Thor w/ Power Gem? Thanos gave up trying to fight him physically and used some cheap containment gun on him. Call it what you like, a spatial/temporal containment field, I dunno. Guy's mastered teleportation... I don't begrudge him using a piece of tech to win in a non-physical way.
But before that cop-out plot device, for every time Thanos got a shot in, Thor kept one-upping him, even drawing Thanos' blood. Now, in no way am I a Thanos hater, I think Darkseid has to stand on a stool to kiss his a$$, but no way did Thanos ever "handle" Power Gem Thor. If anything, the most appropriate interpretation of the fight is:
1) Thor hits Thanos.
2) Thanos shows he can take it and hits him back.
3) Thor amps his power up and beats on him some more.
4) Thanos' forcefield is breaking, but he still takes it, and hits him back.
5) Thor amps his power up more and starts wailing on him again having breached his forcefield drawing blood.
6) Thanos is a badass and would continue but finally thinks, "$#%^ this. I'm not a stupid brawler. Let me get my containment gun."
If I remember what Thanos says after zapping Thor, he warns Surfer that if Thor escapes, Thor will kill them all. So that would suggest that Thanos would have lost eventually unless he found ways around Thor's amplified power from the Power Gem. But I don't have the entire issue to scan. If you do, please post em up. The only things I have are parts of the fight.
Here, I found most of the fight in the Thanos Respect Thread. But sadly, the scans end before Thanos and Surfer start talking about what to do with Thor after immobilizing him. Give Thanos respect, but he does not pwnorz Power Gem Thor. He takes and gives shots, but if anything, the fight illustrates how Thor was amping himself more and more til Thanos couldn't physically deal with it anymore.
1.http://img159.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...mage=bbt3fj.jpg
2.http://img149.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt26bj.jpg
3.http://img92.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9...age=bbt38nq.jpg
4.http://img240.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt43el.jpg
5.http://img237.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt56ro.jpg
6.http://img235.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt61ym.jpg
7.http://img233.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt71pc.jpg
8.http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/64...rv3088156tf.jpg
9.http://img230.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt94gp.jpg
10.http://img228.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...ge=bbt109xj.jpg
11.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088205cm.jpg
12.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088216vo.jpg
Besides, the whole premise of the story is that Thor had the power to destroy Asgard now that he got the Power Gem. Why is everybody crapping in their pants (Strange, Surfer, Warlock, Thanos, Odin) if Thor was only at a level of power weaker than Thanos? It makes no sense with how the characters were reacting and completely undermines the whole plot. You're telling me a being who gets wrecked by Thanos has the power to destroy Asgard? Sorry, I don't buy your position. You misinterpreted the fight and what the Power Gem can really do.
Fact is, everybody in 'Blood and Thunder' was scared and for good reason. Thor was gonna kill them all and they had to find a way around the Power Gem to save the day. The climax involves them fighting on the mental/spiritual plane which lends more credence to my assessment that they couldn't deal with Thor physically. Just because Power Gem Thor didn't one-shot Thanos right from the beginning doesn't disprove the gem's ability to grant ever greater power.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Here, I found most of the fight in the Thanos Respect Thread. But sadly, the scans end before Thanos and Surfer start talking about what to do with Thor after immobilizing him. Give Thanos respect, but he does not pwnorz Power Gem Thor. He takes and gives shots, but if anything, the fight illustrates how Thor was amping himself more and more til Thanos couldn't physically deal with it anymore.1.http://img159.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...mage=bbt3fj.jpg
2.http://img149.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt26bj.jpg
3.http://img92.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9...age=bbt38nq.jpg
4.http://img240.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt43el.jpg
5.http://img237.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt56ro.jpg
6.http://img235.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt61ym.jpg
7.http://img233.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt71pc.jpg
8.http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/64...rv3088156tf.jpg
9.http://img230.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt94gp.jpg
10.http://img228.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...ge=bbt109xj.jpg
11.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088205cm.jpg
12.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088216vo.jpgBesides, the whole premise of the story is that Thor had the power to destroy Asgard now that he got the Power Gem. Why is everybody crapping in their pants (Strange, Surfer, Warlock, Thanos, Odin) if Thor was only at a level of power weaker than Thanos? It makes no sense with how the characters were reacting and completely undermines the whole plot. You're telling me a being who gets wrecked by Thanos has the power to destroy Asgard? Sorry, I don't buy your position. You misinterpreted the fight and what the Power Gem can really do.
Fact is, everybody in 'Blood and Thunder' was scared and for good reason. Thor was gonna kill them all and they had to find a way around the Power Gem to save the day. The climax involves them fighting on the mental/spiritual plane which lends more credence to my assessment that they couldn't deal with Thor physically. Just because Power Gem Thor didn't one-shot Thanos right from the beginning doesn't disprove the gem's ability to grant ever greater power.
None of those links work.
Originally posted by Evangel94When talking about Nebula, I think Thanos' words were, "With such might, any dullard would eventually prove victorious."
The power gem is not that easy to use. An angry hulk with the intellect of a child isn't going to tap into the gem 100%.
There's also the matter of why people keep insisting that you have to access the Power Gem 100%. What does that even mean? If I think, more strength, the Power Gem gives it to you. Do you really think that if you're not smart enough, the Power Gem sets a limit? Like 10,000 ton lifting strength or something? What the hell does 100% even mean? I'ma go with Thanos and continue to believe that as long as you want more power, it gives you more power. Whether you have the ability to conceive of the appropriate power level right from the start and one-shot makes no difference in a fight like this. If Savage Hulk doesn't succeed with the amoutn of strength he was thinkign of at first, he'll just think "more strength dammit," and so on and so forth and that's about as simple as it gets.
EDIT: The links don't work? That's odd. Let me link directly to the Thanos Respect Thread itself then. I think it's on the 2nd page.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you agree that Onslaught was trying to get Hulk angry enough in this roundabout way, than you seem to accept that Savage Hulk can augment his strength limitlessly through rage and that really, Savage Hulk was Onslaught's only option in the strength department. Why then, having accepted all this, even to the point of arguing for it, are you so skeptical that Savage Hulk could augment his physcal strength to the point where he could knock out Juggernaut?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Moving on to your next point, you continually assert that nobody can access a full potential output from the Power Gem. You cite how Thanos "handled" Thor when he had it. Can you tell me how you could possibly think that Thanos "handled" Thor w/ Power Gem? Thanos gave up trying to fight him physically and used some cheap containment gun on him. Call it what you like, a spatial/temporal containment field, I dunno. Guy's mastered teleportation... I don't begrudge him using a piece of tech to win in a non-physical way.But before that cop-out plot device, for every time Thanos got a shot in, Thor kept one-upping him, even drawing Thanos' blood. Now, in no way am I a Thanos hater, I think Darkseid has to stand on a stool to kiss his a$$, but no way did Thanos ever "handle" Power Gem Thor. If anything, the most appropriate interpretation of the fight is:
1) Thor hits Thanos.
2) Thanos shows he can take it and hits him back.
3) Thor amps his power up and beats on him some more.
4) Thanos' forcefield is breaking, but he still takes it, and hits him back.
5) Thor amps his power up more and starts wailing on him again having breached his forcefield drawing blood.
6) Thanos is a badass and would continue but finally thinks, "$#%^ this. I'm not a stupid brawler. Let me get my containment gun."If I remember what Thanos says after zapping Thor, he warns Surfer that if Thor escapes, Thor will kill them all. So that would suggest that Thanos would have lost eventually unless he found ways around Thor's amplified power from the Power Gem. But I don't have the entire issue to scan. If you do, please post em up. The only things I have are parts of the fight.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Come again ? The only victory of Surfer that I know, is in Hulk 250 (Savage Hulk I think), and that was because Surfer absorbed the gamma radiation.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Not that long ago, they fought again, and Hulk pretty much kicked Surfer around. Hulk also fought Surfer and Namor at the same time, and did well. And in Planet Hulk, he almost kills Surfer.
B]
Originally posted by Kid KurdyHe still got beaten and Surfer is till above those guys.
[B]
Mindless Hulk also has fought Wonderman, She-Hulk, Hercules, Namor, Captain America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel and a few other Avengers at the same time, and he was Kicking Ass !!! That was after he beat the living daylights out of Doc Samson.
B]
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
[B]
Thor is considered Surfers equal. Guess who has beaten Thor quite a few times ?Oh, and last but not least, Thing has knocked down Surfer. Hulk >>>>> Thing.
You see people, it isn't as simple as it looks.
