The strongest villain in X-Men

Originally posted by LordKaos
The Dark Phoenix had a huge impact on the X-men, because she was of them, up until jean died again the memories of the dark phoenix has haunted the xmen whenever jean got a power upgrade and especially when she began calling herself phoenix again. The Shi'ar have been impacted so much that they eradicated the grey genome just to prevent another Dark Phoenix. Cable said that even in the very distant future people told stories about the dark phoenix to frighten young telepaths. She did not crush D'bari, she ate it's sun a very big difference.
Once they figured out how to defeat Onslaught it took little effort to put him down all they had to do was run into him and attack. NOBODY, took dark phoenix down. She went up against all the Xmen, the imperial guard and the warship of the Shi'ar empress, and all they managed to do was buy the consciousness of jean enough time to "end" her life. and yes lets put aside it being crushed in his hand because it's a ridiculous claim.

What happened in Cable's future, means jack shit. The Shi'ar was impacted? plea puh please.

Onslaught lead to Zero Tolerance, thanks to Onslaught the world didn't have much faith in mutants - impact
Every Avenger died, the ones we have now aren't the original 616 heroes - impact
Uatu came to to earth during the Onslaught Saga. Obviously, big business.

Moira said that X-man and dark Phoenix were equals. Onslaught didn't even have to try in order to defeat x-man. Though Moira might've been wrong.

Cassandra Nova killed 16 million mutants, that was over 95% of the mutant population. After that there was nothing but a couple of mutants left.
She wrecked havok in Lilandra's mind, ending in a divorce between her and Xavier.
She crushed most of the shi'ar empire and killed a good number of Imperial Guardians.
She outed Xavier as a mutant and completely wrecked Beast's confidence.

Let me sum it up for you.

Cassandra nova killed more mutants than Dark Phoenix
Cassandra hurt the Shi'ar more than Dark Phoenix
Cassandra caused more problems for the x-men than Dark Phoenix

Saying what happened in his future means jack shit is the best you could come up with? you said Dp had no impact, i merely let you know that people were still talking about her over a thousand years in the future sounds like an impact to me.
So your saying that the shi'ar came to earth to kill all of the grey line had nothing to do with the Dark Phoenix? how did you put it "plea puh please"

you're OZT reference means jack shit, he was not the cause he was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back

Moira said they were both off the charts, meaning immeasurable, you have no idea who was the strongest, if we both light fires that are hotter than 10,000 degrees but our thermometers only go to 10,000 and it breaks who's to say which fire was hotter?

DP killed 5 billion this a test of strength not impact, you act like Cn killed the mutants she merely unleashed sentinels their job is to kill mutants, and she had to sneak to do it, not nearly as many mutants would have died if they had a heads up. Wrecking havoc in Lilandras mind would be impressive if she had any power to fight back such an attack. She outed Xavier, oh no we better head for the hills. beast seems to be doing better now and his confidence was already ruined considering his mutation causes him to devolve and his girlfriend left him.

Let me sum it up, DP was a threat to every living thing in the universe, CN was tricked by 5 very young telepaths her threat ended even easier than Onslaught once they found out exactly what they were up against.

Originally posted by LordKaos
Saying what happened in his future means jack shit is the best you could come up with? you said Dp had no impact, i merely let you know that people were still talking about her over a thousand years in the future sounds like an impact to me.
So your saying that the shi'ar came to earth to kill all of the grey line had nothing to do with the Dark Phoenix? how did you put it "plea puh please"

you're OZT reference means jack shit, he was not the cause he was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back

Moira said they were both off the charts, meaning immeasurable, you have no idea who was the strongest, if we both light fires that are hotter than 10,000 degrees but our thermometers only go to 10,000 and it breaks who's to say which fire was hotter?

DP killed 5 billion this a test of strength not impact, you act like Cn killed the mutants she merely unleashed sentinels their job is to kill mutants, and she had to sneak to do it, not nearly as many mutants would have died if they had a heads up. Wrecking havoc in Lilandras mind would be impressive if she had any power to fight back such an attack. She outed Xavier, oh no we better head for the hills. beast seems to be doing better now and his confidence was already ruined considering his mutation causes him to devolve and his girlfriend left him.

Let me sum it up, DP was a threat to every living thing in the universe, CN was tricked by 5 very young telepaths her threat ended even easier than Onslaught once they found out exactly what they were up against.

Don't ****ing twist what I'm saying into what you want to hear. Yes, I read the bullshit comics where the Shi'ar come and finish off the Grey family. Boo hoo. I never said that didn't happen.

Did I ever say that Cassandra Nova was stronger than Dark Phoenix? No, I simply said that she caused more damage to the x-men and the mutants on earth. Yes, retard, learn to read. I did never say "Cassandra Nova is more powerful than Dark Phoenix"
I simply said that Cassandra Nova's actions had a bigger impact on Earth and the mutants on Earth than Dark Phoenix did. Cassandra Nova's actions were kept in secret, all they know is that a huge sentinel came and finished off Genosha. Few people know who was behind it.

Given the fact that Dark Phoenix ate up a sun in outer space, that a handful of people on earth have heard about giving her a spot in the history books. They must be full of shit, especially considering you have other big shots out there who have and do pose a bigger threat. Dark Phoenix was more powerful, but she didn't have a bigger impact.

Any proof that Dark Phoenix caused more harm to planet Earth than Cassandra Nova or Onslaught? No? Well then

you brought up the concept of who you made what impact, at first you talked about her making an impact on the xmen, now you want switch to and include all mutants and earth. I never implied you said she was more powerful because that would be ludicrous, more ludicrous than you reading what you want and trying to change this into a who made the biggest impact, or who caused the most destruction when the title of the thread only wants to know who is the strongest, so anything else you mentioned is moot. Retard!

You're absolutely right. 16 million mutants dying didn't have an impact on the x-men at all. Dark Phoenix eating a sun and killing a place they've never seen or been to, affected them so much more.

I never said CN didn't have an impact because it's irrelevant, you are the one who has tried to make the thread about impacts and destruction, and focusing on Dark Phoenix destroying a star system like she didn't do anything else, you imply that no matter what she did it did not have an impact on the X-men or other mutants, the xmen were profoundly impacted by one of their own going insane and trying to destroy everything. When did I say it affected them more? my reason for replying in the first place is that you think because she killed strangers that she had no impact on her lover, best friend, mentor and the rest of the X-men untrue. I pointed out what Cable said about DP in the future because obviously she made some kind of name for herself thousands of years in the future, CN didn't make it to history books as a cautionary tale to frighten young telepaths, you are also implying that I don't think much of what she did, but I'll say again this is about who is the strongest, you agreed it was Phoenix so this should be over.

Originally posted by LordKaos
I never said CN didn't have an impact because it's irrelevant, you are the one who has tried to make the thread about impacts and destruction, and focusing on Dark Phoenix destroying a star system like she didn't do anything else, you imply that no matter what she did it did not have an impact on the X-men or other mutants, the xmen were profoundly impacted by one of their own going insane and trying to destroy everything. When did I say it affected them more? my reason for replying in the first place is that you think because she killed strangers that she had no impact on her lover, best friend, mentor and the rest of the X-men untrue. I pointed out what Cable said about DP in the future because obviously she made some kind of name for herself thousands of years in the future, CN didn't make it to history books as a cautionary tale to frighten young telepaths, you are also implying that I don't think much of what she did, but I'll say again this is about who is the strongest, you agreed it was Phoenix so this should be over.

If you didn't want to prove that Dark Phoenix didn't have more of an impact then CN, then you had no reason for replying at all. Of course everyone knows that the Phoenix had an impact.

For the record, those telepaths must be retards. Phoenix only selects Omega class mutants as its host. Thus why the Shi'Ar shit their pants out of fear when Kid Omega was back.

P.S You don't think 16 million mutants dying would make the history book? Cassandra Nova will never, but the Mummudrai did make the shi'ar records 🙂

* Phoenix dwarfs Onslaught... Onslaught really is powerful but not in Phoenix's level... i think the hype was made on Onslaught due to the combined forces of most of the Marvel heroes and because the battle occurred on Earth... while the Phoenix battles occurred on another planet or galaxy, correct me if i'm wrong... 😉

Okay I will, Onslaught crushed Phoenix in his hand.

Well, Onslaught had reality manipulation.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Okay I will, Onslaught crushed Phoenix in his hand.

Nope. Onslaught created a visualization of the Force as a visual aid for his offer to Jean.

Can you show me where in either of these two official bios that the actual Phoenixes presence during that event is referenced?

Phoenix:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_%28Jean_Grey%29

Phoenix Force:

Surely being crushed into nothing within someones hand would warrant a mention in your bio? 😬

Find anything? 🙂

Why not? 😕

Visualization. 😎

Originally posted by llagrok
Well, Onslaught had reality manipulation.

Nope. Franklin Richards had reality manipulation. Onslaught had access to those powers while Franklin was in his possession. Without him he has the powers of Magneto and Xavier combined. They are his inherent powers, arguing that he had reality manipulation is like me arguing that Thanos has the inherent power to destroy the universe and defeat the abstracts and LT. Whats the flaw in that thinking? He could do those things only when in possession of an external source, in his case The Heart Of The Infinite. It was not something he could do as standard, not a feature of his inherent powerset.

Onslaught had telepathy and control of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Onslaught created a visualization of the Force as a visual aid for his offer to Jean.

Can you show me where in either of these two official bios that the actual Phoenixes presence during that event is referenced?

Phoenix:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_%28Jean_Grey%29

Phoenix Force:

Surely being crushed into nothing within someones hand would warrant a mention in your bio? 😬

Find anything? 🙂

Why not? 😕

Visualization. 😎

I don't think you get it, if I see a bus blow up on TV, I don't have to prove to the person next to me that it was a real bus.

In that issue Onslaught summons the phoenix and offers to restore it to jean, this is in keeping with your scans showing she did not have the power at that time, which is why Onslaught was offering. Jean rejects him and he crushes the Phoenix in anger. There is no on panel proof that it is not the real phoenix force.

Originally posted by Starhawk
I don't think you get it, if I see a bus blow up on TV, I don't have to prove to the person next to me that it was a real bus.

In that issue Onslaught summons the phoenix and offers to restore it to jean, this is in keeping with your scans showing she did not have the power at that time, which is why Onslaught was offering. Jean rejects him and he crushes the Phoenix in anger. There is no on panel proof that it is not the real phoenix force.

Ineffective analogy. 😬

Why? 😕

Your example takes place in the real world where we know we're dealing with actuality. The whole Onslaught and Jean scene took place on the astral plane where ALL you see are mental images conjured up the consciousness' of the living.

Onslaught wanted to show Jean how corrupt Xavier really was, what did she do in response? She visualized a picture of Xaviers head which then split into many sections while Jean and Onslaught flew into the middle where they got an insight into his innermost thoughts represented through mental imagery:

By your logic Xaviers head got peeled into sections like a banana and on the inside of his head is found not a skull and brain tissue but instead mini versions of him and the people in his life playing out scenes from his past and despite all that Xavier is alive and well to this day 🤨

So how do you explain that the SH?

After seeing what she does in Xaviers mind, Jean turns to Onslaught in horror and says "this isnt real, you created this".

Why? Because its possible for a telepath to visualize what they want in the astral plane. The astral plane is where all sentient minds in existence are connected and telepaths can navigate through it to locate other minds and to commune with each other and here they can also express their thoughts and desires via mental imagery.

Onslaught tried to recruit Jean by offering her power like she had when she wielded the Phoenix Force. Onslaught then visualized the Phoenix Force as a visual aid to better emphasize his words:

Given that:

a) They are in the astral plane where ALL is mental imagery conjured by the minds of the living

b) Nowhere in continuity, nowhere on panel, nowhere in the bios makes reference to the actual Phoenix Force being crushed by Onslaught(which one would presume to be important enoughh to warrant an entry)

You have no justification whatsoever for presenting the ridiculous argument that the Phoenix Force got crushed by Onslaught. 👇

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Onslaught tried to recruit Jean by offering her power like she had when she wielded the Phoenix Force. Onslaught then visualized the Phoenix Force as a visual aid to better emphasize his words:

Show me where he says it is only a visualization. Because given that we have on panel evidence, the burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Show me where he says it is only a visualization. Because given that we have on panel evidence, the burden of proof is on you.

The burden of proof is on you because on the astral plane all we see is mental imagery conjured by the minds of the sentient.

Nowhere is it stated that that is the Phoenix Force and in light of that first point and the fact nowhere in continuity is that stated to be the Phoenix Force, nowhere in the bios is such an event referenced, once again the burden of proof is on you.

You've lost. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The burden of proof is on you because on the astral plane all we see is mental imagery conjured by the minds of the sentient.

Nowhere is it stated that that is the Phoenix Force and in light of that first point and the fact nowhere in continuity is that stated to be the Phoenix Force, nowhere in the bios is such an event referenced, once again the burden of proof is on you.

You've lost. 😬

No I haven't your argument is based on supposition and opinion, mine is based on what happened in the comic. Facts over opinion.

Originally posted by Starhawk
No I haven't your argument is based on supposition and opinion, mine is based on what happened in the comic. Facts over opinion.

Nope. Mine is based on established points of continuity i.e the astral plane is a place where telepaths can commune and express their thoughts and desires through mental imagery, the Phoenix Force was not posessed by Jean Grey at the time, the actual Phoenix Force wasnt seen on panel again until the New X-men series in the 00's.

Your argument however is based SOLELY on the art and ignores not only established continuity but most importantly the context of the scene i.e where it took place, what was happening at the time.

Thats enough.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Mine is based on established points of continuity i.e the astral plane is a place where telepaths can commune and express their thoughts and desires through mental imagery, the Phoenix Force was not posessed by Jean Grey at the time, the actual Phoenix Force wasnt seen on panel again until the New X-men series in the 00's.

Your argument however is based SOLELY on the art and ignores not only established continuity but most importantly the context of the scene i.e where it took place, what was happening at the time.

Thats enough.

No I go by on panel evidence and not opinion and half guesses like you do.

Originally posted by Starhawk
No I go by on panel evidence and not opinion and half guesses like you do.

On panel evidence involves more than just the art im afraid to tell you, it also involves the captions, the speech and the story going on in said comic. When all of those things are taken into consideration a standalone piece of art can take on an entirely different meaning.

Please understand that. 🙂