Darth Maul vs. Bastilla

Started by xxXAcStylesXxx7 pages
Originally posted by Sexyback
Maul is overrated in lightsaber combat, he's pretty whack in TPM, sure he can do some nice acrobatics, but he leaves himself open and is too reckless. Bastilla has far more experience than he does against lightsaber users, she was stated to be a saber prodigy by the masters at Dantooine, she's much stronger in the force which is a [b]huge factor in lightsaber fights, she was one of the best in one of the most martial periods ever, I'd say it can be deduced that she's above Maul in lightsaber combat, but that's irrelevant really, as she pwns him with the force. Bastilla easily has this. [/B]

Do tell sock, where is this quote that says Bastila is a saber prodigy? Do tell sock, where this quote is that says Bastila has "LEET" saber skills. Do tell sock, where its said Bastila was one of the best, when she even admits that she's not the hot shit she lets on to be. Do tell sock, where it says Padawan Bastila was stronger then Master Lucien Draay and the Covenant, The Dantooine council, the Coruscant council, Vima Sunrider, Nomi Sunrider, Master Thon, Tott, and all the other Jedi during KOTOR. Your a liar.

Vandar stated in Dantooine, 'Ah, I see you have met padawan Bastilla, a rising star in the jedi ranks, prodigous both with the force and the saber'. BTW, I'm loving your tactic which makes it seem like you're responding to four points when you're only responding to two, I commend you.

BTW, you downgrade Maul's swordsmanship here, yet in the Vader vs. Tyranus thread, you treat Maul as a god of a swordsman to suit your own wicked purposes.

HAHAHA pwnt again

In comparison to clumsy old Vader, he is a God.

Man, you are like the biggest Anti-Fanboy of Vader, aren't you?

Why yes I am, and it's because he sucks.

No way Maul loses this.

He is faster, stronger, smarter, more skilled, and trained, by Sidious, to be a Jedi killer. Bastilla is a Padawan, she isn't great. Maul tooled Qui Gon, you know, Dooku's apprentice? Said to be on par with Mace Windu as of The Phantom Menace? The best duelist Obi Wan had ever seen? Yeah, Maul beat him down, after he had meditated, in thirty seconds flat.

Source anything that shows Bastilla is even close to Maul with the force or with a saber. I've seen a lot of claims, with no backing them up. From the Ultimate Visual Guide:

"...Mighella, a highly trained bodyguard, who is also a witch of Dathomir, or Nightsister. Like all Nightsisters, she is skilled in the use of the dark side of the force. Mighella attempts [and fails miserably] to use an energised sword to stop Darth Maul, then surprises him with a burst of force lightning.
The moment after Mighella realises her opponent is a Sith Lord, with far superior dark side knowledge, she is felled by a lethal slash of Maul's lightsaber."

Page 33.

I'm not too sure. We haven't seen much to gauge her skill and prowess with a Lightsaber.

Yeah, I'd like to know where the ridiculous theory that Bastilla is so much greater than Maul originated. The TPM visual guide makes it quite clear that Maul was "one of the most deadly Sith apprentices in history". This guy was trained to be the ultimate weapon - imbued with hatred and an outrageous amount of discipline in physical combat.

So, let's break it down for those who disagree. Maul is stronger than Bastilla (by a lot). Maul is faster than Bastilla (by a lot). Maul is more agile than Bastilla (by a lot). Maul is far more versed in physical combat and martial arts than Bastilla. She doesn't have a ghost of a prayer against him in physical combat. Maul manhandled Qui-Gon Jinn (a Jedi trained by Count Dooku, on par with Mace - who is above and beyond Bastilla) and Obi-Wan at the same time (and it is suggested that he was even toying with them, as Shadow Hunter reveals that he had a habit of doing). He also faced Anoon Bondara in combat, an extremely gifted lightsaber instructor whom Qui-Gon considered to be on par with any of the Council (including Yoda - who Bastilla wouldn't even so much as trouble in a duel). Bondara knew that he was outclassed by Maul, and thought that it was only a matter of time before Maul killed him - which he did.

Combined with the quotes from the visual guide that Jollyjim provided, Mighella was powerful - and her attack was one of surprise - and yet Maul's strength and stamina withstood her intense lightning attack (he wasn't even prepared for it), and then he butchered her right after she realized his skill was much more than hers.

What's Bastilla got going for her?

Oh, yeah. She almost faced Revan in combat, and got tortured to the dark side by Malak.

Yeah. Like that measures up. Maul pwns her.

No way Maul loses this.

O RLY?

He is faster, stronger, smarter, more skilled,

Proof?

and trained, by Sidious, to be a Jedi killer.

Which sith isn't trained to be a jedi killer? 😛
Anyways, I'm pretty sure Darth Sidious held him back if anything. He taught him like nothing of the darkside, Bastilla has extensive training both in the lightside and darkside.

Bastilla is a Padawan, she isn't great.

Excuse me? She was a force and saber prodigy, a rising star in the jedi ranks, and I'm pretty sure she was promoted to a knight just before she began her adventure with Revan. Also, need I remind you that Maul was defeated by a padawan?

Maul tooled Qui Gon, you know, Dooku's apprentice?

This is great and all, but Bastilla has faced far more and actually survived. Given how martial the KotOR time period was, how many jedi/sith action there was, and how many dark jedi Revan, Bastilla and co faced, it can be deduced that she faced many. Even canonically, given the small amount we know, she has more kills under her belt than Maul does.

Maul killed only five force users in his time, only three of which used lightsabers, before getting killed by a padawan. Hell, Kenobi was even able to outduel him once using the darkside, and Darth Maul had to use a force push to save himself from Obi-Wan's onslaught.

Said to be on par with Mace Windu as of The Phantom Menace?

Exactly, as of The Phantom Menace, years before Mace actually got relatively powerful.

The best duelist Obi Wan had ever seen?

Obi-Wan is his apprentice, he's naturally going to be a tad bit biased, and the fact is, he was only a padawan, he hadn't seen that much.

Yeah, Maul beat him down, after he had meditated, in thirty seconds flat.

That's real great and all, but you're only focusing on his good aspects. Did you forget how padawan Kenobi was able to flip over him, pull his lightsaber towards him, and slice him up before he could do jack to defend himself? Pretty sloppy reflexes, I'd say.

And need I remind you how Bastilla was shown to toy with and defeat a dark jedi in seconds (in Revan's vision, aboard his ship), and it can be assumed that this dark jedi was pretty skilled given the fact that he was accompanying Darth Revan, and Bastilla just pwned him in seconds, and this was quite a bit of time before KotOR.

Source anything that shows Bastilla is even close to Maul with the force or with a saber. I've seen a lot of claims, with no backing them up.

1. Being labelled as a force prodigy.
2. Instantly being able to stun Jolee Bindo and Juhani on the spot.
3. The extent of her battle meditation.

there's more, that's just off the top of my head

From the Ultimate Visual Guide:

"...Mighella, a highly trained bodyguard, who is also a witch of Dathomir, or Nightsister. Like all Nightsisters, she is skilled in the use of the dark side of the force. Mighella attempts [and fails miserably] to use an energised sword to stop Darth Maul, then surprises him with a burst of force lightning.
The moment after Mighella realises her opponent is a Sith Lord, with far superior dark side knowledge, she is felled by a lethal slash of Maul's lightsaber."

Page 33.

Who isn't labelled as 'skilled', or 'strong in the force' in the SW universe? When it's said about a gazillion times, it's no longer considered that great in the big picture. The fact is, if she was anything special, Darth Sidious would have tried to recruit her, she wouldn't serve as a simple bodyguard, now please, Bastilla is far stronger in the force than she is, there's no reason to assume she wouldn't be able to do the same, except with more effect. Maul just can't win this.

Okay, all quotes and references are from the Ultimate visual Guide. Maul wins this.

Maul is a beast. He is "An almost unstoppable weapon." He had "Constant training to become stronger, faster, and smarter than any adversary could anticipate." Maul "Masters the lightsaber and practices martial arts and marksmanship." He "Survives a month against a legion of assassin droids." During his duel with Sidious, he "Opens himself up to the darkside and becomes a true Sith Lord." Maul is also a master of Teras Kasi, the ultimate martial arts style, and incorporates his style and attacks into his lightsaber techniques.

Not enough? I think it is, but, if you want to be stubborn:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=009
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=010
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=011
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=012
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=013
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=041
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=042
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=043
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=044
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=045
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=051 (look at the bodies)
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=064
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=066
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=067
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=068
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=069
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=073 (Those are Vigos, more than average punks, some of the deadliest people around, only 7 in the galaxy.)
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=074
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=075
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=076
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=077
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=079
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=080
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=084
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=085
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=086
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=087
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=091

Planet, "Bastilla had extensive training in the lightside and dark side"? I do hope that you're not referring to Bastilla's tenure as Malak's apprentice. Like that even registers next to Maul's twenty six years as a Sith Lord.

It was enough time for her to learn force lightning, Maul didn't even know that, Sidious clearly trained him to be nothing more than a swordsman.

Originally posted by Sexyback
It was enough time for her to learn force lightning, Maul didn't even know that, Sidious clearly trained him to be nothing more than a swordsman.

Has it been confirmed that Maul didn't know Force lightning? Or, are we assuming as such because he hasn't been depicted performing it - and relied primarily on his skills with a lightsaber and martial arts prowess. Considering the multiple, multiple accounts we have had of neophytes using and commanding Force lightning, I'll be pretty damn shocked (no pun intended) if a twenty-six year old Sith Lord, called "the ultimate weapon" didn't have skills in it.

Bastilla didn't have any long amount of time under Malak. Maul did. Even implying that she learned more is idiocy at its finest.

Given how much source material there is on Darth Maul, and the fact that there have been plenty of occasions where using it would actually be beneficial, the fact that he has never displayed it means it's more likely that he never knew it. Really, it's quite clear that Sidious held him back in dark side knowledge.

Well, he has "Far superior dark side knowledge" compared to someone who has lightning. Weather he can use it or not, it doesn't really matter.

Given how much source material there is on Darth Maul, and the fact that there have been plenty of occasions where using it would actually be beneficial, the fact that he has never displayed it means it's more likely that he never knew it.

Plenty occasions where using it would actually be beneficial? 99% of the time, he manhandled all of his opponents with his lightsaber. I'm not saying that he was a master practitioner of the Force - but it is clear that he relied more on his physical prowess and talents with a lightsaber as opposed to anything else. It is completely ridiculous to assume that a Sith Lord trained to be the "ultimate weapon" as well as "one of the most deadly Sith apprentices in history". Hell, Jollyjim just proved that Maul's knowledge of the dark side far exceeding Mighella's, who was capable of utilizing Force lightning. If anything, it is quite obvious that he had knowledge of it.

Really, it's quite clear that Sidious held him back in dark side knowledge.

Why would he? Sidious had no qualms about teaching Count Dooku a lot of dark side secrets. Especially when you think about it: Sidious would have no reason not to train Maul. Maul had zero ambition to kill Sidious. Zero. None. Dooku was a strong-willed, ambitious thinker and political visionary - and Sidious wasn't afraid of obviously teaching him Force lightning. Especially when Maul, even moreso than Dooku, was trained to be a fighter and warrior. I think that your assertion is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Vandar stated in Dantooine, 'Ah, I see you have met padawan Bastilla, a rising star in the jedi ranks, prodigious both with the force and the saber'. BTW, I'm loving your tactic which makes it seem like you're responding to four points when you're only responding to two, I commend you.

I remember the first part but not the second, and I've played KOTOR NUMEROUS times, I've seen just about every piece of dialog and I don't remember that, till someone else substantiates this I won't believe it.

And really if it was true...so what. She's a padawan, how damn prodigious can a Padawan be, if this was the case she'd be a Knight, if this was the case she'd wouldn't have needed Revan, if this was the case she wouldn't have admitted her own weakness.

Yeah, she needed her ass saved from some common thugs on Taris.