darth revan and darth traya vs darth vader and darth sidious

You don't understand; the reference is obviously not "combat-related" power. It's not the strength of a Force user during a fight, otherwise Anakin Solo (the child) would have been a complete nonfactor during the fight - he wasn't even born, so his combat abilities would obviously be nonexistent.

It has been implied throughout the entire continuity (and makes complete sense) that Leia's strength in the Force equals that of her brother. Hence why Vader said in RotJ that he would use her if necessary. The obvious difference is: Luke is far more experienced and more trained than she is. But her raw strength in the Force is quite likely to be equal to Luke's own.

Anakin Solo's strength (from what we saw before his death) was extremely proficient as well, though I don't know if I'd put him on par with Luke or Leia in terms of raw Force talent.

There's nothing to indicate that Revan's strength in the Force comes close to Luke's own. And if it does, that means he just has 1/3 of the power necessary to strip Sidious from the Force and defeat him.

Revan doesn't have the raw power to tackle that.

Originally posted by Gideon
Power, in the case of those who attacked Sidious, can almost obviously be indicated as "potential" or "connection" to the Force. Afterall, it would make zero sense for an unborn baby to possess any combat skill or power.

So, that'd be the Force connection of three Skywalkers. A single Skywalker has a superior connection to the Force than any other Force user.

And it took three of them to bring Sidious down. Yeah, why am I thinking that that's quite a lot of power?

Power that Revan sure as hell doesn't have.

Originally posted by darthpayne
Revan my not be as powerful forsewise but in lightsaber combat I think Revan has the advantidge but it would be a good fight

Dude, what's Revan shown us? We have second hand accounts of his skill. I don't doubt that the guy was good - or, indeed - one of the best. But you can't sit here and say "he's as good as Luke or better than Sidious", when we don't have anything to base such conclusions off of.

Which is the problem when arguing for/against Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
You don't understand; the reference is obviously not "combat-related" power. It's not the strength of a Force user during a fight, otherwise Anakin Solo (the child) would have been a complete [B]nonfactor during the fight - he wasn't even born, so his combat abilities would obviously be nonexistent.

It has been implied throughout the entire continuity (and makes complete sense) that Leia's strength in the Force equals that of her brother. Hence why Vader said in RotJ that he would use her if necessary. The obvious difference is: Luke is far more experienced and more trained than she is. But her raw strength in the Force is quite likely to be equal to Luke's own.

Anakin Solo's strength (from what we saw before his death) was extremely proficient as well, though I don't know if I'd put him on par with Luke or Leia in terms of raw Force talent.

There's nothing to indicate that Revan's strength in the Force comes close to Luke's own. And if it does, that means he just has 1/3 of the power necessary to strip Sidious from the Force and defeat him.

Revan doesn't have the raw power to tackle that. [/B]

Also, Revan and Traya combined will over-power Sidious. Traya's instakill ability is more effective then Leia and her unborn child in combat scenarios.

Originally posted by Gideon
Dude, what's Revan shown us? We have second hand accounts of his skill. I don't doubt that the guy was good - or, indeed - one of the best. But you can't sit here and say "he's as good as Luke or better than Sidious", when we don't have anything to base such conclusions off of.

Which is the problem when arguing for/against Revan.

Yeah i guess your right but he did deafeat Mandalore the ultamte in single combat but you could use the same argument for Mandalore to cuz we dont know how strong he really was either

Originally posted by Gideon
Dude, what's Revan shown us? We have second hand accounts of his skill. I don't doubt that the guy was good - or, indeed - one of the best. But you can't sit here and say "he's as good as Luke or better than Sidious", when we don't have anything to base such conclusions off of.

Which is the problem when arguing for/against Revan.

He is known to kill the most powerful Mandalorian (Mandalore - The Ultimate), who was kicking @ss, until Revan challenged him.

He also killed Yusanis, who was the greatest Echani warrior ever known. Echani warriors have very strong precognition abilities, but Revan destroyed the best of them.

Then Malak was also a master swordsman in KOTOR period. He was the second best after Revan in Light Saber Combat and was finally defeated on SF by Revan in proper "pupil vs student" match.

Revan's fighting skills are not unknown and should not be questioned.

You made some valid points but Anakin Solo's power is no where near them because Anakin's dad was a Non-Force Sensitive.

Neither were Luke or Leia's... but, hell, Anakin (Skywalker) thought Luke's own potential rivaled his. So, if Anakin is behind, he's not behind by a large amount. And, hey, his connection to the Force seems to exceed Revan's alone. So, again, that's three times the power that Revan needs.

Also, Revan and Traya combined will over-power Sidious. Traya's instakill ability is more effective then Leia and her unborn child in combat scenarios.

If it will even work on Sidious. Dooku's accounts of Sidious in RotS and in Dark Rendezvous pretty much imply that he's somewhat of a wound in the Force himself. Given that he blunted the Jedi's ability to use the Force throughout the PT would imply this.

Originally posted by darthpayne
Yeah i guess your right but he did deafeat Mandalore the ultamte in single combat but you could use that argument for Mandalore to cuz we dont know how strong he really was

Revan actually gained incredible fame from Mandalorians after he defeated Mandalore The Utimate in single combat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sorry! we have some good accounts on Revan's skill in Light Saber Combat.

He is known to kill the most powerful Mandalorian (Mandalore - The Ultimate), who was kicking @ss, until Revan challenged him.

He is also killed Yusanis, who was the greatest Echani warrior ever known. Echani warriors have very strong precognition abilities, but Revan destoyed the best of them.

Then Malak was also a master swordsman in KOTOR period. He was the second best after Revan in Light Saber Combat and was finally defeated on SF by Revan in proper "pupil vs student" match.

Revan's fighting skills are not unknown and should not be questioned.

Sorry! Where the hell does that put him in comparison to the movie guys, or Luke?

You can't say. A lot of people here (including myself) think that Dooku could comfortably beat Malak. We also think that Maul would tool Bastilla. So, what's that make Revan?

Originally posted by Gideon
[B]Neither were Luke or Leia's... but, hell, Anakin (Skywalker) thought Luke's own potential rivaled his. So, if Anakin is behind, he's not behind by a large amount. And, hey, his connection to the Force seems to exceed Revan's alone. So, again, that's three times the power that Revan needs.

Han Solo is not like Anakin. And Leia is indeed Force Sensitive but not as strong as her father was. Luke has edge because of better tranining though.

Originally posted by Gideon
If it will even work on Sidious. Dooku's accounts of Sidious in RotS and in Dark Rendezvous pretty much imply that he's somewhat of a wound in the Force himself. Given that he blunted the Jedi's ability to use the Force throughout the PT would imply this.

Only Exile and Nihilus are exceptions in this case.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sorry! Where the hell does that put him in comparison to the movie guys, or Luke?

You can't say. A lot of people here (including myself) think that Dooku could comfortably beat Malak. We also think that Maul would tool Bastilla. So, what's that make Revan?

Still Anakin Skywalker was soaked in Force, like no other individual before. Padme was also not very weak in the Force.

Um... Padme hasn't shown any Force skills. If she had anything worth registering, she'd have been recruited by the Jedi. It's safe to say that she didn't have a good amount of midichlorians in her.

Han Solo is not like Anakin. And Leia is indeed Force Sensitive but not as strong as her father was. Luke has edge because of better tranining though.

Again: if Luke's potential rivaled that of his father, Leia's would conceivably be the same. Han Solo had about the same amount of Force ability that Padme had. Anakin's strength with the Force likely wasn't as much as his mother or uncle, but it wasn't diminished by a considerable amount.

Of-course! Sidious won't be killed instantly even by instakill power but it will surely weaken him a lot. And Sidious was never wound in the Force.

I never said that he was. I said that the novelization and a few other sources imply as much.

Only Exile and Nihilus are exceptions in this case.

And Sidious may very well be among their number.

Originally posted by darthpayne
Correct me if i am wrong but didn;t Reavan find Tulak Hords Holocron who was said to be the best lightsabar duelist of his time and back then they where about double in skill then in revans time

Like I said: I'm not doubting that the guy had skill. But who is to say that his skills - even at the end of the training - rivaled Tulak's?

Edit: We'll finish this tomorrow. Night.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sorry! Where the hell does that put him in comparison to the movie guys, or Luke?

You can't say. A lot of people here (including myself) think that Dooku could comfortably beat Malak. We also think that Maul would tool Bastilla. So, what's that make Revan?

Revan killed Malak in a titanic duel (as revealed in Star Wars official blogs). Malak was far more powerful then Dooku on Star Forge.

Malak has shown more Force moves then Dooku have actually. Malak > Dooku.

Originally posted by Gideon
Like I said: I'm not doubting that the guy had skill. But who is to say that his skills - even at the end of the training - rivaled Tulak's?

Edit: We'll finish this tomorrow. Night.

Originally posted by Gideon
[B]Um... Padme hasn't shown any Force skills. If she had anything worth registering, she'd have been recruited by the Jedi. It's safe to say that she didn't have a good amount of midichlorians in her.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again: if Luke's potential rivaled that of his father, Leia's would conceivably be the same. Han Solo had about the same amount of Force ability that Padme had. Anakin's strength with the Force likely wasn't as much as his mother or uncle, but it wasn't diminished by a considerable amount.

Originally posted by Gideon
I never said that he was. I said that the novelization and a few other sources imply as much.

Originally posted by Gideon
And Sidious may very well be among their number.

Originally posted by Gideon
Like I said: I'm not doubting that the guy had skill. But who is to say that his skills - even at the end of the training - rivaled Tulak's?

Edit: We'll finish this tomorrow. Night.

But Revan did have to fight his way through dozens of sith, sith solidgers and star forge battle droids which where said to be a match for a normal jedi so i would say he had quite a bit of power

Thats redeemed jedi who was even stronger than sith revan,

Btw is revan a chick? If revan is then she wins

Vader can hang with Traya as far as force powers go, and crush her in lightsaber combat with one, maybe two swings.

Sidious is more powerful than Revan, or any other Sith.

They win this.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Thats redeemed jedi who was even stronger than sith revan,

Btw is revan a chick? If revan is then she wins

No revans a guy