Originally posted by Galan007
So now we are comparing Phoenix's power to the power of TOAA?🙄
Its not the power of TOAA. Once and for all it was a vast power source found within the END reality. Thanos claimed it to be the power of the supreme being and speculated on his acquisition of this power being part of some plan of the supreme beings.
Thanos speculated the same thing about the cosmic cubes and the IG and those theories were found to be very false.
No other wielders of the power claimed it to be TOAA's. The bio of Akhenaten from earlier this year doesnt state it to be TOAA's power. That was just what Thanos equated it to after he came into a vast power, more powerful than the forces he had acquired previously. It isnt canon.
Feats wise, Thanos with HOTI beat down the abstracts as the IG did, beat down LT's Mbody as Reed Richards did with one of his inventions and he absorbed the END reality, a feat many cosmic beings are by continuity capable of. The Hunger for example, the Phoenix has done so to other realities.
Feats wise Phoenix has it beat. In terms of presentation, how both powers are generally talked about, HOTI seemed in that mini to be represented and generally perceived in a higher regard than most Phoenix appearances. Although it could be argued that the White Hot Room scene where universe are nothing but specks to the avatars, specks which can be manipulated like putty is a similarly nigh omnipotent representation.
In the end its all just down to theory. But once again feats wise, Phoenix has it beat.
Originally posted by GalacticStormReed simply knocked an unsuspecting LT back a bit, thats all.
Yep. Its a valid LT appearance, regardless if you didnt think much of the mini itself. It still stands. It happened to LT. Or at least one of his Mbodys.
It's an impressive feat don't get me wrong, but he in no way "beat down" LT in the same degree that Thanos did...
and the arch was non-cannon anyway.
Originally posted by Xplosive
No matter how much I like PF, anyone with HOTI takes this.
Fair enough. Cos i cant make a conclusive case for Phoenix winning. Not against something with the showings of HOTI. However in light of the fact that it didnt do anything on panel other cosmics, or Reed Richards inventions have shown to be able to do, Phoenix has an arguably higher feat.
However unlike the IG where i can dismiss it because of its power source(the Big Bang) and lower showings, i just cant do the same with the HOTI because its power source is undetermined and while Phoenix has it pipped in terms of a power display, i just cant argue conclusively that Phoenix would win.
Its a toss up. This is the kind of opposition, Phoenix should be struggling against. Not Galactus, Eternity and the IG 😬
Originally posted by Galan007
Reed simply knocked an unsuspecting LT back a bit, thats all. He in no way "beat down" LT...and the arch was non-cannon anyway.
Canon is a certain set of rules specific to a certain label. 616 has a certain set of rules, the Ultimate Universe has theirs, as does the New Universe for example.
There is only one LT who is the same being who features in all of those realities. Therefore the canon argument doesnt apply to him. LT isnt a 616 character who appeared in Last Standing, so the point is moot.
According to the writer those cosmics were destroyed and when fans complained he said it was an LT Mbody.
Originally posted by GalacticStormRegardless, Reed has NEVER "beat down" LT as you said he did.
Canon is a certain set of rules specific to a certain label. 616 has a certain set of rules, the Ultimate Universe has theirs, as does the New Universe for example.There is only one LT who is the same being who features in all of those realities. Therefore the canon argument doesnt apply to him. LT isnt a 616 character who appeared in Last Standing, so the point is moot.
According to the writer those cosmics were destroyed and when fans complained he said it was an LT Mbody.
Knocking LT back a little bit is impressive for a human, but it hardly warrants the title of a "beat down".
Originally posted by Galan007
Regardless, Reed has NEVER "beat down" LT as you said he did.Knocking LT back a little bit is impressive for a human, but it hardly warrants the title of a "beat down".
That Mbody was destroyed. All of those cosmics were destroyed, hence the writer claiming it was an Mbody. Thats why Thanos disposing of LT's mbody isnt something previously unheard of.
Originally posted by Galan007
Where did you get that they were destroyed?
The fact that they were hellbent on stopping Galactus
They had their power turned back on them were blown back before being consumed by said power on panel.
Happened in issue 3.
Never seen again in the 5 issue series.
Defalco released a statement to appease fans who came to the same very understandable conclusion.
LT uses Mbodys. It was an Mbody.
Thats kinda how i got it. 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStormYou were just saying that we dont know for sure that THOTI is TOAA's power because it wasn't specifically stated on pannel.
The fact that they were hellbent on stopping GalactusThey had their power turned back on them were blown back before being consumed by said power on panel.
Happened in issue 3.
Never seen again in the 5 issue series.
Defalco released a statement to appease fans who came to the same very understandable conclusion.
LT uses Mbodys. It was an Mbody.
Thats kinda how i got it. 😕
Yet even though its not stated that LT was destroyed by Reed's machine, we can all of the sudden go to the bank on it? 😕
Sorry, but to me, nothing would suggest that LT was destroyed.
Originally posted by Galan007
You were just saying that we dont know for sure that THOTI is TOAA's power because it wasn't specifically stated on pannel.Yet even though its not stated that LT was destroyed by Reed's machine, we can all of the sudden go to the bank on it? 😕
Sorry, but to me, nothing would suggest that LT was destroyed.
Ive just scrutinized the Last Planet Standing issue and Reed does indeed say the device would hurl the victim endlessly through reality. So that is what happened to LT's Mbody, youre right he wasnt destroyed as id first thought, so yeah thats cool i concede on that point, but he was defeated and taken out of the picture, or at least that Mbody was.
With that in mind my point still stands. LT can have his power turned against him. He can be defeated. Its been done by Reed Richards and his invention. Thanos admittedly did go further by actually absorbing this Mbody. However given the HOTI's other feats werent anything out of the ordinary and given just how much of an ownage just Reed laid on LT. That doesnt paint a picture of a HOTI that is without a doubt greater than Phoenix.
Originally posted by GalacticStormCool enough, but LT was far from destroyed.
Ive just scrutinized the Last Planet Standing issue and Reed does indeed say the device would hurl the victim endlessly through reality. So that is what happened to LT's Mbody, youre right he wasnt destroyed as id first thought, so yeah thats cool i concede on that point, but he was defeated and taken out of the picture, or at least that Mbody was.
Originally posted by GalacticStormReed isn't just some normal human, I mean look what he did with the UN, so I wouldn't say its a poor showing on LT's part.
With that in mind my point still stands. LT can have his power turned against him. He can be defeated. Its been done by Reed Richards and his invention. Thanos admittedly did go further by actually absorbing this Mbody. However given the HOTI's other feats werent anything out of the ordinary and given just how much of an ownage just Reed laid on LT. That doesnt paint a picture of a HOTI that is without a doubt greater than Phoenix.
Also I don't see Phoenix resisting THOTU as long as LT was able to.
Either way it's my oppinion that:
THOTU>Phoenix
