Smarts or PIS

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap has also been discribed as being enhanced human. Even if he was peak human how do you know that human beings cant dodge bullets if they were at peak potential, do you know what the limit of human potential is? So eventhoug he said that he can see bullets its PIS? So is Mantis knocking out Thor PIS eventhough it states in her profile in black and white that she can evenhough she has a human strength level.

I know its not the most viable source, but in The Watchmen, Alan Moore proposes that at Human peak potential we may even be able to catch bullets, as done by Ozymandias. Who is this Mantis you keep going on about ?

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I know its not the most viable source, but in The Watchmen, Alan Moore proposes that at Human peak potential we may even be able to catch bullets, as done by Ozymandias. Who is this Mantis you keep going on about ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Powers

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no. Mantis has learnt how to knock out Thor.....she is still human......Moondragon learnt how to have psionic powers....do the math. If Cap is human he has the SS serum and trains how is it impossible for him to dodge bullets when you have other humans who have learnt how to fly.

Alot of Caps powers come from learnt knowledge.

A human can not “learn” how to think faster then a computer, it is not possible for the human brain to think faster then a computer and he would need that kind of processing speed and ability to see and react to a bullet after being fired, PERIOD. He has superb reflexes and reaction time compared to any human so he can see where the bad guy is pointing the gun and when he is pulling the trigger and moves from the direction of the gun but if he hasn’t moved from that spot once fired he would be hit.

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Powers

She's very like Oszymandias from Watchmen.

Originally posted by ThePittman
You don’t seem to get it, I don’t know much about Mantis but if they are human they couldn’t knock out Thor without MAJOR PIS. There is a difference, a big difference between learning something such as doing magic, building robots or what ever and physical abilities. In the MU, you can not “learn” how to fly unless you have a mutant ability so that doesn’t even come into play here.

I hasten to guess that every human Esq superhero, has a weak spot of sorts. Its a intrinsic rule of Entropy that nothing can be perfect, even so called Gods. Been able to expose and penetrate pressure points and weak spots, is not a Super power as such, but provides and adequate explanation for how people like cap can take down the likes of Iron man and the Thing. the same goes for Mantis.

Originally posted by ThePittman
A human can not “learn” how to think faster then a computer, it is not possible for the human brain to think faster then a computer and he would need that kind of processing speed and ability to see and react to a bullet after being fired, PERIOD.

How do you know what human consciousness is not capable of potentially?. It perplexes scientists, philosophers and psychologists through out the world how much the brain seems to almost transcend reality and time. Sportsmen have displayed a weird trait known as 'being in the zone' which allows them to view and slow down events that would be usually impossible to see. Imagine if this ability was enhanced to the Nth degree, as it has been with Cap.

Originally posted by ThePittman
You don’t seem to get it, I don’t know much about Mantis but if they are human they couldn’t knock out Thor without MAJOR PIS.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Mantis

Abilities
Through training with the Priests of Pama, Mantis attained "complete control" over her body, achieving peak human agility, the ability to accelerate her recuperative powers through force of will, and an empathic nature enabling her to sense the emotions of others as "psychic vibrations." Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

Originally posted by ThePittman

There is a difference, a big difference between learning something such as doing magic, building robots or what ever and physical abilities.

Why does there have to be? Dr Doom can build a time travel machine. Can anybody build anything like a time travel machine in the real world? So Doom can build time travel machines but cap cant dodge bullets and yes he can dodge bullets in mid-flight. According to your logic Doom should not be able to build a time machine.

Originally posted by ThePittman
In the MU, you can not “learn” how to fly unless you have a mutant ability so that doesn’t even come into play here.

Oh really then whats this then:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Moondragon

Moondragon

Powers
Moondragon's psionic powers include telepathy, mind control, personality alteration, memory modification, illusion casting, levitation and force blasts.

Heather was raised by Titan's Shao-Lom monks, whose TUTELAGE (no genetic manipulation) awakened her latent psionic powers while helping her achieve physical and intellectual perfection.

Originally posted by ThePittman

and he would need that kind of processing speed and ability to see and react to a bullet after being fired, PERIOD. He has superb reflexes and reaction time compared to any human so he can see where the bad guy is pointing the gun and when he is pulling the trigger and moves from the direction of the gun but if he hasn’t moved from that spot once fired he would be hit.

Well I have given you examples of humasn who ahve learnt how to ahve super powers. IF you can accept that Dr Doom can learn how to build time machines but you dont want to accept that Cap can train to a level that he can dodge bullets that is illogical.

No it is not illogical, you reasoning is. With Moondragon she has learned an ability of Psionic which allows her to access these abilities, Cap hasn’t. The only abilities that Cap has access to are psychical abilities, nothing meta-physical or mystical. She has learned something that allows her to access these gifts so that would fall into the rage of the meta-physical not physical; here physical description is still peak human.

The ability to learn and understand time and create a machine that will travel through time is not limited to human limitations, you can learn and remember the entire library if you wanted to but you still think at the same speed.

Originally posted by ThePittman
No it is not illogical, you reasoning is. With Moondragon she has learned an ability of Psionic which allows her to access these abilities, Cap hasn’t. The only abilities that Cap has access to are psychical abilities, nothing meta-physical or mystical. She has learned something that allows her to access these gifts so that would fall into the rage of the meta-physical not physical; here physical description is still peak human.

[i]How do you know what human consciousness is not capable of potentially?. It perplexes scientists, philosophers and psychologists through out the world how much the brain seems to almost transcend reality and time. Sportsmen have displayed a weird trait known as 'being in the zone' which allows them to view and slow down events that would be usually impossible to see. Imagine if this ability was enhanced to the Nth degree, as it has been with Cap.[/B]

Originally posted by ThePittman
No it is not illogical, you reasoning is.

No it isnt, you are picking and choosing your logic to suit your arguement.

Originally posted by ThePittman

With Moondragon she has learned an ability of Psionic which allows her to access these abilities, Cap hasn’t.

Yeah but earlier on you were telling me that you had to be a mutant to have these abilities, no you're telling me its ok. Whats going on?

Originally posted by ThePittman

The only abilities that Cap has access to are psychical abilities, nothing meta-physical or mystical. She has learned something that allows her to access these gifts so that would fall into the rage of the meta-physical not physical; here physical description is still peak human.

You're missing the point. Both Moondragon and Cap are human they both have skills. and both of them ahve learnt do things that human beings cant do in the real world. Moondragons skills come from meditation is it clear cut in the real world that meditation can give you powers??? So human beings cant leviatate in the real world but you're ok that she can in the comic, but when cap learns to dodge bullets its PIS.

Originally posted by ThePittman

The ability to learn and understand time and create a machine that will travel through time is not limited to human limitations, you can learn and remember the entire library if you wanted to but you still think at the same speed.

So let me get this straight right, building a time machine is not PIS but dodging bullets is?

The “zone” doesn’t mean diddly squat, this is a description of someone that is doing really good at what they have been trained to do and many factors come into play. Yes people have done some amazing stuff that “seems” to deify logic but you are talking about someone seeing something that is traveling from 600 to 1200 ft/s, the human brain process information around 30 m/s. All the descriptions that you have given are all relative and not based on any proven fact, people can not see in slow motion. There are physical limits to the human body so unless he has been altered past that, reforming muscles, brain chemistry and neuron speed he can not react to a bullet when fired.

It is not PIS if the character is described to be super smart and that it is in their bio. It would be PIS if Deadpool created a time machine. I used the term “mutant” because I didn’t want to list of the different things in the MU such as mystical, meta-human, cosmic and so forth, each of these are not in the peek human performance. MU gives these abilities or “learned” talents if they don’t want “mutants” but no where is Cap said to have any of these abilities, show me where it says that he does.

Originally posted by ThePittman
The “zone” doesn’t mean diddly squat, this is a description of someone that is doing really good at what they have been trained to do and many factors come into play. Yes people have done some amazing stuff that “seems” to deify logic but you are talking about someone seeing something that is traveling from 600 to 1200 ft/s, the human brain process information around 30 m/s. All the descriptions that you have given are all relative and not based on any proven fact, people can not see in slow motion. There are physical limits to the human body so unless he has been altered past that, reforming muscles, brain chemistry and neuron speed he can not react to a bullet when fired.

Pitt have you ever had a near death experience,then you see peak human, time seems to slow down due to quicker thinking, the consciousness stream improves (you notice stuff better) and im sure you've heard of mothers pulling cars of children

Originally posted by quickshot
Pitt have you ever had a near death experience,then you see peak human, time seems to slow down due to quicker thinking, the consciousness stream improves (you notice stuff better) and im sure you've heard of mothers pulling cars of children

Originally posted by ThePittman
Yes people have done some amazing stuff that “seems” to deify logic but you are talking about someone seeing something that is traveling from 600 to 1200 ft/s, the human brain process information around 30 m/s. All the descriptions that you have given are all relative and not based on any proven fact, people can not see in slow motion. There are physical limits to the human body so unless he has been altered past that, reforming muscles, brain chemistry and neuron speed he can not react to a bullet when fired.

As i stated previously Athletes have demonstrated the ability to see speeding objects, that brain chemistry and reaction speeds have determined seemingly impossible. And as i stated before, it has perplexed scientist for centuries how conscious seem to have some meta physical properties that transcend time and space. Imagine what a super soldier, enhanced physically and mentally would be capable of.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Near death is total BS and not even valid for this discussion. A mother lifting up a car is just an adrenalin rush to her muscles that gives her temporary increases in strength, it doesn’t mean that she thinks any faster or react any faster then her body could already.

Just think about it, if a mother has demonstrated that her muscles are capable such feats, then cap is also capable of equalling if not surpassing them. The Super Soldier serum has made Cap the best at everything humans can accomplish, and more.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Near death is total BS and not even valid for this discussion. A mother lifting up a car is just an adrenalin rush to her muscles that gives her temporary increases in strength, it doesn’t mean that she thinks any faster or react any faster then her body could already.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
As i stated previously Athletes have demonstrated the ability to see speeding objects, that brain chemistry and reaction speeds have determined seemingly impossible. And as i stated before, it has perplexed scientist for centuries how conscious seem to have some meta physical properties that transcend time and space. Imagine what a super soldier, enhanced physically and mentally would be capable of.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Just think about it, if a mother has demonstrated that her muscles are capable such feats, then cap is also capable of equalling if not surpassing them. The Super Soldier serum has made Cap the best at everything humans can accomplish, and more.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Humans are limited by the ability of the chemical reaction time that it takes for the signal to be sent from the mind to its muscles so unless this process is changed it can not go faster.

I'm might be wrong but i thought it was the actual process subconscious/conscious stimulation and muscle contraction, that slows the entire process down. I know for a fact that the process action potentials (i.e. e;electrical impulses), are immensely faster than a speeding bullet.

Originally posted by ThePittman
The thing is MU allows for this meta-physical but Cap doesn’t possess these abilities, he can do things that a normal human is not capable of but he has not surpassed them, if he has then it would have been stated in Marvel’s bio.

Marvel Bio's are crap, do not except them. I can grantee you that neither Mark Miller or Ed Brubaker read them, hence Caps consistent meta physical performances.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I'm might be wrong but i thought it was the actual process subconscious/conscious stimulation and muscle contraction, that slows the entire process down. I know for a fact that the process action potentials (i.e. e;electrical impulses), are immensely faster than a speeding bullet.

Marvel Bio's are crap, do not except them. I can grantee you that neither Mark Miller or Ed Brubaker read them, hence Caps consistent meta physical performances.

Originally posted by ThePittman
The chemical reaction time between neurons has been measured to an average of 30 m/s; this is the speed of the electrical impulse from neuron to neuron. However until I see that he is classified as a meta-human he is still limited by human performance.

Well then youre a close minded Fool! Good Day to you sir.

P.S. I though Action potentials traveled A LOT faster than that ?