I like you, Kate, I really like you. Just when I thought you were the one of the biggest J/E shippers of all, you either converted, or you're a really good devil's advocate.
- Norrie has known Liz the longest, and he's well aware of her pirate fetish. This also means Liz has known Norrington a long time. She had plenty of time to fall in love with him and in 8 years (at least) and in 8 years I'm sure he did something daring and cool. He's a great swordsman and strategist, for goodness sake! But was liz impressed? Nope. She wanted a pirate.
- Technically the catalyst for everything starting was Liz taking the medallion from Will. If she didn't have that, it wouldn't matter where Norrie proposed to her.
- Liz does get defensive when Norrie suggests she likes Jack, but she doesn't get defensive when she's there smiling like a dumb schoolgirl while Jack's telling her about the compass and flirting with her. Norrie's there listening to all of it too.
- Norrington's costume, although smokin' hot, is not mirrored after Liz's. Even if it was, her costume is mirroring Jack, so Norrie is modeling Jack.
Knowing kate, I know she's playing the devil's advocate.
She is making a point that yes, those could lead to a Norrie/Liz ship. But this the part when you analyze and think about it.
Norrington and Liz have known each other for over 8 years, at the latest. Wouldn't that had plenty of time for her to be infatuated by him? Instead, she was fascinated by the story of the legendary Jack Sparrow. The evidence: "Are you or aren't you the famous pirate I read about?" That was at the beach scene. Throughout all those years, she has been impressed by the adventures of Jack Sparrow, she never was impressed by Norrington's promotion or his little presentation with his sword.
She gets defensive the fact that Norrington caught her in her horny , school girl smile. She could defend herself by saying, there is nothing between us, your imagining things. Instead she simply said "I trust him, that's all."
I think Norrington, was a wake up call for Liz, because she wouldn't admit that she was attracted to Jack. So he is like "please, woman. It's written all over your face." And I figure that Norrington knew that she has been attracted to Jack from the start.
Originally posted by willofthewisp
I like you, Kate, I really like you. Just when I thought you were the one of the biggest J/E shippers of all, you either converted, or you're a really good devil's advocate.- Norrie has known Liz the longest, and he's well aware of her pirate fetish. This also means Liz has known Norrington a long time. She had plenty of time to fall in love with him and in 8 years (at least) and in 8 years I'm sure he did something daring and cool. He's a great swordsman and strategist, for goodness sake! But was liz impressed? Nope. She wanted a pirate.
- Technically the catalyst for everything starting was Liz taking the medallion from Will. If she didn't have that, it wouldn't matter where Norrie proposed to her.
- Liz does get defensive when Norrie suggests she likes Jack, but she doesn't get defensive when she's there smiling like a dumb schoolgirl while Jack's telling her about the compass and flirting with her. Norrie's there listening to all of it too.
- Norrington's costume, although smokin' hot, is not mirrored after Liz's. Even if it was, her costume is mirroring Jack, so Norrie is modeling Jack.
Oops. You beat me lol
I was getting dinner and then watching Criminal Minds (I solved the case 😄 ). I see you all were busy while I was gone. Interesting all around...
At any rate, I think Kate makes some interesting points, but here are my own on why Norribeth would make a good couple.
I admit, the chances are slim, but hear me out.
1. Intelligence. Elizabeth and Norrington both have had the same type of education, and although James could actually have had more, I think Elizabeth is one of those who learns all she can about every subject presented to her. I can imagine that they would have some great conversations about literature, philosphy and politics at the dinner table.
I know it doesn't sound exciting to most people, but a man who engages the mind can actually be quite sexy. You know, quoting Shakespeare while he's nibbling on your toes and working his way up. That kind of thing. 😉
2. Appearance. This is obviously a shallow reason, but I mean, come on. The man looks good in brocade, and Elizabeth finally got to see him in another light in DMC...and he sure did look nice. 😄 I doubt it went over Elizabeth's head that James is rather hot when he's grimy and sweaty.
3. Chemistry. In CotBP, it's a more subtle, but there is an obvious amount of caring on both sides of the relationship. In DMC, Elizabeth is concerned about James numerous times, not the least of which when he runs off with the chest.
I understand that there is a rather warm reunion scene in AWE, where they see each other after both thinking that the other was dead, and I've heard rumors of a kiss between them. 😄
I have to go for now, but I'll have more later. 😄 I'm And Willo, I'm coming after you about your character analysis of Norrington. "Spineless coward"? What about chaining someone up and leaving them to die? Isn't that rather cowardly?
Surreal, I really respect you. You're usualy on your own and you don't let people change your mind. I have to hand it to you. You're fun to debate with, too.
1. Intelligence. I agree. They could talk about quite a lot and are both educated. Norrington could teach her a lot about navigation and sailing. But...Will and Liz seem to be on equal footing as far as intelligence goes, along with Jack. So I don't think Norrie stands out here, but it's a valid point. They are compatible this way.
And I agree about conversation and intelligence. You need a strong friendship to make it last.
2. Appearance. Well, yeah, Norrie is hot and has the sexiest voice of all of them. So they do look good side by side. But Jack...you may not be attracted to him, but plenty are, and there are even those attracted to Will. This has to be thrown out.
3. Yes, they have chemistry. They care about each other. But Will and Liz definitely care about each other, a lot. And I really do think Jack cares about Liz too and vice versa. For a pirate movie, there's a lot of caring going on.
PS: I was being hard on Norrington. I like his character. I like they made sure he wasn't a cliche. He's really 3-dimensional and complex and that appeals to me. It's a very understated performance by Jack Davenport, too. But...everyone acts like a coward at times in these movies. Norrington uses people and since Liz is now in company with Jack, he knows using the heart to catch Jack could possibly get her hurt. I think he knows Beckett is a baddie but he doesn't care so long as he gets his career back.
And to defend Lizzie......she made a sacrifice to save everyone else. I don't think it was the best choice of action, but she was doing it to protect everyone else.
any man who looks good in brocade has my vote.
Norrington, whether or not he wins the lady, is the most deserving of her and the most likely to actually make her happy in the long run. Here's why.
-Little girl's crush. Elizabeth knew Norrington and he was the man who first showed her ships, who was a part of her past life in England, who perhaps knew her mother. Norrington was the man who saved Will, really. Norrington was the man who put his career and the safety of his passengers on hold to launch the boats and look for other survivors. Everything she learned about honor and heroism, Elizabeth learned from Norrington. Didn't you guys ever see Memiors of a Geisha? Little girl crush. yeah she was captivated by the thought of the legendary pirates, or the boy who turns up on a plank, but her first and original understanding of men was from Norrington. Just because she didn't seem "infatuated" with him in cotbp doesnt mean she doesn't value him immensly, or trust him, or feel he is a strong person to lean on.
Norrington got the heart. His trickiness outdid Will and Jack.
If you study into the body language of the two, there is a very interesting other topic you can bring up of Victorian fan language. Starting from the 1500s, woman used fans as a communication device, a silent flirting method if you will. Any proper woman or man was trained how to use these signals and what they meant. So Elizabeths rapid fan fluttering during his coronation ceremony means "Come to me, I want you." Now fast forward to film 2, during the swordfight in the bar. Elizabeth's sword is pointed away from her at an upward angle when the fight pauses before she whacks him with the bottle. This angle, when used with a fan, was meant to convey a similar message: "come hither." Norrington's drunken bellow, along the lines of "who wants a piece of me", is met with decisive action on the part of Elizabeth.
Do you ever see her take such decisive, honest actions with Will or Jack? nope. with them she's always manipulating and wavering. James is the only man she can be truly honest with.
It's all about the journey. "Has my daughter given you an answer yet?" "no, she hasn't". "Well, it has been a very trying day for her." and yes, it has, because Elizabeth has been thrust into a new world and she has tons of growth ahead of her. She is given oppurtunities to do and experience things she never would have before. It will be some time before she is able to give James her answer--- the answer that comes at the end of the journey, and leads her character full circle.
She was all set to marry Norrington at the end of Cotbp, and didnt seem upset about it at all. She hardly reacts to Will's declaration of love; it's only in order to save both Jack and Will's life that she steps in front of the guns, well knowing James (at this point, anyways) won't feel she is equal to him in terms of honor for such behavior. Until he turns rumpot himself, that is.
heck, her tears at the end of DMC could very well be for James as well, who they presume dead probably.
Willo, thank you, I'm quite honored with the title devil's advocate. Chiki, Misty, don't panic, you've always known I was a closet norribether. Surreal, whats all this i hear about a reunion kiss? 😉
well i'm out. night all. 🙂
Willo: 😄 I will cling to my ship until the movie is over...and then I will go write fanfiction and weep a lot of I don't get my way. Well, weeping might be a little over-the-top, but the fanfiction I would definitely do. 😄
I really do believe Jack, Will and Norrington are equals as far as intelligence go, but I think that Elizabeth would have more interesting and stimulating conversations with Norrington, because as I mentioned, their educations are very similar.
Jack might actually be her next equal in stimulating conversation, because I would guess that he's had a fair amount of education, and then Will would be last, because he was only a blacksmith. He may have been given a bit of education, but I am not sure how much he actually would have had.
So anyway... 😄
And while appearance may not be a huge factor in everything, I think it would actually help in this case. Before, Elizabeth has only really known James in formal attire and 'proper' settings. Now she's had an opportunity to get to know the man beneath the polished exterior. And it's not like he fell out of the ugly tree, you know?
Interesting point about body language, Kate. I think that more so than the fan and all that, just watch the two of them together. They are actually quite comfortable together. 😄
By the way, have you closely watched the deleted proposal scene in CotBP? I love that entire thing! Such a great moment. I think the writers said that Elizabeth would have been happy with Norrington, and grown to love him. Not sure where that was...must go look...
And I saw a rumor about a kiss between N/E, but eh, I didn't mark it so I have no idea where it is. Would be nice if it happened though. I personally think he should have kissed her before running off with the chest. 😄
And I saw a rumor about a kiss between N/E, but eh, I didn't mark it so I have no idea where it is. Would be nice if it happened though.
Really a kiss between Norrington and Elizabeth? I wouldn't want to miss that. I'll make sure I'll load my self with lots of caffeine, so I don't fall asleep during Norrington's scenes. 😛
I would like to see Liz and Norrie kiss, even though that kind of whores her out.
That's really interesting about the fan, and I think I'd heard that before.
Unfortunately, Kate, Liz does look upset when she gets engaged to Norrington. Look at her face right before Jack does his famous "drinks all around" bit. She looks so upset. And then later when Will says, "your fiance's waiting," she looks at him so pathetically, like she knows she has nothing to look forward to. When Norrie asks her where her heart really lies, she affirms it's next to Will and Jack. And I've seen the deleted scenes between them and really like them. It humanizes Norrington and shows the understanding he and Liz have, and I do think that if they married, she would eventually fall in love with him.
But she has no interest in him other than a friend. She shows a clear aversion to marrying him.
And I think Norrington let go of Elizabeth. I think he was infatuated by her because he saw her growing up and is the Governor's daughter.
What Norrington never wants to let go is his career, and his mission to capture Jack Sparrow. He refuses to let go of Jack Sparrow.
I think Norrington wants the fame and attention he wants when they see that he captured the most famous pirate of the 7 seas--a legend.
Chiki, your characterization of Norrington isn't quite fair.
One reason I say this is that is because on WordPlayer, Terry has discussed some of Norrington's motivations on WordPlayer.
Here: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/moviesarc07/index.cgi?read=85293
Is posting to another forum against the rules? If so, I can remove the link and just PM it to those who are interested. 😄
The above link was actually supposed to be this one: http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/moviesarc07/index.cgi?read=87910 😄