Exar is a lightsaber prodigy who uses the double-bladed form style. Yes, I agree this is very impressive. However what makes him greater than Dooku and his skill with Makashi?
Dooku was considered to be one of the greatest losses to the Jedi Order and one of the strongest to go through it. He was a Battlemaster, and will likely won't be taken aback by Exar's style.
Dooku's skill with Makashi allowed to contest against the likes of very powerful swordsmen, like Grievous, Yoda, and Anakin.
I agree Exar is definately stronger in the Force and would win overall as well. I am just not sure that it's so definate that Exar can kill Dooku in a lightsaber contest as well.
BUMP
dookus force mastery > exar and that gives him an advantage.
Exar only has stupid amulet blasts and sith spells which might not work against a powerful force user like dooku. Though the amulet is extremely dangerous
EDIT and dont forget exar is extremely cocky and he would think dooku is an old fool.That could be his down fall. Exar has never been shown to use his amulet against a force user, he trys to show of by killing them with his lightsaber
Humm tough fight. I'd give a slight edge to Dooku in saber combat, but not much. It could go either way. The same being said for force. As some previous posters have mentioned Kun hasn't displayed any force power of relevance to a Vs. battle (other then 'teh l33t amulet blastz!!11'😉 where as Dooku has, on many occasions. Regardless I'd say its pretty obvious that Kun's potential is far greater then Dooku's and Kun has more raw power then Dooku, the question then is: does he have the techniques/ knowledge? Hard to say, but Dooku has a great deal more experience then Kun does, making me believe that Dooku might have more knowledge in his possession. Overall I'd say that its a pretty close fight, could go either way.
1. I say Dooku. He runs circles around experienced opponents. He has beaten Mace in the past, tied him during the clone wars, beat AOTC Anakin and Obi Wan etc. http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sorapwnedys9.jpg http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tholmedookuduelga6.jpg He also trained or was able to beat people like Greivous, Asajj, Qui Gon, and Quinlan. He knows Ataru inside and out (and likely most of the other forms) along with Makashi, and could probably beat any user (with Yoda as the exception, of course)
2. If the amulet blast could work on Dooku, and Dookus shield isn't strong enough to deflect it, then, there's your answer. However, Kuns other feats don't help him in a vs. match, while Dookus force pushes have been described as solid walls, he has some powerful lightning, he can throw Kenobi across the room easy cookies, he has choked Komari Vosa like nothing, he has casually choked Quinlan while taking his lightsaber with the force, and he, with one finger, brought Asajj to her knees with pain. If Kuns amulet blast is unblockable and he tries that first thing, then, he wins. If not, Dooku trumps him.
3. Dooku was the former battle master of the Order. He was able to Keep a wounded Greivous alive with the force. He led an attack against the last of the Mandolorians.
Originally posted by Kadesh
and dont forget exar is extremely cocky
"Extremely"? I'd say that's quite the overstatement. The majority of Sith Lords are cocky, but Exar Kun isn't "extremely cocky" by any stretch of the word. I can cite two examples where he's demonstrated that he doesn't underestimate his opposition, and both of which are off the top of my head:
1.) Taking a look back, when there is some friction between Kun and Ulic, as Ulic has just gained great military strength and wants to attack Coruscant. Kun warns against this, saying they should build slowly and attack together. Kun's attitude towards this attack is best summed up in his parting words:
"Very well, Qel-Droma. Prove your manhood if you must. If you fail, I will go on without you."
Ulic had soon after been arrested; his attack on Coruscant had failed, due to Aleema's manipulations.
2.) During his final moments in the flesh, he states "But even I can't fight the combined might of all the Jedi", and instead of attempting to defend against the oncoming foe (which would be unstoppable), he releases himself so he can live forever, and one day revert back to his real form.
Exar isn't cocky per se, he's confident, and rightfully so, but were a situation to arise like the above, I only see him display a sense of being level headed. Note: This is addressed further below.
and he would think dooku is an old fool.That could be his down fall.
ORLY?
I've always operated under the assumption that a Jedi could sense another's power level (see: Yoda/Obi-Wan, Vader/Luke), who's to say Exar will think Count Dooku's an "old fool"? Too bad Exar's thoughts aren't what Kadesh dictates, now are they? You haven't even established a pattern of him underestimating strong opponents.
Now, we've never actually witnessed Kun face anyone else (except Ulic) who is powerful enough to even begin to put him into a dangerous position. So, explain to me how you of all people can judge how he'd react to stronger opponents like Count Dooku?
In the same whim, if you were to list this as a disadvantage for Exar, then it's certainly one for Count Dooku. I'd submit that his arrogance is at an astounding level, definitely above and beyond Exar's. Which means, if it could lead to Exar's down fall, it has a more than likely chance to lead to Count Dooku's own.
Exar has never been shown to use his amulet against a force user
Yes, this would seem absolutely correct except:
"But they use the dark side of the Force with skill to guide and control their primitive weapons!"
You were saying? Massassi are force users, whether primitive or not. As well, what's the relevance in even mentioning this? Since when does he have to display them against anyone for him to be able to use them? Oh? He doesn't? Exar's amulet beams are viable for this match given they're effects (blasting through temple rock, disintegrating Massassi and a Sith Wyrm, as well as setting ablaze the location), and the fact that they're tangible.
One could argue there'd be a defense, but even assuming Dooku has one, if he were to get hit off guard ala Yoda in RotS or plainly overpowered ("with every pulse of [Kun's] anger the amulet doubles the power of its discharge"😉, then he'd go down. That's even assuming he had the knowledge of how to block something he'd only have minimal information on, if any at all.
he trys to show of by killing them with his lightsaber
Right:
If you could, Kadesh, point out to me in that entire scene where Exar's lightsaber was activated? Oh? What's that? It wasn't? Exar's only combated (back and forth) a grand total of three opponents after destroying Freedon Nadd's spirit. I'll show a short review of said opponents:
1.) Ulic Qel-Droma. Now, we all know he stalemated him in saber combat, however, the fight was interrupted. Plus, Kun dabbled more in the "forbidden teachings" of the Darkside after that anyways.
2.) Vodo Siosk-Bass. Yes, this piece of candy here posed so much of a threat, that Exar would need to blast a hole through him and the entire Senate arena. I mean, yeah - he caused so much trouble that he admitted defeat, and Exar tooled him after one page of igniting the other end of his lightsaber.
3.) Odan Urr. Yeah, not much action here, besides him dying with just a wave of his hand. Something he must've learned somewhere, eh? I doubt ol' Vodo taught him that trick.
In addition, he casually launches Sylvar with a Force push, and she is described as "of no consequence to [Exar Kun]". He also toppled Aleema with Sith magic far greater than her own, and knocked her unconscious long enough for Ulic and Exar to engage in a duel, be interrupted by Marka Ragnos, and be crowned Dark Lord of the Sith, and apprentice respectively.
He didn't get a chance to take out Ood fully, seeing as how he rooted himself into the ground. But, other than the aforementioned, he hasn't fought many opponents. It's ridiculous to assume that he likes to use a lightsaber against his opponents when we've only seen him do so twice, and on several occasions, he's used the Force to either: a) remove, or b) kill the opposition. Exar has never shown a preference for using either one over the other.
Anyways, this is the Versus Forum, it's not a storybook, son. Exar has all of his powers in his arsenal, and can use them at will. It's an on paper duel.
exar never used the amulets in battle neither did he display lightning, grip or other powers that people like sidious dooku and vader use to kill their enemies
Since when was that the prerequisite for being able to actively use them in combat? He's only fought three opponents, and only one was worthy.
It's an established fact that he knows numerous powers, we know what force lightning does; he doesn't have to exhibit it. Likewise, he knows force whirlwind, and it gives the exact definition of what it does in the same sourcebook that labels him as knowing it, so why would he have to show that he knows that power? From what I gather off your posts, you're trying to imply that Exar won't use said Force powers since he hasn't been shown to use them on any opponents - that's seems a little fallacious, given that Kun isn't required to do such for him to use them at any time in the duel where there's an opportunity.
Furthermore, Exar must know Force grip or something similar to it, which just happens to practically instakill thousand year old Jedi masters, who happen to be extremely knowledgeable in the ways of the Force, as well as powerful. For reference, see above scan where I call into question your lack of evidence about Exar using his lightsaber, and "showing off" (I suppose Obi-Wan must want to be a show off then, too, eh?).
Now, on top of all that, there's several other abilities he's been shown to know, which Count Dooku, in the most likely case, hasn't even heard of, much less have a defense for. For example, his immense knowledge of Sith magic, some of which he has demonstrated in action:
Now, that alone doesn't mean much, but when you take into account of what the Jedi Academy Sourcebook states on the matter of Ancient Sith teachings:
"The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun; it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin Four, or elsewhere (keep in mind that even Lord Vader, himself a Dark Lord of the Sith, did not know all there is to know of Sith powers)."
It becomes quite clear that the only likely candidates for knowing Sadow's teaching would be: 1) Darth Sidious, 2) Freedon Nadd, 3) Revan, and 4) Darth Bane (and the Ancients themselves, of course). Seeing as the quote implies that Darth Vader, who was under Sidious' tutelage for far longer than Count Dooku, didn't even know of such things; I find it nigh improbable that Count Dooku does.
Finally, there's the matter of what we've seen Exar do as a 4,000 year old weakened spirit. He was able to fry Gantoris from the inside out with a technique that wasn't Force lightning (seeing as how he cannot use it as a spirit; some form of a drain, perhaps), and then rendered every defense of which post-DE Luke knew futile:
"...Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him-but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly."
And it also mentions previously that he was seeking any defensive tactic to work. This would imply that he had no defense for it. As Lightsnake would undoubtedly point out, he could've been drawing on the focal points of the temple (or something of the sort), but to actually assume that Exar as a spirit has anything over himself in the flesh is ridiculous. He was stated to be unable to access certain techniques in his ghostly form, and had to draw upon other's life forces to even begin to sustain himself. Even with Kyp "Greenhorn" Durron, Exar as a living being is greater in power.
Plus, post-DE Luke is stronger than Count Dooku in the Force, anyways. So, I don't have much of a doubt that it would work on Dooku.
@ Jollyjim:
Where've I heard some of those feats you've listed before? 😛
One thing to that pwnage Advent. You guys keep calling Exar Kun a "spirit". But I have continuously brought forth an argument that states Kun isn't a spirit in the normal sense. He DID use a technique to shed his body but it's more than likely that the Wall of Light confined him to the Massassi temple. So I wouldn't call him a spirit like Nadd, or Yoda. His spirit would be better compared to Sidious after his death on Endor, when he still had a small array of abilities.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
One thing to that pwnage Advent. You guys keep calling Exar Kun a "spirit". But I have continuously brought forth an argument that states Kun isn't a spirit in the normal sense. He DID use a technique to shed his body but it's more than likely that the Wall of Light confined him to the Massassi temple. So I wouldn't call him a spirit like Nadd, or Yoda. His spirit would be better compared to Sidious after his death on Endor, when he still had a small array of abilities.
I'm no ghostbuster, but...
He is still a spirit, regardless of what you would say, he's labelled as such in numerous sources, ergo that's what I'm inclined to call him. Plus, what exactly are you talking about, lol? It's quite obvious that he still could use some abilities (as my post points that out), although the majority of which were rendered useless, and he was still weak to the point where he had to drain students, so as he could preserve himself; anyways, the point is: he's still a spirit, nevertheless.
I notice you bring up the point of the "Wall of Light" technique the Jedi used bound him to the temple, well, Freedon Nadd was anchored to the physical world by his tomb.
I don't really know exactly what you're trying to get out, but Exar can be called a spirit. To be exact, tDSSB titles him as "Exar Kun, Dark Side Spirit", along with every other deceased Dark Lord who appeared as an apparition. There appears to be no distinction between people like Exar, and Sidious as opposed to Ragnos, or Nadd. Although, it says Exar was the only Sith Lord noted as willingly giving up his life, but that doesn't matter much.
You're right, Exar Kun and Sidious are in the same boat. They both have abilities they could use on living beings. The likes of Nadd and Yoda and any other spirit couldn't use physical abilities on living people. I'm just saying Kun used a ritual to become a spirit but not a normal spirit like you always hear about in the SW universe.
Originally posted by Adventas i was saying, Did he ever demonstrate it on a jedi?. What difference does it make if the massassi were force users? The couldnt do what a jedi would do? I was saying, in a fight with another jedi, had exar even been shown to use the amulet to aid him, If no, why are you assuming he is using it in a battle against dooku?You were saying? Massassi are force users, whether primitive or not. As well, what's the relevance in even mentioning this? Since when does he have to display them against anyone for him to be able to use them? Oh? He doesn't? Exar's amulet beams are viable for this match given they're effects (blasting through temple rock, disintegrating Massassi and a Sith Wyrm, as well as setting ablaze the location), and the fact that they're tangible.
Originally posted by AdventThats when you are assuming that exar is using the amulet blasts during this battle, which he has never demonstrated in any other battle against jedis,
One could argue there'd be a defense, but even assuming Dooku has one, if he were to get hit off guard ala Yoda in RotS or plainly overpowered ("with every pulse of [Kun's] anger the amulet doubles the power of its discharge"😉, then he'd go down. That's even assuming he had the knowledge of how to block something he'd only have minimal information on, if any at all.
Originally posted by AdventFirstly i was referring to the fight with vodo, he could have used the amulet but he chose to use his lightsaber, By the way, Odan is 1000 years old and got killed by a simple force push, is there even a reason to pull out the lightsaber? I dont think so
If you could, Kadesh, point out to me in that entire scene where Exar's lightsaber was activated? Oh? What's that? It wasn't? Exar's only combated (back and forth) a grand total of three opponents after destroying Freedon Nadd's spirit. I'll show a short review of said opponents:
Originally posted by AdventThats right, sith alchemy and he cant even do a simple force drain without using sith aparatus
1.) Ulic Qel-Droma. Now, we all know he stalemated him in saber combat, however, the fight was interrupted. Plus, Kun dabbled more in the "forbidden teachings" of the Darkside after that anyways.
Originally posted by Advent
2.) Vodo Siosk-Bass. Yes, this piece of candy here posed so much of a threat, that Exar would need to blast a hole through him and the entire Senate arena. I mean, yeah - he caused so much trouble that he admitted defeat, and Exar tooled him after one page of igniting the other end of his lightsaber.
Well of course you assume the amulet blast is going to tear vodo apart and further more go through him to hit the senate wall, Again how do we know that would be the out come? But again, what about other "darkside" powers? Grip? crush? Lightning? He never demonstrated them in any of his battles
Originally posted by AdventYou mean a simple force push? It looked like he was using it, if it is a different technique, name the technique and elaborate it
3.) Odan Urr. Yeah, not much action here, besides him dying with just a wave of his hand. Something he must've learned somewhere, eh? I doubt ol' Vodo taught him that trick.
Originally posted by AdventWow a force push and abit of sith alchemy who knocks out a weakling is impressive? Sylvar is a joke and aleema is a wussy if you compare her to actual jedis, Again the fight was like what a page or 2? Couldnt have been long, we cant tell, could have been 10 seconds could have been a minute, We dont know
In addition, he casually launches Sylvar with a Force push, and she is described as "of no consequence to [Exar Kun]". He also toppled Aleema with Sith magic far greater than her own, and knocked her unconscious long enough for Ulic and Exar to engage in a duel, be interrupted by Marka Ragnos, and be crowned Dark Lord of the Sith, and apprentice respectively.
Originally posted by Advent
He didn't get a chance to take out Ood fully, seeing as how he rooted himself into the ground. But, other than the aforementioned, he hasn't fought many opponents. It's ridiculous to assume that he likes to use a lightsaber against his opponents when we've only seen him do so twice, and on several occasions, he's used the Force to either: a) remove, or b) kill the opposition. Exar has never shown a preference for using either one over the other.
But has he been shown using the amulet to kill his enemies which are jedis? He wanted the artifacts ood was keeping, Ood rooted himself and what could kun have done to remove him? Simple, an amulte blast. he had ample time before the super nova reaches Ossus
Originally posted by AdventAnd? Has he demonstrated even a simple jolt of lightning which the DSSB claims he mastered? No, and there were times he could have used it
Anyways, this is the Versus Forum, it's not a storybook, son. Exar has all of his powers in his arsenal, and can use them at will. It's an on paper duel.
Originally posted by AdventThen i guess the fact that he used them on the massasi meant they > the jedi is it? Of course not
Since when was that the prerequisite for being able to actively use them in combat? He's only fought three opponents, and only one was worthy.
Originally posted by AdventSo? DE sidious knows everything and yet we do ever argue that he would use techniques like deaadly sight, Spear of midnight black or electromagnetic torpedo, Why? Because simply he has never demonstrated them, its the same case with exar kun, lets say, Lumiya has never demonstrated lightning once in her life. And if we were to debate her in a versus fight, would it even be logical to say that she will be using lightning?
It's an established fact that he knows numerous powers, we know what force lightning does; he doesn't have to exhibit it. Likewise, he knows force whirlwind, and it gives the exact definition of what it does in the same sourcebook that labels him as knowing it, so why would he have to show that he knows that power? From what I gather off your posts, you're trying to imply that Exar won't use said Force powers since he hasn't been shown to use them on any opponents - that's seems a little fallacious, given that Kun isn't required to do such for him to use them at any time in the duel where there's an opportunity.
Originally posted by AdventKill a thousand year old jedi? You mean Odan? I thought you said he killed odan with a wave of his hand? Clearly the comic showed us that exar used a simple push.
Furthermore, Exar must know Force grip or something similar to it, which just happens to practically instakill thousand year old Jedi masters, who happen to be extremely knowledgeable in the ways of the Force, as well as powerful. For reference, see above scan where I call into question your lack of evidence about Exar using his lightsaber, and "showing off" (I suppose Obi-Wan must want to be a show off then, too, eh?).
Originally posted by AdventAnd what about precognition?
Now, on top of all that, there's several other abilities he's been shown to know, which Count Dooku, in the most likely case, hasn't even heard of, much less have a defense for. For example, his immense knowledge of Sith magic, some of which he has demonstrated in action:
Originally posted by AdventAleema was a weakling, and all it did was knock her out
Originally posted by AdventYea, when he has the entire dark side of yavin to back him up, the golden globe to fuel his powers, uh-huhFinally, there's the matter of what we've seen Exar do as a 4,000 year old weakened spirit. He was able to fry Gantoris from the inside out with a technique that wasn't Force lightning (seeing as how he cannot use it as a spirit; some form of a drain, perhaps), and then rendered every defense of which post-DE Luke knew futile:
Originally posted by AdventHe drew power from the golden globe as a spirit and if you assume this is on yavin, exar does pretty much get powered up, But wait the golden globe powers up sith lords, not just one specific force user. I discussed this with lightsnake
And it also mentions previously that he was seeking any defensive tactic to work. This would imply that he had no defense for it. As Lightsnake would undoubtedly point out, he could've been drawing on the focal points of the temple (or something of the sort), but to actually assume that Exar as a spirit has anything over himself in the flesh is ridiculous. He was stated to be unable to access certain techniques in his ghostly form, and had to draw upon other's life forces to even begin to sustain himself. Even with Kyp "Greenhorn" Durron, Exar as a living being is greater in power.
Originally posted by AdventBut i do, Because 1) he had the entire dark side on yavin2) he had the golden globe who could increase his powers alot 3) Sadly this only takes place on yavin
Plus, post-DE Luke is stronger than Count Dooku in the Force, anyways. So, I don't have much of a doubt that it would work on Dooku.
Originally posted by Advent
I'm no ghostbuster, but...He is still a spirit, regardless of what you would say, he's labelled as such in numerous sources, ergo that's what I'm inclined to call him. Plus, what exactly are you talking about, lol? It's quite obvious that he still could use some abilities (as my post points that out), although the majority of which were rendered useless, and he was still weak to the point where he had to drain students, so as he could preserve himself; anyways, the point is: he's still a spirit, nevertheless.
I notice you bring up the point of the "Wall of Light" technique the Jedi used bound him to the temple, well, Freedon Nadd was anchored to the physical world by his tomb.
I don't really know exactly what you're trying to get out, but Exar can be called a spirit. To be exact, tDSSB titles him as "Exar Kun, Dark Side Spirit", along with every other deceased Dark Lord who appeared as an apparition. There appears to be no distinction between people like Exar, and Sidious as opposed to Ragnos, or Nadd. Although, it says Exar was the only Sith Lord noted as willingly giving up his life, but that doesn't matter much.
Exar took numerous precautions to assume he didn't fade over time and lose his power...the Golden Globe, the darkness in Yavin, the giant statues? All of those he had to draw on when he awakened later on.
Moreover, he wasn't 'bound' by the Wall of Light. His own **** up did that. Didn't he even admit that he bound his spirit to Yavin but didn't forsee it'd trap him?
Originally posted by The Sith'ari
Vodo, Thon and Odan were the top three imo, and Vodo clearly was pretty powerful
That can Easily be disputed the for all we know Vandar could pwn Vodo in a few secs after all he seemed to be closer to Grand Master at the time than Anyone w/ the possible exeption of Odan
Originally posted by Kadesh
as i was saying, Did he ever demonstrate it on a jedi?
Except that's not what you said. If you're memory is really that horrid, then I have no problem posting your exact words. You see, what you did was attempt to parrot others' arguments on the matter, and what you failed to realize about doing such is that it's often going to be incorrect unless you were to word it differently.
My advice: make your own arguments. It has been shown to work on living, Force using beings, ergo you'll need to specify which Force users.
What difference does it make if the massassi were force users? The couldnt do what a jedi would do?
Actually, the real question is: who cares if it hasn't been exhibited on a Jedi? We know exactly what type of energies the beams release, which is dark side energy. This is the very same type that the Dark Jedi, Jerec, had used on Kyle Katarn after he found the Valley of the Jedi, and got an exponential boost of power.
Essentially, through Jerec's actions, it's safe to assume they work on Force users, considering Kyle was a Force user, and the most prodigious of such, as well (more so than Luke, even). A defense is possible, but given the sheer magnitude and power behind the blasts (to the point where they literally disintegrate whole beings, and blast holes through a monstrous Sith Wyrm), I find it highly unlikely that anyone short of Yoda could even attempt to block such things.
I was saying, in a fight with another jedi, had exar even been shown to use the amulet to aid him, If no, why are you assuming he is using it in a battle against dooku?
Yes, but what I'm saying is that's ridiculous. I've already addressed the fact that he doesn't have to display powers in battle for him to use them. The fact of the matter is: there was never anyone to use it on.
He's been shown to use the amulet when he was threatened, why must one use a power against a Jedi for him to use in a battle against one? In this case, you cannot use the absurd logic you're using because we know he has said powers, and was willing to use them; the fact he didn't use them on a Force user is irrelevant.
Thats when you are assuming that exar is using the amulet blasts during this battle
Kadesh, when has Darth Vader ever used Force crush on a Jedi? Oh? He hasn't? Fancy that. Aren't you the Vader fellater (lol!), who constantly says "t3h vader shall crush teh d00d!!!ONELEVEN"?
Double standards do apply, you know. But, I'm getting a little off topic. To return to my point, of course I'm going to assume that Exar can use a weapon in his arsenal. We've never seen him use force lightning during a bout, does this mean he cannot do such? Don't be ridiculous. I've already made a list of those who he has ever affected in a duel, and a grand total of one stood out as being powerful. What reason would he actually have to launch a full scale attack?
Answer: He wouldn't need to, seeing as how all the Jedi that he faced (save for Ulic, again) were out of his league by light years. Out of all that we have actually seen, not one of them could even stand up to Exar. Even going on the movies alone, in AotC, Count Dooku had no reason to use force choke, or grip or any other techniques against Anakin, and Obi-Wan (albeit, he used lightning; but we can assume it wasn't his upper limit), does this mean he couldn't? Absolutely not.
He doesn't need to demonstrate these powers in a duel for him to use them here, seeing as this isn't a storybook. There is no plot, no set course of events. It's an on paper duel.
which he has never demonstrated in any other battle against jedis
See above. He doesn't need to.
Firstly i was referring to the fight with vodo, he could have used the amulet but he chose to use his lightsaber
Actually, Kadesh, you were very vague, and you clearly weren't referring to Vodo (singularly). Can we take a look at what you initially wrote:
Originally posted by Kadesh
he trys to show of by killing them with his lightsaber
Is Vodo two or more people? Oops! Please, if you intend to attempt (key) to argue against me, you'd better be clear. Your post definitely didn't indicate that you were referencing Vodo, so here you seem to either be: a) lying or b) attempt to save your arguments. Either that, or you truly have no understanding of the English language.
Buddha be damned! I keep forgetting to directly address the "point" (I don't see one, but...). Who cares if he didn't use an amulet blast to kill Vodo? Throughout the entire dialogue during the duel, he says "Join me". Clearly, his initial plans were to attempt to turn him. Once he figures out that Vodo's refusal stands strong, he cleaves him in two.
Also, it was his former master; why strike him down so easily when he could toy with him? I could also ask questions like: why does Sidious only use Force lightning on Yoda one time? Why not twice? Why does Yoda ignite his lightsaber instead of using another Force power? Why doesn't everyone use a Force power against General Grievous? Why doesn't Anakin just Force push every single droid he encounters?
It has to do with the plot, what the author wants. Here, none of such restrictions apply. I could ask why doesn't he use his lightsaber on Odan Urr? Why use a technique that chokes him?
By the way, Odan is 1000 years old and got killed by a simple force push, is there even a reason to pull out the lightsaber? I dont think so
"A simple Force push"? Kadesh, the only person who was pushed was Exar Kun. Take another look at that scan, you blind bat:
Where was Odan pushed? Oh? Lying now? By the way, you'll also notice that, in the bottom panel, his fingers are trying to clench the collar on his robe around his throat.
Thats right, sith alchemy
Sith alchemy? Do you blatantly love making shit up? Or telling me what such things are, when you haven't even read the source material?
The "forbidden teachings", as you wanted to point out for whatever irrelevant reasons, are Ancient Sith teachings from Naga Sadow, of which he mastered by the end of TSW. That would include: Sith magic, Sith powers, and oh! Sith alchemy.
But, hey, I give you kudos for naming one of the things; then again, you don't even know what Sith alchemy is, lol!
and he cant even do a simple force drain without using sith aparatus
So, when he drained Gantoris' life force, what "Sith apparatus", did he use? Direct quotes, please. And can you actually prove that he cannot drain without using said "apparatus"? I'd submit not.
Well of course you assume the amulet blast is going to tear vodo apart and further more go through him to hit the senate wall, Again how do we know that would be the out come?
Considering how minuscule in comparison to a Sith Wyrm Vodo is, I'd say that's a definite outcome.
We get a full scale view of how large the Sith Wyrm was that was unleashed on Kun. From the following picture, we also see how big a Massassi is in comparison:
Notice the major size difference? We can also assume that the Wyrm would be tougher to blast through, anyways. However, we see that Exar was able to completely blast a hole through part of the Wyrm, and it continued to travel:
It's highly likely that someone as small as Vodo would be disintegrate with much easier (given his size, and mass), and the blast would, of course, go on past his body.
But again, what about other "darkside" powers? Grip? crush? Lightning? He never demonstrated them in any of his battles
I see the entire point flew over your head like Superman. I'd suggest you reread what I wrote. You're addressing them as separate points, when - in this case - they are a single point.
You mean a simple force push? It looked like he was using it, if it is a different technique, name the technique and elaborate it
Originally posted by Advent
"A simple Force push"? Kadesh, the only person who was pushed was Exar Kun. Take another look at that scan, you blind bat:Where was Odan pushed? Oh? Lying now? By the way, you'll also notice that, in the bottom panel, his fingers are trying to clench the collar on his robe around his throat.
Elaborate what? It's an unknown technique, one would assume Force grip or choke given by his hand actions (Odan's).
Wow a force push and abit of sith alchemy who knocks out a weakling is impressive?
No, are you really that daft? As I've said before, you are a moron. This is what I'm referring to:
"It's ridiculous to assume that he likes to use a lightsaber against his opponents when we've only seen him do so twice, and on several occasions, he's used the Force to either: a) remove, or b) kill the opposition. Exar has never shown a preference for using either one over the other."
Same point con't...
Wow a force push and abit of sith alchemy who knocks out a weakling is impressive?
Like I said above, on every single one of my points you are assuming that I am listing them for the sake of proving Exar's worth. But, that's not what I'm doing. Seeing as you are severely lacking in reading comprehension, I might as well spoon feed you this shit. It's not about feats, as you so blindly assume, it's really about the fact he hasn't shown a preference during a fight, so your claim was inaccurate. Although, your claim was irrelevant to begin with; but I tried to make it relevant by applying what you said into this duel, and thusly disproved it.
Sylvar is a joke and aleema is a wussy if you compare her to actual jedis, Again the fight was like what a page or 2? Couldnt have been long, we cant tell, could have been 10 seconds could have been a minute, We dont know
See above.
We don't need to know, seeing as how everything you've wrote has nothing to do with my point. As a matter of fact, you're proving my point! I stated that no one he's affected, whether through uses of the Force, or with a lightsaber, warranted the use of such powers.
Thanks, rofl!
We dont know
See above. We don't need to.
He wanted the artifacts ood was keeping, Ood rooted himself and what could kun have done to remove him? Simple, an amulte blast.
Oh, my, yes. How could I forget! Use an amulet beam, which has been shown to devastate the target by disintegration, and afterwards setting ablaze the area! Imagine that against a tree, which right under it are were said artifacts are located. Why not just use the Death Star's superlaser, for Buddha's sake?
Get real, Kadesh. He would gravely put to risk what he was even after. Note: This is addressed further below.
he had ample time before the super nova reaches Ossus
Hate to burst your bubble, but to directly quote Exar Kun: "We have little time to take it all for ourselves!". You were saying?
It's obvious that Exar didn't care too much about what the Neti possessed, given his dialogue here, and on the following page where the omniscient narrator states that Exar has "more wealth and knowledge than [Kun] can hope to use".
And? Has he demonstrated even a simple jolt of lightning which the DSSB claims he mastered? No and there were times he could have used it
Again, you're trying to say that this is a prerequisite for using a power in battle, when it's not. He doesn't have to exhibit a technique of which we know he has; and of which we know the effects of. Your assertions regarding this point are pure ludicrous. They have absolutely no logic backing them.
We've seen him throw out Force powers against his foes, that's enough evidence to support that he would use any other techniques in his arsenal. In terms of the comics, why use strong powers against weak opponents? In the same boat, except twisted around for this specific duel, why use weak powers (push, etc.) against strong opponents?
Answer to both: you wouldn't do such.
then i guess the fact that he used them on the massasi meant they > the jedi is it? Of course not
Then again, you also decided not to include other facts, and instead tried to twist my words, so as they might fit your argument. The Sith Wyrm > The Jedi. Yes, considering how it was able to swallow Jedi whole.in one bite. And the fact that he, at that time, was in dire need of some form of assistance. He was merely a rogue padawan when he first used the beams against the Wyrm, what powers could he have used then? I'd submit any padawan would've been doomed in the same situation, especially when you take into consideration the fact that he was unarmed, the light side was blocked from him, he just regained consciousness, and was being grappled by the beast.
Plus, initially, as the energies grew, he said he could "barely direct it". So, I wouldn't say killing the Massassi was intentional, or it might have been, which either way doesn't matter considering he was already using the beams as a last resort in that specific situation. Since then, he's mastered the amulets, however.
So? DE sidious knows everything
No, he doesn't. Quit lying out of your ass, Kadesh. I don't want to call you directly out on it, but at this point, you're spewing absolute bullshit. The actual quote is:
"It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers and devises new ones at his pleasure."
Now, prove up or shut up, noob.
and yet we do ever argue that he would use techniques like deaadly sight, Spear of midnight black or electromagnetic torpedo, Why?
1.) Spear of Midnight Black? The only known usage of that technique was by Kyle Katarn, and that's only a possibility. Proof that Palpatine knows it?
2.) Electromagnetic Torpedo? The only known user of this technique was Rokur Gepta. Proof that Palpatine knows it? Why would Gepta share the secret with Palpatine? And not to say this is an actual source, or evidence, but even your lame ass Wookiepedia says that.
3.) Anyways, the difference between what you listed, and what I'm arguing is simple: Exar is stated to know these powers for fact. The same can not be said for Palpatine, and the aforementioned powers. Try again.
Because simply he has never demonstrated them, its the same case with exar kun, lets say, Lumiya has never demonstrated lightning once in her life. And if we were to debate her in a versus fight, would it even be logical to say that she will be using lightning?[/QUOTE]
Has it been said anywhere that Lumiya actually knows Force lightning?
Anyways, the difference between what you listed, and what I'm arguing is simple: Exar is stated to know these powers for fact. The same can not be said for Lumiya, and the aforementioned power. Try again.
Plus, Lumiya is a cyborg anyways. She can't generate lightning because of such, so you're right - it would be illogical to say she would use lightning. Hahaha! Note: You weren't actually right about your reasonings for her not throwing out a blast of lightning, just in case you misinterpret "you're right" as you actually being right.
QED.
Kill a thousand year old jedi? You mean Odan? I thought you said he killed odan with a wave of his hand? Clearly the comic showed us that exar used a simple push.
Originally posted by Advent
"A simple Force push"? Kadesh, the only person who was pushed was Exar Kun. Take another look at that scan, you blind bat:Where was Odan pushed? Oh? Lying now? By the way, you'll also notice that, in the bottom panel, his fingers are trying to clench the collar on his robe around his throat.
"Clearly"? Do these overstatements come free with every post?
By the way so what jack does it mean if that jedi had a thousand years of knowledge of the force, yoda had what 800 and he couldnt defeat ROTS sidious who was out of practice for 13 years
It's the fact that he was able to so casually defeat him, that's actually the impressive part. Seeing as Odan was powerful, it's only a testament to Exar's power. I love how you attempt to downplay, it's so cute.
And what about precognition?
What the hell does that have to with what I wrote? If you're trying to say that Count Dooku's precognition might help him defend against such things, I'd ask: what are you sticking up your ass? A tampon dipped in alchohol? Precognition won't help Tyranus against an attack of which you've yet to prove he even has a defense for.
Aleema was a weakling, and all it did was knock her out
Which wasn't really the point. She, however, actually had learned Sith magic, whereas Count Dooku has not, therefore it's likely to assume such magic would affect Dooku, and he couldn't block them.
Yea, when he has the entire dark side of yavin to back him up, the golden globe to fuel his powers, uh-huh
Really? That's funny, I don't recall the Golden Globe ever being mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy. Care to provide a specific quote(s)?
He drew power from the golden globe as a spirit and if you assume this is on yavin, exar does pretty much get powered up, But wait the golden globe powers up sith lords, not just one specific force user.
Really? That's funny, I don't recall the Golden Globe ever being mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy. Care to provide a specific quote(s)?
I discussed this with lightsnake
Wow, that means jack shit. Thanks for mentioning it!
But i do
But, I don't care seeing as what you think doesn't matter.
Because 1) he had the entire dark side on yavin2) he had the golden globe who could increase his powers alot 3) Sadly this only takes place on yavin
Really? That's funny, I don't recall the Golden Globe ever being mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy. Care to provide a specific quote(s)?
