Reality

René Descartes claimed "I think, therefore I am". He was trying to say that if you have the ability to think free will, you exist. But if there is a being out there that is powerful enough to imagine an entire universe worth of matter, is it not possible that the same being is powerful enough to create a false sense of free thinking and free will?

Originally posted by Darth Oblivion
René Descartes claimed "I think, therefore I am". He was trying to say that if you have the ability to think free will, you exist. But if there is a being out there that is powerful enough to imagine an entire universe worth of matter, is it not possible that the same being is powerful enough to create a false sense of free thinking and free will?

How do you come to this conclusion?

I have a lot of free time,lol. It does make sense if you think about it.

Originally posted by Darth Oblivion
I have a lot of free time,lol. It does make sense if you think about it.

The idea of free will from a "god" does not make sense to me. Help me to understand your point.

I don't think the possibility of a "being" creating a false sense of free will is very logical. Determinism explains the free will issue clearly. Like Shakyamunison said, help me understand your point.

Originally posted by Hydrono
I don't think the possibility of a "being" creating a false sense of free will is very logical. Determinism explains the free will issue clearly. Like Shakyamunison said, help me understand your point.

Darth Oblivion must have left the forum to do some research. 😆

"Je pense, donc je suis" indicates that it was impossible for Descartes to doubt that he existed. Even if there was a malin génie, his belief in his own existence would be secure, for how could he be deceived unless he existed in order to be deceived?

Originally posted by Darth Oblivion
René Descartes claimed "I think, therefore I am". He was trying to say that if you have the ability to think free will, you exist. But if there is a being out there that is powerful enough to imagine an entire universe worth of matter, is it not possible that the same being is powerful enough to create a false sense of free thinking and free will?

Secondly: a "false sense of free will"? This is what a determinist would propose, that free will is an illusion. But this could only be determined (pun intended) from a Godly POV.

Thirdly, by definition, an all-powerful being not only could create a false sense of free will, but a true sense as well. Both determinism and free will could co-exist, along with an infinite number of other things which, if attempted to be grasped by the limited human mind, would result in paradox (so for those of you who are now tempted to ask, "How could you have both free will and determinism?" I say, Nothing is impossible for God, and everything is impossible for God...sort of, the ultimate paradox. If this makes absolutely no sense to you, that's a good first step in the right direction 😈 ).

Reality is ultimately an ineffable experience, not a concept.

Originally posted by Mindship
First of all, Descartes was not making a comment about free will. He was trying to "whittle down" his reality to the one thing he could be sure of, and that was Doubt. Because he doubted, he knew he existed.

Secondly: a "false sense of free will"? This is what a determinist would propose, that free will is an illusion. But this could only be determined (pun intended) from a Godly POV.

Thirdly, by definition, an all-powerful being not only could create a false sense of free will, but a true sense as well. Both determinism and free will could co-exist, along with an infinite number of other things which, if attempted to be grasped by the limited human mind, would result in paradox (so for those of you who are now tempted to ask, "How could you have both free will and determinism?" I say, Nothing is impossible for God, and everything is impossible for God...sort of, the ultimate paradox. If this makes absolutely no sense to you, that's a good first step in the right direction 😈 ).

Reality is ultimately an ineffable experience, not a concept.

However, to date, there is not observed evidence for your paradoxes.

Reality is a concept. It is a false sense of existance imagined by either a person or something supernatural. Whether or not it is a god is not relevant, just the fact that it is possible for such a thing that can create this illusion of reality is also possible that it can create an illusion of free will. THAT is the basis for my theory.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, to date, there is not observed evidence for your paradoxes.

AFAIK, paradox is not an empirical phenomena but a conceptual one.

So, if a person does not "think to be" then they are not? Or is it then they think to be what they think? And who determines this? "To think" and there you are is a figure of speech/thought ..ie ego and though of being in existence here....

Oh and yes this being is if said to be the all can and is author of all free thinking false and not...........it would be the everything .......the every word and thought that would come out of anyone......and with that is the creation made over and over again.

I want some of what you're having.

Why do people say that?? 😑 😂
You said:

But if there is a being out there that is powerful enough to imagine an entire universe worth of matter, is it not possible that the same being is powerful enough to create a false sense of free thinking and free will?

I said yes......but IT may not be false as what we think it to be...It is only what is and what is is everything that can be thought...understand?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Why do people say that?? 😑 😂
You said:

But if there is a being out there that is powerful enough to imagine an entire universe worth of matter, is it not possible that the same being is powerful enough to create a false sense of free thinking and free will?

I said yes......but IT may not be false as what we think it to be...It is only what is and what is is everything that can be thought...understand?

OK 😂

I'm going to reference something and it might make it a little clearer. In Stephen King's books about the Dark Tower, the characters find out that what they thought was reality was nothing more than the imagined world of an author in another world. What I am saying is that maybe, just maybe, it is possible that our world is like that in the book. That what we think is reality is nothing more than than the imagined world of an "author" in another world.

I'd like to think not. It is possible that, yes, we have a destiny and everything we do, everything that happens to us is already set in stone. But is it possible that we are the ones that have carved that stone? We have a free will and we make our own decisions but we have made those decisions long before you encounter them.

Originally posted by Darth Oblivion
I'm going to reference something and it might make it a little clearer. In Stephen King's books about the Dark Tower, the characters find out that what they thought was reality was nothing more than the imagined world of an author in another world. What I am saying is that maybe, just maybe, it is possible that our world is like that in the book. That what we think is reality is nothing more than than the imagined world of an "author" in another world.

You know that every time you say that "God as Dreamer", I'm gonna say.. 😱