Originally posted by sexyking
Granted his feats were ridiculous theres no denying that but that was the character he was ridiculous, if he needed a certain power for a situation the writers would give it to him or make sure he was versatile enough for the needed feat.
Therein lies the point. PC SM was powerful because he was so plot deviced. The entire crisis was DC saving their characters. We are not referring to whether or not the writers would give PC SM some anti-tyrant powers or anything, but whether or not PC SM would be able tot ake on a skyfather without PIS. If we were counting on how writers would perceive a situation, SS would get whooped by SM in the comics, but that is not the way things are perceived around here, I gather.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Therein lies the point. PC SM was powerful because he was so plot deviced. The entire crisis was DC saving their characters. We are not referring to whether or not the writers would give PC SM some anti-tyrant powers or anything, but whether or not PC SM would be able tot ake on a skyfather without PIS. If we were counting on how writers would perceive a situation, SS would get whooped by SM in the comics, but that is not the way things are perceived around here, I gather.
No, he already had enough plot device powers and feats to do it. It's that simple.
Originally posted by By Crom!
No, he already had enough plot device powers and feats to do it. It's that simple.
I am hesitant to jump to those conclusions. T-vo is pretty much a PIS power which should never be counted in such debates. Not to mention that the power cosmic has been shown to be able to attune to SM's weaknesses. As well as the fact that the power cosmic has a whole array of abilities too.
Originally posted by Ouallada
I am hesitant to jump to those conclusions. T-vo is pretty much a PIS power which should never be counted in such debates. Not to mention that the power cosmic has been shown to be able to attune to SM's weaknesses. As well as the fact that the power cosmic has a whole array of abilities too.
It's part of his powerset of course it should be counted. Any used power should be counted.
Originally posted by Ouallada
If it is PIS should it still be counted?
T-vo is a power not PIS. IT's like saying a novel use of the power cosmic is PIS that's still pointless as this is pre crisis and he sneezes solar systems fall. He can alter reality and time travel at a whim etc. etc.
Originally posted by DevilGoblin
You can't be serious. Tyrant could erase almost all Dc Universe alone.He wins 1000/1000
Um, no, he couldn't and you base this on what. The thread says pre - crisis, tell me what you know of pre-crisis. 🙂
Originally posted by By Crom!
T-vo is a power not PIS. IT's like saying a novel use of the power cosmic is PIS that's still pointless as this is pre crisis and he sneezes solar systems fall. He can alter reality and time travel at a whim etc. etc.Um, no, he couldn't and you base this on what. The thread says pre - crisis, tell me what you know of pre-crisis. 🙂
Pre Crisis Superman could not beat the Savage Hulk, Tyrant is Galactus level, so are you saying the hulk is Tyrant/Galactus level ?
Originally posted by DevilGoblin
Pre Crisis Superman could not beat the Savage Hulk, Tyrant is Galactus level, so are you saying the hulk is Tyrant/Galactus level ?
lol
Pre Crisis Supes sneezed away solar systems, shredded the time barrier, altered reality. He was in the fifties capable of doing things even 60's and 70's Precrisis Supes could not do. So if we are using fifties pre-crisis Superman, damn straight, nothing could stop him.
🙂
Originally posted by DevilGoblin
Pre Crisis Superman could not beat the Savage Hulk, Tyrant is Galactus level, so are you saying the hulk is Tyrant/Galactus level ?
🙄 Hulk pounded on pre-cris superman chest still he calmed down, thats like a father letting his spoilt child vent at him and have his tantrum still he stopped crying.
Ohhhhhhhh boy hulk certainly showed him
Originally posted by sexyking
🙄 Hulk pounded on pre-cris superman chest still he calmed down, thats like a father letting his spoilt child vent at him and have his tantrum still he stopped crying.Ohhhhhhhh boy hulk certainly showed him
Indeed as I remember though he was thinking if he keeps getting stronger he might actually move me.
"T-vo is a power not PIS. IT's like saying a novel use of the power cosmic is PIS that's still pointless as this is pre crisis and he sneezes solar systems fall. He can alter reality and time travel at a whim etc. etc.
"
It is a power borne of PIS, but that is another matter for another day. PIS in that it was specifically to help SM take down threats he would not have normally, and even then it was not executed in a way that was believable.
Yup, a novel use of the power cosmic would be counted as PIS if it was obviously out of the power league of the user, or if it was so spiderman v firelord that it does not make sense. Novel uses of the PC like bringing happiness or control over energy, phasing etc are within the powerset of the heralds. If SS were to suddenly develop a technique that is blatantly obviously engineered jsut to give him the victory over a much more powerful being, that usage of the PC is borne of PIS.
Time travel etc are abilities the PC endows, and if herald levels are capable of such, what about a skyfather wielder of the PC? Add that to cosmic awareness and the ability to target superman's weaknesses and we have a very decent fight indeed.
PIS has a fine line to when its character development to just making crap up to move the story along, i say its a nice development to superman as everyone is too scared to mess with him at the moment, but they just didn't introduce the power correctly, so much so it was total PIS, i will agree but i would welcome if they give the power a regular showing and a good use of it not for just beating someone when he dont know what to do next lol
Originally posted by Ouallada
"T-vo is a power not PIS. IT's like saying a novel use of the power cosmic is PIS that's still pointless as this is pre crisis and he sneezes solar systems fall. He can alter reality and time travel at a whim etc. etc.
"It is a power borne of PIS, but that is another matter for another day. PIS in that it was specifically to help SM take down threats he would not have normally, and even then it was not executed in a way that was believable.
Yup, a novel use of the power cosmic would be counted as PIS if it was obviously out of the power league of the user, or if it was so spiderman v firelord that it does not make sense. Novel uses of the PC like bringing happiness or control over energy, phasing etc are within the powerset of the heralds. If SS were to suddenly develop a technique that is blatantly obviously engineered jsut to give him the victory over a much more powerful being, that usage of the PC is borne of PIS.
Time travel etc are abilities the PC endows, and if herald levels are capable of such, what about a skyfather wielder of the PC? Add that to cosmic awareness and the ability to target superman's weaknesses and we have a very decent fight indeed.
Good post, however we are talking precrisis Supes, I agree with you T-vo is not PIS as I stated earlier. The power cosmic though is so ill defined, Surfer for instance has actually created life on more than one occasion. None of that matters against 50's pre-crisis Supes though.
Originally posted by By Crom!
Good post, however we are talking precrisis Supes, I agree with you T-vo is not PIS as I stated earlier. The power cosmic though is so ill defined, Surfer for instance has actually created life on more than one occasion. None of that matters against 50's pre-crisis Supes though.
The difference is that Superman needed to win somehow, and T-Vo was simply the silver bullet that the writers decided to give him, and was borne of a plot necessity. The PC's more subtle uses are inspite of plot, and are not obviously contrived as silver bullets.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Pre-Crisis Superman destroyed a solar system with a sneeze.
In fact even normal Thanos can destroy a solar system just by pointing.
And De-powered Tyrant would kill Thanos like nothing.
If Thanos didn't have Tyrants enchantment ball he would be screwed.