Originally posted by chinabingI guess the Victorian Cross, Medal of Honour, Nobel Prize are all nothing then?
Told? Like the medals at the end of Ep IV? Like the glowball awards ceremony at the end of Ep I? Lucas loves ceremonies, I suggest you get used to it!
The point is, why the hell does a droid deserve a medal for doing what it's built for?
Originally posted by chinabing
Told? Like the medals at the end of Ep IV? Like the glowball awards ceremony at the end of Ep I? Lucas loves ceremonies, I suggest you get used to it!
Yeah, well at last in ANH we SAW he deserved it. Here special efforts of R2 in ANH alone:
- convinces 3PO to come along in the escape pod
- chooses his own way on Tatooine
- bs's his was out of showing the hologram to Luke
- escapes to find OB1
- expands on his own initiative his computer search on the Death Star to find the Princess
- saves the day by shutting down the grabage compactors
- goes out in the battle of the Death Star and gets shot doing it
Now, THAT droid is to be commended. Not the one that just does his job as ordered.
Tough bananas, R2 is a hero in Ep I. If you don't agree, screaming about it can't help you.
And 'jever think that maybe R2 grew into the hero role? He started out small, by saving the shields on the Queen's ship, then grows and grows as the series rolls on.
Perhaps fixing shields isn't a part of what a little astro droid is supposed to do. That's why Rik Olie was so shocked, and why the queen gave him a medal
I don't really know what specific duties droids can do on a ship except locking down stabilizers and turning off autopilots and firing up converters, which are all just cool-sounding technobabble to fill time when you think about it.
Originally posted by chinabingHeed your own advice. He is artificial intelligence designed with the intention of repairing and maintaining a ship. If he had not fixed the shields, but had not been destroyed, would you say he was afraid, or a jerk? Such are the signs of sentients. Sentients are the ones who deserve medals, living beings, capable of failing or succeeding spectacularly. Droids are told to do something and they do it, if they don't they're AWOL. Would you award a Wal-Mart employee for doing his job?
Tough bananas, R2 is a hero in Ep I. If you don't agree, screaming about it can't help you.
If it was Anakin, or Jar Jar, or Wicket who had fixed the shields, by all means, give the living beings a medal, but giving a computerized robot a reward for performing its designated functions is simply moronic.
Originally posted by chinabing
Tough bananas, R2 is a hero in Ep I. If you don't agree, screaming about it can't help you.And 'jever think that maybe R2 grew into the hero role? He started out small, by saving the shields on the Queen's ship, then grows and grows as the series rolls on.
Perhaps fixing shields isn't a part of what a little astro droid is supposed to do. That's why Rik Olie was so shocked, and why the queen gave him a medal
I don't really know what specific duties droids can do on a ship except locking down stabilizers and turning off autopilots and firing up converters, which are all just cool-sounding technobabble to fill time when you think about it.
Of course fixing things is why you have astro droids on board. Did you think that lift to the roof was there by accident or may it have been installed there specifically for astromechs to do necessary repairs.
And if het GREW into the role of hero, why TF did they give him a medal: the most promising astrodroid in the future role of hero?
Point is, R2 is a hero to me. I just feel the PT does not do him credit. He seems to be tehre for decoration (and/or merchandising) purposes only. The whole first action in TPM stresses that!
Originally posted by queeq
Of course fixing things is why you have astro droids on board. Did you think that lift to the roof was there by accident or may it have been installed there specifically for astromechs to do necessary repairs.And if het GREW into the role of hero, why TF did they give him a medal: the most promising astrodroid in the future role of hero?
Point is, R2 is a hero to me. I just feel the PT does not do him credit. He seems to be tehre for decoration (and/or merchandising) purposes only. The whole first action in TPM stresses that!
Sure, fixing "things" is what astrodroids do. I said "fixing shields." Bit of a difference. For all we know droids can't fix shields, and in fact, the reaction of Olie, the queen, etc, makes one think that they don't fix 'em! It is only logical. R2 fixes 'em and ta-da! Commendation.
R2 is a hero, but where was he on Death Star II? How come he didn't zap the emperor? R2 was zapped by Vader in the trench, and didn't help Luke one bit after he was knocked unconscious? R2's a hero, but not as much as Luke & eventually Vader.
Originally posted by chinabingWhat is this?
Sure, fixing "things" is what astrodroids do. I said "fixing shields." Bit of a difference. For all we know droids can't fix shields, and in fact, the reaction of Olie, the queen, etc, makes one think that they don't fix 'em! It is only logical. R2 fixes 'em and ta-da! Commendation.R2 is a hero, but where was he on Death Star II? How come he didn't zap the emperor? R2 was zapped by Vader in the trench, and didn't help Luke one bit after he was knocked unconscious? R2's a hero, but not as much as Luke & eventually Vader.
"For all we know droids can't fix shields." WTF?
So that turbolift was there for no reason? That control panel for the shields was there by coincidence? That camera just happened to be pointing right at said location?
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah.............. sure.
Hope you receive the Nobel Prize for Advancement in Humanity or w/e due to your continuing contributions for going to work everyday.
Originally posted by Tangible God
What is this?"For all we know droids can't fix shields." WTF?
So that turbolift was there for no reason? That control panel for the shields was there by coincidence? That camera just happened to be pointing right at said location?
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah.............. sure.
Hope you receive the Nobel Prize for Advancement in Humanity or w/e due to your continuing contributions for going to work everyday.
All right, why not knock off the personal attacks and stick to the substance of the post.
That's right, we don't know if droids can fix shields. Ever seen it done, specifically, in the OT?
OK, say that droids CAN fix shields, I'm not saying it's out of the bounds of possibilities. Maybe it takes 3 or 4 droids to fix shields, all doing separate items on a checklist. Maybe R2 went up there and put the little wire in by cross-hatching and hot-wiring something, doing the work of 2 or 3 other droids.
I don't know, and neither do you.
But what we DO know is:
a. Ric Olie's shocked "That little droid did it!"
b. Panaka's "Without a doubt, it saved the ship."
c. The queen's "It is to be commended."
Just because you think it did nothing special doesn't make it true. The characters obviously thought R2 did, as written.
Of course the turbo lift was there for a reason. The control panel was there for a reason. And the camera was put there by Mr. Lucas, for crying out loud, so we could see what happened in his movie.
Originally posted by chinabingSo why do you presume if you say we shouldn't?
I don't know, and neither do you.
a. Ric Olie's shocked "That little droid did it!"a.) Have you ruled out simple glee at the fact he wasn't going to die?
b. Panaka's "Without a doubt, it saved the ship."
c. The queen's "It is to be commended."
b.) I'm promoting him to Colonel Obvious. Hell we should bow to his other insightful little piece: "We have no army." Reeeeallly?
c.) Isn't her little commendation scene what we're arguing? It was unnecessary and shows that she's either a simple creature herself (unlikely) or being paid by her producers to say those useless lines.
Just because you think it did nothing special doesn't make it true. The characters obviously thought R2 did, as written.Heed your own advice. And these characters, despite Amidala would be? And don't give me Olie's line again, I've already explained it.
Of course the turbo lift was there for a reason. The control panel was there for a reason. And the camera was put there by Mr. Lucas, for crying out loud, so we could see what happened in his movie.Which frankly explains why this entire argument is useless, it's a movie. WTF are we doing here on the internet talking about it then?
Originally posted by queeq'Blaming Lucas' is the tired argument of a typical prequel-hater.
I'm not blaming R2. I'm blaming Lucas. And he also wrote those stupid lines about R2 fixing the ship as one would expect from an astromech. Lucas ruined R2.
Again I ask, why were Olie, Panaka & the queen so shocked & amazed that lil' R2 fixed the shields and saved the ship?
Because droids don't do kinds of things like saving the ship!
That scene in TPM was the first instance of the heroic R2. Heck, we hardly knew he was there until he started saving things, he was just one of the "boyos" in the quiver.
Originally posted by Tangible God
[B]So why do you presume if you say we shouldn't? ]
a.) Have you ruled out simple glee at the fact he wasn't going to die?
Glee? No. Shock and a feeling of amazment, yes. Glee is almost insipid happiness, and Olie was shocked and amazed.
b.) I'm promoting him to Colonel Obvious. Hell we should bow to his other insightful little piece: "We have no army." Reeeeallly?
Ever heard about a little something called "establishing" dialogue? Happens in sequels all the time, so the viewer who didn't see episode A wouldn't feel completely lost watching episode B. Example: In ROTS, Anakin says "I'm tired of all this deception, I don't care if they know we're married." Now the non-viewers of AotC are up to speed on the whole relationship-thing.
Panaka's line is a pretty valid line.
c.) Isn't her little commendation scene what we're arguing? It was unnecessary and shows that she's either a simple creature herself (unlikely) or being paid by her producers to say those useless lines.
No, the argument is if R2 is a hero in the PT, and some have argued he's not. I say in R2's first scene he saves the ship, what more do you want?
The whole commendation thing establishes the link between Padme & R2. The whole relationship had to start somewhere; saving the ship ain't too bad a way to do it. The actress of course is paid by the producers, I don't expect she works for free... but I don't know why you would bring that up because the actress and the character are different. (At least I'd hoped you'd know the difference!)
Heed your own advice. And these characters, despite Amidala would be? And don't give me Olie's line again, I've already explained it.
Fact is, I know and everyone else who saw TPM knows that R2 saved the ship. What he "just doin' his job?" Well, that's what they say to Firemen who run into burning buildings too. Can you be just doin' your job and be heroic? Yes, but R2 did something so shocking and amazing, the human characters were standing there like slack-jawed gawkers! Olie's line is just a part of the manifold confirmation that R2 acted heroicly.
I suggest you argue your points within the boundaries of the film we see, not what you want to see. Arguing that Lucas is "stoopid" and that his writing those lines "sux," well, fasten your seatbelts, I'll alert the media!
Originally posted by chinabingOlie was happy they were alive, so excitement and surprise found its way into his tone. Would happen to anyone.
I'm saying we don't know what droids can do. I've yet to see a laundry list of all the times in the OT where R2 fixed shields, I guess I'll wait a little longer.Glee? No. Shock and a feeling of amazment, yes. Glee is almost insipid happiness, and Olie was shocked and amazed.
Ever heard about a little something called "establishing" dialogue? Happens in sequels all the time, so the viewer who didn't see episode A wouldn't feel completely lost watching episode B. Example: In ROTS, Anakin says "I'm tired of all this deception, I don't care if they know we're married." Now the non-viewers of AotC are up to speed on the whole relationship-thing.
Panaka's line is a pretty valid line.
No, the argument is if R2 is a hero in the PT, and some have argued he's not. I say in R2's first scene he saves the ship, what more do you want?
The whole commendation thing establishes the link between Padme & R2. The whole relationship had to start somewhere; saving the ship ain't too bad a way to do it. The actress of course is paid by the producers, I don't expect she works for free... but I don't know why you would bring that up because the actress and the character are different. (At least I'd hoped you'd know the difference!)
Fact is, I know and everyone else who saw TPM knows that R2 saved the ship. What he "just doin' his job?" Well, that's what they say to Firemen who run into burning buildings too. Can you be just doin' your job and be heroic? Yes, but R2 did something so shocking and amazing, the human characters were standing there like slack-jawed gawkers! Olie's line is just a part of the manifold confirmation that R2 acted heroicly.
I suggest you argue your points within the boundaries of the film we see, not what you want to see. Arguing that Lucas is "stoopid" and that his writing those lines "sux," well, fasten your seatbelts, I'll alert the media!
Panaka's line was valid, obvious and and irrelevant to this argument.
R2 is a hero in the OT and and in AOTC at least for the PT. He saved that ship and everyone on board, BUT, he did so since it was what he was programmed to do. And while that argument can be applied to soldiers on the front line, R2 was, is and always will be, artificial intelligence. Commending him for acts of bravery and innovation would be justified, as can be seen in the OT. But for doing his job and nothing more? No.
Why WERE they shocked and amazed? Good question, I can't understand WHY they said that. That is the whole poitn here: there is no reason for them to be so shocked. Please let us in on the secret, George, we as an audience want to participate in what's going on...
Establishing dialogue???? Is taht a neat word for easy writing??? When anyone would say without any emotion: I love you. Waht does that tell you? That this person ACTUALLY REALLY loves that person or that he's lying? You'd call that establishing dialogue (if he say he loves her, then he does) but if you don't really get it... it's worthless. Like the commendation scene with R2. It may have been great but why didn't we see its greatness???