Originally posted by Soljer
And the fact that Thanos can run at warp speed.
Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7Hulk was also a 6 in strength. Apocalypse was an 8 in strength in the same one(the highest in that card thing).
Or that Dr.Strange is a 7 in speed??
Originally posted by TheEvilHex
ok my bad for mentioning the marvel power grid i never took the time to look them all over. I will never bring up the suck ass grid again.
There are two main problems I have with the 'power grid' system. The first has already been touched on by several people here, namely the inconsistencies and stark divergences from what comic books show. This is probably because it is VERY hard to make a rating system that can effectively, and objectively, capture the powersets of a wide array of characters and distill all of that into a simple ordinal scale. It is simply not possible. Furthermore, even if we were to not look at the Marvel Universe as a whole, and just concentrate on a far smaller team (say just the X-men) even then it would be hard to arrive at an ordinal/interval scale is equitable.
The second (and major) problem I have with Marvel scale ratings is that people always try to use them when comparing a Marvel character against a DC character. That is a one-way ticket to missing the mark! The reason is that for the most part DC characters operate at a different intensity from Marvel characters, whereby even non top-tier DC characters can have powers that match some top-tier Marvel characters. Thus using scales for comparison purposes isn't exactly an exercise in prudence.
A case example: Take Aquaman from DC and Colossus from Marvel. Now, Colossus is going to have high strength ratings in any of the various Marvel scales. Now, look at Aquaman. Most people who are primarily Marvel fans would automatically dismiss him in the strength deparment. Thing is that Aquaman is exceedingly strong ....one showing had him supporting a city block. The weight being lifted would automatically place him far above the typical '100 ton' rating used by Marvel.
Simply put, using Marvel ratings to rate DC characters (eg using some Marvel character's high ratings to show that he/she/it can defeat a top-tier DC character, for example saying that ' Iron Man is a 5 a 6 a 7 etc and thus he can beat the Martian Manhunter'😉 is simply not an effective way of looking at things. Particularly when MM has been shown helping to move the Moon (twice), and doing other feats of strength - speed - telepathy - and his various other skills.
Simply put Martian Manhunter can defeat Iron Man without any problems whatsoever. The two are not even mildly comparable.
One is a very powerful superhero, the other might as well be a god!
Originally posted by Draco69
Actually, he can. Fires his Martian Vision. Use his telepathy. Render himself both invisible and intangible. Make multiple clones of himself.Or just his supersonic superspeed while both invisible and intangible to rip Tony's still beating heart out.
i was going to say MM anyway, i think he´s too much to iron man.
But MKM can create clones of himself? didn´t knew about this.
spetznaz, you're about right on the money there.
Sad part is I actually really like the concept of the power grid system, think its a great idea. Now if they could just find a way to get it to work properly then we may have something, but until then, nope! Great idea, just doesn't ever seem to come out right.
Originally posted by Psyquis52
I'd say MM wins this, but it's by no means easy for him.
There are several reasons why MM would win, and win easily. A simple way of showing them is as follows:
a) Strength: The two are not even comparable on any level. The M. Mhunter is basically on a near-planetary mover class, and definitely a tectonic plate mover. He is one of the strongest JLAers, and simply put Stark cannot hope to match him in that department. Also note that this strength can be used in interesting ways (primarily due to his shapeshifting abilities), leading to utilization scenarios that even Superman couldn't come close to.
b) Speed: Once again Stark is left behind here. The Extremis suit might be fast, but you are not going to use suit speed against someone who is at JLA level superspeed (note: that is quite different from Quicksilver type 'speed' .....we are talking about uber velocity here).
c) Someone mentioned that the extremis suit has superior detection power and can detect a blitz. Well, so does Jjon. He can keep up with several flashes. Meaning: He is not getting surprised.
d) Telepathy: Not just able to affect organics but also sentient synthetics. Guess what the Extremis armor is? Furthermore, even if he decides to NOT use his telepathy as an offensive weapon (and if he did it would be a major killer), it would still provide him with a very effective defensive warning capablity.
e) Offensive flexibility: This is a being that can fire heat blasts while being invisible and intangible, and having created offshoots of itself. Stark wouldn't be fighting against ONE MM ....look at the (several) cases where MM takes on the JLA all by himself (note: I am not talking about Fernus, since that would be making overkill into even greater overkill).
f) Level of invulnerability: The only sure-shot way that Tony would be able to harm Jjon (assuming the match lasts that long) is if he decides to use his fear of psyche-scouring flame against him. This would mean that Stark would have to turn evil and, say, torch some poor folk inside their homes. Now, the only problem with that scenario is that it would mean that Stark turns evil (while KMC matches are supposed to be bloodlust imbued, they do not mean that a character changes his personality. In a fight Black Adam may hurl hapless humans at Superman, but Superman wouldn't do the same to Black Adam. Tony isn't setting fire to peoples' homes). Furthermore, it wouldn't be just one home ....you need at least a village of some size otherwise MM would simply get out of the area.
g) Experience: Stark has a lot of combat experience. However Martians 'inherit' the experiences of the martians before them. Jjon literally has experience (eg in telepathy) going back ages. He would have some nasty surprises for Stark.
h) Extensity/Intensity of abilities: The thing is MM is basically a one-man JLA team (the only one who can say the same is a Green Lantern who is being written by a writer that freakin' KNOWS what a GL is TRULY capable of). Basically what you have is the entire JLA team distilled into one being (the only deficiency being the magical members of the JLA since jjon doesn't have eldritch abilities). These powers are also at a high intensity level (eg he almost has the same physical abilities as Superman, almost has the same shapeshifting ability as Plastic Man, has speed/strength/resilience levels that are close, in one way or another, to the best in the JLa, and has one of the most formidable telepathic abilities around). His adeptness at using these abilities is also quite key .....he is an artiste.
i) Past showings. While the Extremis armor has created quite a stir, the level of showings are not yet deep enough (primarily because it came out relatively recently). However Jjon has been around long enough to have a wealth of scans showing different scenarios and situations, and many of them have been very very high. While other JLA members have had far higher showings (eg when Superman REALLY wants to do something he has been written as moving worlds, - eg Post Crisis, not Pre, moving War World or starting the engine etc, or the Flash pulling one of his Deus ex machina stunts, or WonderWoman showing Superman who is boss, or even Kyle holding the power of an exploding star as a freakin' rookie!!!!). However, in general, Martian manhunter has always had a relatively high, and long, record of feats. While it is not often he goes all out (eg like he did in the whole Fernus arc) his feats are always very very high. The only other JLA character who ALWAYS has high feats, and seldom if ever low ones, is Batman.
Anyways, MM simply is beyond Iron Man.
An even simpler (and FAR shorter) way of thinking about this is as follows:
I)
IMAGINE A THREAD THAT HAS EXTREMIS IRON MAN FACING OFF AGAINST SUPERMAN.
II)
NOW, IMAGINE THAT SUPERMAN IS NOT ONLY BLOODLUSTED (AS KMC FIGHTS SHOULD BE) BUT HE IS SO IN A WAY SIMILAR TO WHAT BLACK ADAM OR MR. MAJESTIC WOULD BE.
III)
NOW, GIVE THAT SUPERMAN AROUND 4-5 EXTRA POWERS (EG HIGH-ORDER TELEPATHY, PHASING ABILITY, INVISIBILITY, HIGH-ORDER SHAPESHIFTING, SIZE INCREASE, AND BODY MORPHING, AND A SPECIES MEMORY THAT SPANS GENERATIONS).
IV)
NOW, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A FIGHT BETWEEN IRON MAN AND THE MARTIAN MANHUNTER.