not an odinforce per se, but he is widely considered to be odin's equal in power, though his feats don't necessarily match up.
someone earlier asked if odin can't amp himself instantly to surpass hulk. i don't know -- he never HAS, but that doesn't mean he never CAN, i suppose. i like the mangog analogy though. mangog increases based on absorbing hate. hulk also amps in a similar way. i could ask why couldn't odin simply amp immediately to a level where he just beats down mangog? maybe he can't . . .? 😬 he beat mangog by cutting mangog off from the source of his power -- essentially he made it impossible for mangog to continue amping.
in THIS fight he has no such recourse and must fight purely h2h . . .
Originally posted by leonidasBut they amped off different things. Mangog absorbs the hate around him so essentially he was feeding of the God's themselves so that would mean that he probably was getting stronger absed on the God's power level. even if he wasn't directly tapping into their power his amplifier was in for abundance at the time.
not an odinforce per se, but he is widely considered to be odin's equal in power, though his feats don't necessarily match up.someone earlier asked if odin can't amp himself instantly to surpass hulk. i don't know -- he never HAS, but that doesn't mean he never CAN, i suppose. i like the mangog analogy though. mangog increases based on absorbing hate. hulk also amps in a similar way. i could ask why couldn't odin simply amp immediately to a level where he just beats down mangog? maybe he can't . . .? 😬 he beat mangog by cutting mangog off from the source of his power -- essentially he made it impossible for mangog to continue amping.
in THIS fight he has no such recourse and must fight purely h2h . . .
As for Hulk he can get pretty strong pretty fast but nothing that is completely over the top. Most of his top end feats are long after he had transformed and had plenty of time to get very angry.
Odin on the other hand has shown vast power levels and the ability to use them quickly. If he can amp like with Surter then he should be able to summon much more force then Hulk can seeing as Odin's is based solely of will and want while Hulk's based on one emotion.
oh, as one further comparison:
a relatively weak team of avengers (with an injured thor) engaged at length and actually harmed zeus before he unleashed a massive bolt of power to defeat them. a DOUBLE team of avengers (east and west coast) physically battled a totally crazed hulk for nearly 2 full books before they finally worked together to put him down.
i wonder how zeus would have done against that double team if he could ONLY have used brute force instead of power. for that matter, i wonder how long it would have taken him to beat the SINGLE avengers teams using JUST brute force. 😬
Originally posted by leonidasHard to say
oh, as one further comparison:a relatively weak team of avengers (with an injured thor) engaged at length and actually harmed zeus before he unleashed a massive bolt of power to defeat them. a DOUBLE team of avengers (east and west coast) physically battled a totally crazed hulk for nearly 2 full books before they finally worked together to put him down.
i wonder how zeus would have done against that double team if he could ONLY have used brute force instead of power. for that matter, i wonder how long it would have taken him to beat the SINGLE avengers teams using JUST brute force. 😬
Which brings up back my own point. That team was completely unable to actually harm Zeus. If that team couldn't do it why would Hulk be able to hurt a Skyfather in Odin.
Originally posted by Newjak
But they amped off different things. Mangog absorbs the hate around him so essentially he was feeding of the God's themselves so that would mean that he probably was getting stronger absed on the God's power level. even if he wasn't directly tapping into their power his amplifier was in for abundance at the time.As for Hulk he can get pretty strong pretty fast but nothing that is completely over the top. Most of his top end feats are long after he had transformed and had plenty of time to get very angry.
that's a misconception. hulk can amp ENORMOUSLY quickly. take the anti-matter instance. he would have had to increase his strength almost infinitely as soon as he stepped in-between the spheres. there are plenty of other examples. AND he comes INTO this fight enraged and capable fo of STILL increasing. there is no basis on which to say that a god's 'hate' is anything more than a normal persons . . .
both mangog and hulk draw from deep reserves. it's hard to say which reserve is deeper, imo.
Odin on the other hand has shown vast power levels and the ability to use them quickly. If he can amp like with Surter then he should be able to summon much more force then Hulk can seeing as Odin's is based solely of will and want while Hulk's based on one emotion.
and again i'll say -- make hulk 1000 ft tall and pout him in a strength contest with surtur . . .
will vs instinctual emotion is another amorphous comparison. too hard to quantify or speak definitively about. and seems to go against what you said earlier. mangog ALSO amps based on one emotion, ala hulk. but he was able to instill fear in odin . . .
it gets down to one simple fact:
--odin's power is said to be 'limitless' (it's not.)
--hulk's ability to draw strength from some other . . . place is said to be limitless. (it's not)
whose reserve is theoretically greater? before you jump in and scream spite, look at the respect thread for hulk. dimensiona shaking strength, performing physical impossibilities . . .
i don't think the answer is as clear-cut as so many think it is.
Originally posted by Newjak
Hard to say
That moment truely was a low showing for Skyfathers. Although at the end of it Zeus was unharmed and had everyone pretty much eating through a straw.Which brings up back my own point. That team was completely unable to actually harm Zeus. If that team couldn't do it why would Hulk be able to hurt a Skyfather in Odin.
they DID hurt him. zeus himself says he has never been so humbled. thor says marvel hurt him more than any mortal ever had.
a healthy thor fought zeus for a LONG time 1on1. zeus said not all the titans in ages past together provided such a challenge. hulk has fought thor to a standstill. in purely h2h combat hulk has whooped thor.
i know it's an alternate future, but an enraged herc DID put down zeus with overwhelming physical force. i don't think it impossible to see the same thing happen to odin IF enough force could be applied or IF odin's power can be tapped out.
oh, and juggs -- most think hulk can't be beaten in these types of fights because it almost NEVER happens.
serisously. in 40+ years. ALMOST. NEVER. (referring to savge hulk in slugfests only. of course he's been beaten but almost always involving power or in a different incarnation.)
make a list of times savage has been ko'd by PURELY PHYSICAL force for those who don't believe. 😉
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Why do most of the people think that Hulk can't be beaten in a slugfest?
Because his physical strenght is actually without limit. In a standard slugfest he would never lose IMO. But Odin has access to a limitless amount of power and I think his AmpRate is better than Hulk's.
Originally posted by leonidas
that's a misconception. hulk can amp ENORMOUSLY quickly. take the anti-matter instance. he would have had to increase his strength almost infinitely as soon as he stepped in-between the spheres. there are plenty of other examples. AND he comes INTO this fight enraged and capable fo of STILL increasing. there is no basis on which to say that a god's 'hate' is anything more than a normal persons . . .both mangog and hulk draw from deep reserves. it's hard to say which reserve is deeper, imo.
and again i'll say -- make hulk 1000 ft tall and pout him in a strength contest with surtur . . .
will vs instinctual emotion is another amorphous comparison. too hard to quantify or speak definitively about. and seems to go against what you said earlier. mangog ALSO amps based on one emotion, ala hulk. but he was able to instill fear in odin . . .
it gets down to one simple fact:
--odin's power is said to be 'limitless' (it's not.)
--hulk's ability to draw strength from some other . . . place is said to be limitless. (it's not)whose reserve is theoretically greater? before you jump in and scream spite, look at the respect thread for hulk. dimensiona shaking strength, performing physical impossibilities . . .
i don't think the answer is as clear-cut as so many think it is.
Hulk has to rely solely on his own emotion to get the job done.
Perhapd with my talk of Odin was unclear. I didn't mean to say Odin's will what I was trying to get at is this. Odin always seems to have access to his higher up power. It doesn't seem like he has to actually amp himself up. He just seems to do what he wants at the time. Like with Mangog he may have been afraid but in the end he did what he wanted that was cut off Mangog's powers. Thus his power was enough in the end to make Mangog helpless. So at that time Odin's power greater than Mangog's power to make himself stronger. Odin should be able to turn that kind of power into high end strength at any point.
It doesn't matter how fast Hulk can amp up. His feats while good aren't completely without some other mentions. Juggernaut at his best was tearing through Deminsions. Hulk was loosing the battle with the sphere it took him awhile before he amped himself up to push them apart.
So while theoritcally Hulk may be able to win the fact is amping vs the power to instantly be at those levels is completely a mismatch.
It is clear that Odin's strength without his powers are 75-90tons.
It is defined by Stan Lee and other writers. As well as the strength of an average male of the Asgardian race (30tons). Thor is hybrid (his mother was Gaia) and thus is not a pure Asgardian (like Odin is).
Also,
Mjlonir weighs about 40lbs. Zues is either worthy to lift the hammer (he is a Skyfather) or he has similar powers of Odin (I read his bio in OHOTMU and he does-he taps into the same cosmic resources Odin does) and in turn can effect the enchantment of Mjolnir. He just uses his power primarily for force bolts though. Thus what Zues did had nothing to do with his strength. OHOTMU also lists his strength between 75-90tons as well. I think many are too use to seeing Odin with his powers.
Just imagine a pure Asgardian man (a semistrong brick) going up against the Hulk. It would be a massacre. Odin will only make it interesting for a small moment.
Originally posted by roughrider
Thanos has wiped his backside with the Hulk so many times... 😉
not in this type of battle he hasn't, nor has he ever faced off against an enraged hulk before, though he DID liken the thought to battling champ with a gem, a fight he won NOT through physical means, but by being clever. he never DID defeat champ, though his goal was accomplished noetheless.
and nj -- your opinion is completely valid. perhaps odin CAN instantly amp to a level where he could one-shot even an enraged hulk. it's never happened is all i'm saying. 😉
Originally posted by leonidasAnd your point is Valid as well
not in this type of battle he hasn't, nor has he ever faced off against an enraged hulk before, though he DID liken the thought to battling champ with a gem, a fight he won NOT through physical means, but by being clever. he never DID defeat champ, though his goal was accomplished noetheless.and nj -- your opinion is completely valid. perhaps odin CAN instantly amp to a level where he could one-shot even an enraged hulk. it's never happened is all i'm saying. 😉
But then again Hulk has never fought a Skyfather and he has been stalemated by lower level beings.