Dooku, Sidious vs Obi, Mace, Kit

I already said that Anakin is better then Dooku in lightsaber and he didn't won just because of his form, he won because of his superior
skill.Because he has the strongest to the Force and he mastered the lightsaber he can channel his connection to the force in his fights with lightsaber, thats why he is the best lightsaber dualist in the PT, maybe even ever up that point.
I know it was said that Mace has the deadliest form, but that doesn't automatically make him the best, you wouldn't say he could defeat Yoda, now would you.

You missed my point. The point is Dooku's form and it's description as the "ultimate refinement...lightsaber to lightsaber combat..." whatever, was said BEFORE Mace's form was created, meaning that had Vaapad/Shatterpoint existed then, then it could have been considered the ultimate refinement blah blah blah...

get what I'm saying now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#Types

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php

Here all 7 forms are known, including Vaapad and it still says Makashi is best lightsaber to lightsaber. I think it doesn't depend so much on the form, but the practitioner who is using it.
Didn't Mace have Shatterpoint, when he was a child.

Uh-oh, some websites say Makashi is best. I hope it isn't wikipedia or something, which anyone can edit and put down their own "explanations."

Lolz, Plo Spoon livesd in the backyard of me!

Originally posted by Count Makashi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#Types

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php

Here all 7 forms are known, including Vaapad and it still says Makashi is best lightsaber to lightsaber. I think it doesn't depend so much on the form, but the practitioner who is using it.
Didn't Mace have Shatterpoint, when he was a child.

Makashi is the best lightsaber-to-lightsaber fighting form, but Vaapad is the deadliest and is the hardest lightsaber form to master. It has innate properties to be used against dark side users - which Count Dooku is - and thus coupled with Mace's shatterpoint gives him two distinct advantages over Dooku.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Its arguable that Mace is overall better then Sidious with a lightsaber. Mace can beat Sidious because of his style and the fact that Sidious is a darksider (which Mace is THE perfect person for fighting them). And Mace has his Shatterpoint ability, all of these lead to Sidious' defeat in saber combat against Mace, but overall (i.e. against other people) I don't think that Mace is a better saber duelist then Sidious, merely that he has all the weapons to fight darksiders. For instance, Anakin has a VERY VERY good chance of taking Mace in saber combat (before he becomes Vader), probably better then Sidious ever had against him. Plus, they're saber duel was not pwnage from Mace, Mace was sh!tting bricks for a bit, and the duel was close, despite all of Mace's weapons against darksiders. People who don't have those weapons would get "Kit Fisto-ed" by Sidious, who is still possibly a better saber duelist overall.

I agree mostly. In ROTS, they were even blade for blade, until Mace found his shatterpoint. Them being even, though, accounts for Vaapads prowess against darksiders. Without the specific advantage of Vaapad, perhaps Sidious would be marginally better (even with Shatterpoint, an edge Mace has over everyone). I say that because, given Kit, Agen, and to a lesser extent Seasse's reputations, I don't think Mace could beat them as easily as Sidious did.

A more extreme example of the point you're trying to illustrate would be Anakin and Obi Wan. Anakin, strength for strength, trumps Obi Wan (although, Obi is still a forced to be reckoned with). If you were to get into a fight, you would want Anakin to back you up, not Obi Wan. However, against each other, due to specific advantages for Obi Wan, they are about even, and Obi Wan would even win in most situations.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You missed my point. The point is Dooku's form and it's description as the "ultimate refinement...lightsaber to lightsaber combat..." whatever, was said BEFORE Mace's form was created, meaning that had Vaapad/Shatterpoint existed then, then it could have been considered the ultimate refinement blah blah blah...

get what I'm saying now?

Hey moron, you're wrong. That was said about Makashi in an out of story article, at a point where Vaapad had already been established.

article?

Insider magazine #2, under the lightsaber form article.

oh, for some reason the way Ox always presented it, it seemed like something that Dooku had said himself, or at least like an in-universe description.

No worries, and no hard feelings about the hostility in the other thread, lol.

As for the fight, Dooku and Sidious should take it.

Makashi is probably the best lightsaber to lightsaber, Vaapad is probably the best overall, because Makashi isn't good against blaster fire.

Actually, I haven't heard where Makashi is bad against blaster fire. I thought that was just KOTOR's way of evening out all the saber forms. Think about it, all the jedi still know form 1, and all have pre-cog, so I don't see why it should be bad against blasters, might not be as good as other forms, but in no way bad...

All good, just caught me on a bad day. And for the record, I'm 26, lol. there's not many people here who are half my age! lol

Originally posted by kamikz
Actually, I haven't heard where Makashi is bad against blaster fire. I thought that was just KOTOR's way of evening out all the saber forms. Think about it, all the jedi still know form 1, and all have pre-cog, so I don't see why it should be bad against blasters, might not be as good as other forms, but in no way bad...

Maybe its not bad, but its probably the least good against blaster fire, because its being trained strictly lightsaber to lightsaber. It said that the Jedi abandoned Makashi trough centuries in time to PT, because others forms are better against blaster fire, but it probably depends more on a user, how god he is.

Yeah, that was my point, that it wasn't bad, but not nearly the best, probably the least suited one.

actaully mace windu is the grand master of every light saber style meaning he is supose to be the msot skilled light saber fighter all around as well as with every style.

Originally posted by kamikz
Lolz, Plo Spoon livesd in the backyard of me!

Originally posted by capt it up
actaully mace windu is the grand master of every light saber style meaning he is supose to be the msot skilled light saber fighter all around as well as with every style.

Damn gay!

(And for those who didn't get the joke, it's a play on "Damn straight" :/ )