Originally posted by Scoobless
Nope, I was just pointing out that you were wrong, even going so far to show scans of the issue you were referring to, yet you still refuse to accept it.
I said dp ran away after he found out Logan healing factor was working. which is what happen...........which is what your scann showed.
Originally posted by Scoobless
But yeah, Spider-Man is faster than Sabretooth (not that that has anything to do with this thread)
spiderman has not even proven to be faster then wolverien let a lone sabertooth.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Agreed. However I think DP wins but some of the arguments being used by Wolverine fans are illogical.
Oh, I acknowledge that DP CAN beat Wolverine and should a good portion of the same time. Heck, I don't like the way that EITHER character was treated by Daniel Way. I mean, you don't need to read Deadpool to know that he has better fighting skills than he showed in Origins. Also, Wolverine makes better use of his skill than Daniel Way writes. I think both characters were portrayed very poorly.
Now, if these two were to go head to head in hand to hand, they would be evenly matched. Now I'm talking fists here. If you bring bladed weapons into it, then again, I think they are evenly matched. Regardless of healing factor, both characters are still vulnerable to attacks and can be hurt. Now if DP was smart and really wanted to win, he could just use mustard gas grenades which would bother Logan especially because of his enhanced smell and taste. This would leave him open to put Wolverine down for the count. Now if Logan were smart, he would realize that he likely needs more than just his claws to take DP down if DP is going to utilize all of his arsenal. I imagine that potentially both of them have virtually unlimited access to the weapons they would need.
Basically, what I'm saying is that Wolverine is much more than just claws and brawn. I just wish the writers would remember that he has other skills too other than ninjitsu.
For the record, if DP just wanted to take Logan out, he could have done so by making specially designed tranquilizers which neutralize Logan's healing factor, and simply snipe him from a distance. Or heck even confront him with weapons loaded with the stuff. Logan's not going to last in a fight where the bullets are say...made of carbonadium. Basically, he would use the same trick that Logan used on Daken. Then he could drown him in water and kill him.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
............what there is no reason to think DP is even with Logan in h2h or blades. he never shown the level of skill Logan has.also I don't agree with the majority of your post
X-23 took Logan down like an afterthought. The very next issue, Logan realized who he was dealing with and stepped his game up so to speak. he then took X-23 down with one hand. The point is, that even a fighter less-skilled than Logan can take him down.
DP is more skilled that X-23, and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that he can hang with Logan regarding h2h and bladed weaponry. Besides, he ambushes Logan and uses tear gas then Logan's going to be vulnerable long enough for DP to slash his throat and stab in the heart. Logan's out for about twenty-minutes if that happens. Meanwhile, DP goes and grabs a Donut. lol
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
X-23 took Logan down like an afterthought. The very next issue, Logan realized who he was dealing with and stepped his game up so to speak. he then took X-23 down with one hand. The point is, that even a fighter less-skilled than Logan can take him down.
She got beat plain and simply in h2h fight with Logan. He then went to help her up and she cheap shotted him. In no way did she beat him like an after thought.
Pleases if your gunna uses an example make sure you get it right.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
DP is more skilled that X-23, and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that he can hang with Logan regarding h2h and bladed weaponry.
No there really not. Can DP fight Logan sure, but he not as skilled in h2h or blades and that pretty clear.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Besides, he ambushes Logan
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
and uses tear gas then Logan's going to be vulnerable long enough for DP
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
to slash his throat and stab in the heart. Logan's out for about twenty-minutes if that happens. Meanwhile, DP goes and grabs a Donut. lol
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I said dp ran away after he found out Logan healing factor was working. which is what happen...........which is what your scann showed.
The only thing you got from that scan was Wolverine? .... you didn't notice the other characters?
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Well, considering that speed and strength are logically related.
So I should expect to see a power lifter taking the gold medal in the 100 meters at the next Olympic games?
😛
jk
Originally posted by Scoobless
The only thing you got from that scan was Wolverine? .... you didn't notice the other characters?
Kane mad up and down sometimes that dudes a beast and then other times a pussy, so odd.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I own the issue and what you said is not what happen.She got beat plain and simply in h2h fight with Logan. He then went to help her up and she cheap shotted him. In no way did she beat him like an after thought.
Pleases if your gunna uses an example make sure you get it right.
Says you and x-23 got her as kicked in h2h vs Logan
No there really not. Can DP fight Logan sure, but he not as skilled in h2h or blades and that pretty clear.
Have you ever even read the rules of the forum?
It would not work. Do I really need to show you scans of Logan fighting in tear gas?
Logan recently got his heart ripped out and did not get KOed until after he beat his opponent.
Fighting tear gas? Yes, but not without difficulty. It's enough to make him vulnerable to DP's attacks. Same with bullets. Whether you want to admit it or not, bullets slow Logan down significantly. Only guys like Frank Tieri wrote Logan with an insane healing factor that made no sense.
I admit I could be potentially wrong about the fight with X-23 because I only read the issue where Wolverine beats her the second time. Also, I never said that DP is AS GOOD as Wolverine, just that he could match him. I mean, DP isn't a slouch with H2H and bladed weapons. So yeah, given the right circumstances he could beat Logan. ESPECIALLY if he used the weapons I described.
Oh, and as I recall Sabs ripped his heart out as Logan was slashing his throat. And Logan was KOED for longer than Creed. he had not beaten his opponent it was a draw if this is what you are referring to.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Well, it's the comics isn't a good excuse in this case, because in order for the blind spot to be that large, you would have to be virtually blind entirely. Anyway, comic book writers usually tend to have logical (although scientifically implausible) explanations for these sorts of things. Daniel Way's explanation isn't even logical at all. It would be as if I made up a villain for Spider-man that can walk through bullets and then when it came to explaining his powers, I said "he just simply walks through the bullets". It's like...yay we know that's possible in the Marvel U, but there NEEDS to be a logical explanation.
Well it's never a good excuse. But in storm shadow's case it's the only excuse that was ever used. 😬
It really doesn't matter if you like it or not. So many things in comics are scientifically and physiologically impossible it seems trite to single this example out. I agree that it seems a bit stupid barring mental powers though.
Originally posted by Scoobless
The only thing you got from that scan was Wolverine? .... you didn't notice the other characters?So I should expect to see a power lifter taking the gold medal in the 100 meters at the next Olympic games?
😛
jk
ahahhahaha..yeah..well if they didn't weigh so much they just might. It's all about balancing weight with speed and training certain types of muscles. Anyway, the point is that Spidey weights like 180 lbs or so right? Well, since he's stronger than Wolverine and weighs like 100 lbs less, he should be able to beat Logan in a foot race running backwards. That being said, Logan's ninjitsu skills make up the difference when considering pure h2h.
Originally posted by jinzin
Well it's never a good excuse. But in storm shadow's case it's the only excuse that was ever used. 😬It really doesn't matter if you like it or not. So many things in comics are scientifically and physiologically impossible it seems trite to single this example out. I agree that it seems a bit stupid barring mental powers though.
But the point is that even when things do break the laws of physics are given the vast majority of the time. Spider-man doesn't "simply stick to walls because he learned it from the master" he was bitten by a radioactive spider! lol.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
But the point is that even when things do break the laws of physics are given the vast majority of the time. Spider-man doesn't "simply stick to walls because he learned it from the master" he was bitten by a radioactive spider! lol.
Different power different explanation, for which Daken hasn't fully enlightened us with anyways. 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
Different power different explanation, for which Daken hasn't fully enlightened us with anyways. 😬
Yeah, but it almost feels as if Way is going to pass this off as some skill you can learn which totally lame considering that no fighter in the Marvel U has utilized this skill. At least not any of the major ones such as Chi, Fist, Pool, Cap, Wolverine, Ogun, or Stick. Why hasn't any of the major h2h combatants picked up on this "skill". I'm just not buying that this character Romulus somehow figured it out and has been keeping it secret all these years from everyone. It undermines the legitimacy of every other fighter which quiet frankly, Daniel Way has no business doing. Especially considering that he's just some B-list writer who's making a mockery of Wolverine in some lame off-shoot that isn't really worth reading and is downright absurd at times.
Daniel Way has to be one of the most illogical writers in all of comic books. Sorry, but something that doesn't make sense just isn't worth reading. Like when Wolverine blew up that store just to break into the bank with an axe...as if he doesn't have the skill to do it without destoying private property.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Oh, I acknowledge that DP CAN beat Wolverine and should a good portion of the same time. Heck, I don't like the way that EITHER character was treated by Daniel Way. I mean, you don't need to read Deadpool to know that he has better fighting skills than he showed in Origins. Also, Wolverine makes better use of his skill than Daniel Way writes. I think both characters were portrayed very poorly.Now, if these two were to go head to head in hand to hand, they would be evenly matched. Now I'm talking fists here. If you bring bladed weapons into it, then again, I think they are evenly matched. Regardless of healing factor, both characters are still vulnerable to attacks and can be hurt. Now if DP was smart and really wanted to win, he could just use mustard gas grenades which would bother Logan especially because of his enhanced smell and taste. This would leave him open to put Wolverine down for the count. Now if Logan were smart, he would realize that he likely needs more than just his claws to take DP down if DP is going to utilize all of his arsenal. I imagine that potentially both of them have virtually unlimited access to the weapons they would need.
Basically, what I'm saying is that Wolverine is much more than just claws and brawn. I just wish the writers would remember that he has other skills too other than ninjitsu.
For the record, if DP just wanted to take Logan out, he could have done so by making specially designed tranquilizers which neutralize Logan's healing factor, and simply snipe him from a distance. Or heck even confront him with weapons loaded with the stuff. Logan's not going to last in a fight where the bullets are say...made of carbonadium. Basically, he would use the same trick that Logan used on Daken. Then he could drown him in water and kill him.
Would Wade even know about carbonadium? I mean it's not like it's use and effects are widely known outside of the Weapon X team, Matsuo, Omega Red, and a small handfull of others.
Tranqs sometimes fail against Logan.
And Gas has definitely failed against Logan in the past as well.
That stuff, well, may OR may not work on logan depending really, and what's worse is that it could easily turn against DP too.
And DP isn't Logan's equal in h2h and has never proven so in any ONE of their many fights that they've previously had. Nor should he. Wolverine's variety of training, and experience heavily outweigh anything we know that DP has under his belt. Plus, Wolverine's got the whole eternal warrior soul thing going for him.
I thought DP used some rather decent display of h2h skill against Logan in that last part of the fight, robbed of index fingers and he was still putting up a good tussel. But still lost, like he has and always should outside of outside circumstances... 😬
Originally posted by The Real WolvieI agree that the bank vault break-in was really lame coming from a guy who snuck into the Baxter building but it's not enough of a reason to write off the series. The only REAL problem I have with this whole read is that it's so damned SLOWWWWWWWW. I mean, it's clearly heavily underwritten to keep the book on the shelves.
Yeah, but it almost feels as if Way is going to pass this off as some skill you can learn which totally lame considering that no fighter in the Marvel U has utilized this skill. At least not any of the major ones such as Chi, Fist, Pool, Cap, Wolverine, Ogun, or Stick. Why hasn't any of the major h2h combatants picked up on this "skill". I'm just not buying that this character Romulus somehow figured it out and has been keeping it secret all these years from everyone. It undermines the legitimacy of every other fighter which quiet frankly, Daniel Way has no business doing. Especially considering that he's just some B-list writer who's making a mockery of Wolverine in some lame off-shoot that isn't really worth reading and is downright absurd at times.Daniel Way has to be one of the most illogical writers in all of comic books. Sorry, but something that doesn't make sense just isn't worth reading. Like when Wolverine blew up that store just to break into the bank with an axe...as if he doesn't have the skill to do it without destoying private property.
However, you're really not in a place to judge what kind of whack ass "skills" someone who's been around since the dawn of time brings to the table. I'd imagine that someone who bosses Sabretooth around and toys with Wolverine's life would be able to back it up. I wouldn't be heavily surprised to find him clearly outstripping Shang, IF, etc in the skill department either.
Whether Way has business creating such powerful characters like Daken is neither here nor there. Daken's a 616 character now. What he's capible of and why have really yet to be tested so why hate?
Originally posted by jinzin
I agree that the bank vault break-in was really lame coming from a guy who snuck into the Baxter building but it's not enough of a reason to write off the series. The only REAL problem I have with this whole read is that it's so damned SLOWWWWWWWW. I mean, it's clearly heavily underwritten to keep the book on the shelves.However, you're really not in a place to judge what kind of whack ass "skills" someone who's been around since the dawn of time brings to the table. I'd imagine that someone who bosses Sabretooth around and toys with Wolverine's life would be able to back it up. I wouldn't be heavily surprised to find him clearly outstripping Shang, IF, etc in the skill department either.
Whether Way has business creating such powerful characters like Daken is neither here nor there. Daken's a 616 character now. What he's capible of and why have really yet to be tested so why hate?
Because it potentially undermines the work of other writers. I don't like when these B-list guys come with some half-cocked hair-brain idea that seems like it's been written by a five-year old. Sabretooth should NEVER be bossed around by anyone considering his nature. The fact that he was is so out of line, that it makes me sick. I didn't like it when Hamma did it to Claremont's story, and I'm not liking it now. It's as if the editors at Marvel are just here Mr.Way - you have substandard writing skills but go ahead and dick around with the continuity and dynamics of Wolverine and Sabretooth's relationship. Him and Loeb have a right I suppose since Marvel gives them that right, but it still is terrible.
How does it mess with continuity? Well, for starters, there's never been a hint of Romulus' existence outside of Loeb and Way's storyline. (And yes I'm lumping these two dung heaps together). It makes absolutely no sense that weapon-x would have anything to do with someone that has powers like Romulus - nor does it make sense that Weapon-x would be controlled by someone like Romulus unless of course Romulus just happens to be Apocalypse but hey don't hold your breath. But right there is a good example. Apocalypse is one of Marvel's most powerful characters. Apparently though, so is Romulus. Can you honestly see Romulus standing by while Apocalypse strips Creed of his adamantium and gives it to Logan? Now if Romulus were actually just Apocalypse in disguise, it would make so much more sense and be actually worth reading. But trying to inject some huge villain into Wolverine's past just messes with everyone's idea of who he is. I mean, Way makes Logan look like scum even in the present. Claremont's character was shady, yes, but he was never the scum Way is making him out to be. It's been nearly 35 years that Wolverine's been around so why not just use a big Villain like Apocalypse who we already know has shown substantial interest in Wolverine and Creed.
I just don't like how Marvel cheaped out and chose Daniel Way to write the Origin for Wolverine. It's Claremont's character, and he really should be allowed to write these origins. I mean, the only time I ever feel like I'm really reading the true Wolverine is when Claremont writes him. Even Hama falls short.
Originally posted by jinzin
Would Wade even know about carbonadium? I mean it's not like it's use and effects are widely known outside of the Weapon X team, Matsuo, Omega Red, and a small handfull of others.Tranqs sometimes fail against Logan.
And Gas has definitely failed against Logan in the past as well.That stuff, well, may OR may not work on logan depending really, and what's worse is that it could easily turn against DP too.
And DP isn't Logan's equal in h2h and has never proven so in any ONE of their many fights that they've previously had. Nor should he. Wolverine's variety of training, and experience heavily outweigh anything we know that DP has under his belt. Plus, Wolverine's got the whole eternal warrior soul thing going for him.
I thought DP used some rather decent display of h2h skill against Logan in that last part of the fight, robbed of index fingers and he was still putting up a good tussel. But still lost, like he has and always should outside of outside circumstances... 😬
SHIELD used a specialized tranq on Logan that knocked him out with a single dose. I'm sure DP could get his hands on that considering his connections. Heck, he could even base it on his own healing factor and that would be enough. That this scenario is given that Logan has no prep time and DP DOES have prep time. Also, we've seen that Nightcrawlers' stench that he makes when he teleports is enough to gas Logan severely. I mean, sure the healing factor compensates but since Logan has sensitive nostrils, he is vulnerable to these attacks. Maybe not for a knock out, but enough to cause him to open up to DP's bladed attacks.
Also, you don't need to be on Logan's level of skill if you use really nasty grenades to throw Logan off. Heck, you can just shoot him with regular bullets or burn his flesh off and that would give DP an equalizer. Logan can't stop DP from stabbing him in the heart if his muscles are burnt to a crisp now.
DP had a much better showing in Wolverine 88...I thought he was hanging with Wolvie pretty good during that fight. Well...except for the fact that he would have died 30 seconds in if not for his healing factor.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
SHIELD used a specialized tranq on Logan that knocked him out with a single dose. I'm sure DP could get his hands on that considering his connections. Heck, he could even base it on his own healing factor and that would be enough. That this scenario is given that Logan has no prep time and DP DOES have prep time. Also, we've seen that Nightcrawlers' stench that he makes when he teleports is enough to gas Logan severely. I mean, sure the healing factor compensates but since Logan has sensitive nostrils, he is vulnerable to these attacks. Maybe not for a knock out, but enough to cause him to open up to DP's bladed attacks.Also, you don't need to be on Logan's level of skill if you use really nasty grenades to throw Logan off. Heck, you can just shoot him with regular bullets or burn his flesh off and that would give DP an equalizer. Logan can't stop DP from stabbing him in the heart if his muscles are burnt to a crisp now.
DP had a much better showing in Wolverine 88...I thought he was hanging with Wolvie pretty good during that fight. Well...except for the fact that he would have died 30 seconds in if not for his healing factor.
What connections?
Nobody likes DP, even people that hire mercs. 😬
And when did Nightcrawlers stench effect Wolverine "severly"? Because there's about a dozen instances where it doesn't even register an effect.
I keep thinking back to Rucka's run. Wolverine was running around in gas that KOed normal men in an instant completely uneffected.
You said DP was as skilled.. He isn't. Okay so now you're changing your position.. Fair enough then but bullets and explosives aren't enough consistently speaking.. Hell their last fight proved that.
DP did not have a good showing in 88 vs. Wolverine. DP couldn't land one shot with an automatic. and got nailed with three blows that would have been fatal sans HF before he managed to land one.
Wolverine even hit him in the face with retracted claws. Were the claws out, the fight'd be over much faster and it would have been Logan to leave.
DP's only saving grace was him being put up against a Logan who couldn't heal a bloody nose. Even then, the entire pace of that fight was left up to the difference of HF vs no HF and Logan's generosity. How is that a good showing for DP's skill?
The best DP's ever done against Logan was in DP 27 when he was off the deep end more than usual and even then that was STILL after Deadpool had been dead to rights once already early on in the fight.
wolverine is pretty familiar with pis (dude caught a bullet with his fricken fingers) and deadpool is often just too goofy to be written seriously on a constant basis. besides, deadpool written seriously is deathstroke (minus the genius intellect).
concerning the skill levels of the two, wolverine has a vast amount of knowledge in h2h and is far superior to wade in that department but, skill itself is natural. wade can hang with logan as far as skill is concerned. if for nothing else because of his natural prowess and innate ability to come up with maneuvers on the fly and pull them off well.
moreover, dp is a superb sharpshooter and is very versatile with many weapons. probably more so than logan but, i'm a little rusty on just how good logan is with guns and the like but, i'm gonna guess wade's better.
and i know it's been said before but, wade soundly defeated the taskmaster with his hands and feet bound. wade was putting on a show, while taskmaster wasn't playing around. and just as a reminder, taskmaster has a mountain of knowledge in h2h combat. he has the ability to pick up movements and learn them instantly make him a master at h2h combat and melee combat in general. but even with his knowledge it showed to be worthless to wades' erratic fighting style.
while logan is a different beast, the same principals should apply. an encyclopedic knowledge in h2h combat won't give you much more than a slight edge against wade, even logan. besides, logan won't be using his finesse against wade for very long. every time logan fights wade he always goes berserk. he just gets to him too much.
as far as healing factors go. it's my understanding it that wade has the superior healing factor. however, both wade and logan have been written inconstantly in this area.
magneto ripped the adamanitum right out of logan and it nearly kills him but, more than once logan has been incinerated yet comes back right as rain. wtf?
also, wade was given an amped up healing factor for a short run and had his legs sliced clean off and vaporized in "agent of weapon x" and healed in a matter of seconds yet, states in his fight with kane after a slash to his chest that he's "fading fast!?"
i think dp and wolvie stack up evenly. it's all a matter in who writes them and the fact is wolvie is a household name in marvel. he's gonna come out looking better than dp in a fight, mostly because if the character isn't obviously superior to wolverine, wolverine will be the victor. and sometimes an obviously superior character will still lose to wolverine because... you see where i'm going. i blame the writers.
more often than not, there's stipulations where dp has an unfair advantage, giving him the "W" but, when it's even it's always written showing dp isn't on the level with logan. probably the most accurate match between the two was probably in deadpool issue 27.
Spoiler:
although the ending was kinda lame. wolvie wins because dp was distracted by visions (see what i mean. it's always something). i would've preferred an all out brawl.
Spoiler:
aside from the fact logan should've been knocked out cold on more than one occasion. still very good.
i'm not complaining that logan wins (wolverine still kicks ass) but, wolverine is just too fashionable. he's like chuck norris with claws. other than having adamantium, logan really shouldn't be (that) superior to wade.
deadpool books sell mostly because he's funny so he'll suffer not being the totally badass but, end up as comedy relief. hence why he jobs out a looks a fool doing so. and that's what seems to sells for him. i would like it if they'd balance him out a bit more is all. and actually, i think they've done a decent job with wade in the cable/deadpool series.
wolverine books sell because he's everyones favorite "unstoppable killing machine" with a nasty attitude. and who doesn't like a jerk with a heart of gold?
so here's my final two cents: if there's some distance between the two, say at least 100 yards, dp has got the advantage because of his arsenal. logan has to move quick and avoid fire as best as possible. a high-velocity bullet could scramble his insides. also, depending on what wade's carrying could make a big difference.
deadpools' grenades can make a difference too which, he definitely carries.
up close, logan has the advantage because of the adamantium frame and claws. wade can only avoid those claws for so long before logan hits something vital. he'd have to out do logan in close quarters combat (which he could and has) and/or get some distance between them.
it could go either way.
and segueing from the thread; don't know about you guys but, i'm anticipating the wolverine origins movie and the possible deadpool movie follow up with eagerness. 🤣