I don't believe the skill difference between Cap and DD is so great that Cap would be a clear winner everytime, it would definitely be a toss up everytime those two met (with a slight advantage to Cap). My mind tells me that BP would beat IF, but IF is suppose to be a top tier fighter, so I don't know. However, IF can heal himself and DD with his Chi if either of them sustains massive injuries. Not to mention IF can take out either combatant if he can get a IFfist shot onto one of them. I'd say team 2 6/10.
I would lose to Captain America. He has that deadly shield throw, and i cant dodge or grab it.
Black Panther would headlock myhead off.
Dare Devil? I would use my peakhumanstealht and strike him downf rom behind. i have control over lal my muscles through intense training, he wont hear them.
and iron fist, well, i kicks his ass, oldschoolstyle😉
Originally posted by jrodslam
You said that Shield THINKS that Cap can handle DD. Thats just an opinion. An uncertain one at that.😬 Where was this stated?
Wolvie and Blade has nothing to do with Cap and DD.
Yeah it does. If somebody makes a prediction and its right its evidence that if they make another one that will be right also.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Running speed doesnt equate to hand speed. Cap was stated to be a faster runner than DD. Yea it helps Cap in combat if hes actually running from Matt.
Of course not.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Moving in and out of range isnt the same as sprinting 3 or 4 blocks. Dd probably would be able to keep up with Cap for a few steps, but not in a full sprint.
Of course not but if you have powerful legs obvoulsy they are going to help with mobility in combat. Weight lifting isnt the same as punching but obvoulsy having powerful muscles will help in punching power.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Cap being stronger doesnt help because DD fightinbg skills allow him to roll with the punches, making them less effective. Plus Cap isnt stronger by DD much.
Thats true.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Both at peak, the fight isnt lasting long enough to the point where DD will start to get fatigued. Unlike against Spiderman, Daredevil wouldnt have to waste as much energy evading and rolling with punches.
How do you know that. What are you telling me that DD is going to finish him off easily. In all honesty Cap would probably hit DD more often that Spiderman would considering the fact that Spiderman cant take Cap in H2H but can beeat up DD badly.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont see how Cap experience would help him here.
Sorry bro, but thats a stupid statement, please make an effort.
Originally posted by jrodslam
His shield would be useless to throw imo. Its not like hed actually hit DD with it. Plus DD already knows the ricocheting capabilities of the shield. By now, Cap probably knows this as well. It would most likely be a pure h2h fight if they ever did mix it up again. Like i said before. Cap would be better off keeping it on his arm.
DD knows it can bounce off walls that all and like I said Cap doesnt even need to aim it at him. Cap can do to DD what hes done to Spiderman and Namor move them into a dierection he wants so he can hit them. DD is not as versatile as Cap is with his shield and Cap could decide to smash his billy clubs up so DD will have to fight without it
Originally posted by jrodslam
Classifications mean nothing imo. Id rather go by whats shown on panel.
True but even on Panel Cap gets more props than DD. You hear other people commenting on Caps H2H technique even when hes not even in the comic eg Wolverine talking about Caps technique when he was in an MA tournament.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Im not doubting Cap is one of Earths greatest combatants. Not at all. DD saying so means just that. Hes one of the greatest. Doesnt mean hes a better h2h combatant than Matt though.
True.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Saying that Cap is better than Shang Chi doesnt mean Cap knows more styles. Theres a difference. Cap can know 3 stlyes and be a master of them and yet be more effective in combat than Shang who knows 10 styles and has mastered all of them.
Er maybe.....I think Cap has mastered more than 3 styles.
Originally posted by jrodslam
ABC logic can really be used in determining who is better of combatants. DD beat Wolverine and Wolvie beat Shang. Secondly, who knows if Ghostmaker was gonna kill DD. He was talking s**t like all villains do. Thirdly, he didnt fight in pure h2h with DD. He also used a shock device to temporarily stun DD. Thats all.
In all fairness DD beating Wolverine that easy was PIS. Wolverine beating Shnag in 3 panels was PIS.
True Ghostmakes did use a shockdevice. All I can say is that Shang seemed to have done slightly better. Shang compeletly and utterly stomped GM (Ghostmaker) even when he pulled out his weapons. DD obvoulsy was doing better than GM but GM could have serioulsy wounded him if it wasnt for his armour plating and even at one point put DD on the defensive a bit.
In their first fight GM wasnt doing to badly until Elecktra came and distracted GM. It seems Shang did do slightly better than DD and its been stated that Cap is better than Shang by Shang villains. People who fight Shang Chi on a regular basis are good judges.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Cap knew ninjitsu back in WW2? Still not a master like DD is though.
DD wasnt even born yet.....
Originally posted by jrodslam
Either way, Cap couldnt have been training in that all this time.
Well yeah he would be training in that and other martial arts.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Wasnt he frozen for a decade?
Yeah and when he came out I dont even think DD had started his superhero career.
Originally posted by jrodslam
When did he have the time to master the style? Logically, he may know more than DD. Logically, hes not a master at but a couple of styles.
Well logically he should be a master of every style. Cap was also sent back in time by Korvac every time Korvac defeated him. Everytime Cap was sent back he had to think of new way to defeat him. Cap obvoulsy still trained and he had to train other people as well, one time reboot lasted 20 years.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro Shield thinks that Cap can handle DD. Shield also said that Blade could kill Wolverine, Blade could have done it but he refrained.Apparently DD has admitted that Cap is faster than him.....but the bloody scan doesnt work so I didnt get to see it.
Cap is stronger, has more stamina, has more experience, has an indestructible weapon that he can use at long range and is more versatile than his Billyclub. Probably knows more styles than DD and you think DDs gonna beat him?
Wolverine who was tired from fighting omega red toyed with blade and was winning the encounter.......so much for your whole arguement.
Your only evidence works against you in this case.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah it does. If somebody makes a prediction and its right its evidence that if they make another one that will be right also.
Not true. You said that shield thinks, thus its an educated guess. thats all it can be. How? Because the times that they have fought, someone wasnt in their right mind or someone was fatigued. They dont have any pure fights to judge.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Of course not but if you have powerful legs obvoulsy they are going to help with mobility in combat. Weight lifting isnt the same as punching but obvoulsy having powerful muscles will help in punching power.
Powerful legs help in combat mobility wise with agility probably more than anything. Daredevil is more agile than Cap, yet Cap runs faster. Having powerful muscles does help in punching power indeed. Knowing how to punch would help more. My point is.....muscles aint everything.
Originally posted by Alfheim
How do you know that. What are you telling me that DD is going to finish him off easily. In all honesty Cap would probably hit DD more often that Spiderman would considering the fact that Spiderman cant take Cap in H2H but can beeat up DD badly.
I know that because its been shown. Daredevil has to waste much more energy when fighting Spiderman than he does fighting Captain America. It just takes more out of him because Spidey is so strong and fast. To my knowledge, i dont think Cap has fought Spidey nearly as much as DD has. Again, ABC logic doesnt always work.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry bro, but thats a stupid statement, please make an effort.
Ehh, i dont think its a stupid statement. Sometimes experience is overrated. In this particular case, it is. A stupid statement is to say Cap has experience over DD because its obvious that exp wouldnt play much of a factor if they were to fight.
Originally posted by Alfheim
DD knows it can bounce off walls that all and like I said Cap doesnt even need to aim it at him. Cap can do to DD what hes done to Spiderman and Namor move them into a dierection he wants so he can hit them. DD is not as versatile as Cap is with his shield and Cap could decide to smash his billy clubs up so DD will have to fight without it
DD uses his clubs just how Cap used his shield throwing wise. By now DD knows that Cap doesnt have to aim at him. Same can be said about DD throwing the clubs. DD's clubs arent as versatile protection wise and they can cut like the shield can, but they are both used very similar. Also, Cap isnt smashing DDs clubs unless he does it via shield bash on the floor. If Cap throws his shield, he probably wouldnt even get it back.
Originally posted by Alfheim
True but even on Panel Cap gets more props than DD. You hear other people commenting on Caps H2H technique even when hes not even in the comic eg Wolverine talking about Caps technique when he was in an MA tournament.
I dont care about props. People can comment on Cap, but it still doesnt mean hes better than DD.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Er maybe.....I think Cap has mastered more than 3 styles.
Id love to know what they are.
Originally posted by Alfheim
In all fairness DD beating Wolverine that easy was PIS. Wolverine beating Shnag in 3 panels was PIS.True Ghostmakes did use a shockdevice. All I can say is that Shang seemed to have done slightly better. Shang compeletly and utterly stomped GM (Ghostmaker) even when he pulled out his weapons. DD obvoulsy was doing better than GM but GM could have serioulsy wounded him if it wasnt for his armour plating and even at one point put DD on the defensive a bit.
In their first fight GM wasnt doing to badly until Elecktra came and distracted GM. It seems Shang did do slightly better than DD and its been stated that Cap is better than Shang by Shang villains. People who fight Shang Chi on a regular basis are good judges.
Hey, in all fairness, Wolvie beating powerhouses is PIS also.😬
Difference between DDs fight with Ghostmaker and Shangs was that GM and SC fought in pure h2h first. Thqat wasnt the case with DD and GM. They always had the weapons. Secondly, GM didnt use anything like what he used against DD on SC. As for GM being able to seriously wound DD had it not been for the armor, that proves the point i wasnt trying to make in another thread. When DD was wearing that suit for that time period, he fought differently. He fought sloppy and with more rage. Hes mentioned that already. When DD is wearing the all red, he fights much better.
I dont know. Daredevil stated that he could have beat GM without Elektra. Also, GM broke 3 of shangs ribs and they seemed to have traded more blows. I have to look at that fight again. I dont rank Shang in terms of MA prowess as high as i do DD, IF and others.
Originally posted by Alfheim
DD wasnt even born yet.....
Doesnt matter. I highly doubt Cap is a master at ninjistu.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah he would be training in that and other martial arts.
Which is why i dont think that Cap is a master at more than 3 styles.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and when he came out I dont even think DD had started his superhero career.
Again, doesnt matter.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well logically he should be a master of every style. Cap was also sent back in time by Korvac every time Korvac defeated him. Everytime Cap was sent back he had to think of new way to defeat him. Cap obvoulsy still trained and he had to train other people as well, one time reboot lasted 20 years.
Logically, he shouldnt be a master at every style. Hes never had the time to fully train in every style to be a master at it imo. True Cap has trained others, but id like to see someone in a comic where it states that Cap is a master at every form of MA. Thats why i think the Marvel fighting skill ratings/meanings should be changed.
Originally posted by capt it upWolverine who was tired from fighting omega red toyed with blade and was winning the encounter.......so much for your whole arguement.
Your only evidence works against you in this case.
as i recall, (and correct me if i'm wrong) they both had just been thru a fight..and seeing as how your always bragging bout Wolverines god-like healing ability...he should have had ample enuff time to get back to normal, and yet they appeared to be evenly matched.
Cap for the win though, hands down he is in the top three best of MU Earths' combantants...Panther and Danny would be a more interesting fight
We can debate forever over which fighters are best. I think enough comics have shown that each of these characters are in league with the others. But, as much as I'm a big Iron Fist fan, I have to say that the end result would be Cap and B.P. based on team work. They've fought together more often than I.F. and D.D.
Team work counts for alot!
Despite that, I'm going with JudgeRevenge and myself for the win over both teams, even though we've never fought togtether before. 😉
Originally posted by Sin I AM
as i recall, (and correct me if i'm wrong) they both had just been thru a fight..and seeing as how your always bragging bout Wolverines god-like healing ability...he should have had ample enuff time to get back to normal, and yet they appeared to be evenly matched.Cap for the win though, hands down he is in the top three best of MU Earths' combantants...Panther and Danny would be a more interesting fight
Oh and Blade had one sided prep.
Did you even read the issue? Logan could have killed Blade 3 times. He held back the entire fight. Blade was getting his ass kicked versed a weaken wolverine who was toying with him.
Oh also do you even know what omega red does? Obviously not. Omega red power weakens logans healing factor not to mention they went 15 rounds amplying it was a huge battle.
So your whole post was crapp.
Purely H2H, aka no devices to screw up DD's senses you have two of earths best fighters against possibly earths best fighter and someone who is so so with nifty suit. BP is really the weak link here, if he was swapped with someone a bit more fitted I could see team one taking he heafty majority. As for now im leaning towards team 2
Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7
Purely H2H, aka no devices to screw up DD's senses you have two of earths best fighters against possibly earths best fighter and someone who is so so with nifty suit. BP is really the weak link here, if he was swapped with someone a bit more fitted I could see team one taking he heafty majority. As for now im leaning towards team 2
though black panther more then so so. He a great fighter he just not up to the others level.
Agreed with the last 2 posts.
Capt, do they show REd and Wolvie fighting? Or was it talked about? Let me get the comic and issue # please.
Also, in response to FOOMs post, Daredevil and Fist have teammed up alot. True its not as much as Panther and Cap, but they know each other VERY well personality and move/fighting skill wise.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Not true. You said that shield thinks, thus its an educated guess. thats all it can be. How? Because the times that they have fought, someone wasnt in their right mind or someone was fatigued. They dont have any pure fights to judge.
Ok afir enough.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Powerful legs help in combat mobility wise with agility probably more than anything. Daredevil is more agile than Cap, yet Cap runs faster. Having powerful muscles does help in punching power indeed. Knowing how to punch would help more. My point is.....muscles aint everything.
Well at the end of tha day you said it would help thats all I need to know. You know there is no evidence to say that DD is more agile really.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I know that because its been shown. Daredevil has to waste much more energy when fighting Spiderman than he does fighting Captain America. It just takes more out of him because Spidey is so strong and fast. To my knowledge, i dont think Cap has fought Spidey nearly as much as DD has. Again, ABC logic doesnt always work.
No but Cap has done better than DD has, I don think that DD has put Spiderman flat on his back with one punch and made him see stars. Using that logic Cap would be more trouble than Spiderman.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Ehh, i dont think its a stupid statement. Sometimes experience is overrated. In this particular case, it is. A stupid statement is to say Cap has experience over DD because its obvious that exp wouldnt play much of a factor if they were to fight.
Cap clearly has more experience and why awouldnt it help?
Originally posted by jrodslam
DD uses his clubs just how Cap used his shield throwing wise. By now DD knows that Cap doesnt have to aim at him. Same can be said about DD throwing the clubs. DD's clubs arent as versatile protection wise and they can cut like the shield can, but they are both used very similar.
The Billy clubs are not as versatile as his shield and dont do as much damage, period.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Also, Cap isnt smashing DDs clubs unless he does it via shield bash on the floor.
Yeah of course because hes smashed stuff much harder than DDs clubs. Cap would need to smash on the floor.
Originally posted by jrodslam
If Cap throws his shield, he probably wouldnt even get it back. .
Maybe but like I said he doesnt even have to aim at him.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont care about props. People can comment on Cap, but it still doesnt mean hes better than DD.
Maybe but it deosnt hurt when people comment on it.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Id love to know what they are.
I dont know but considerng the fact that he has some control over chi and knew what ninjuitus was at the beggining of his career AND he spend his time constantly training I think he mastered more than 3 styles.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Hey, in all fairness, Wolvie beating powerhouses is PIS also.😬
No but I cant be bothered to get into that....for starters his claws are super sharp.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Difference between DDs fight with Ghostmaker and Shangs was that GM and SC fought in pure h2h first. Thqat wasnt the case with DD and GM. They always had the weapons. Secondly, GM didnt use anything like what he used against DD on SC. As for GM being able to seriously wound DD had it not been for the armor, that proves the point i wasnt trying to make in another thread. When DD was wearing that suit for that time period, he fought differently. He fought sloppy and with more rage. Hes mentioned that already. When DD is wearing the all red, he fights much better.I dont know. Daredevil stated that he could have beat GM without Elektra.
Ok, well to be a fair that wasnt much betwee DDs fight with GMs and Shangs.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Also, GM broke 3 of shangs ribs and they seemed to have traded more blows. I have to look at that fight again. I dont rank Shang in terms of MA prowess as high as i do DD, IF and others.
Well this is the thing Shang wasnt wearing any amour and quite frankly Shang stomped GM. GM only punched Shang once, GM even pulled some weapons on him and Shang still stomped his butt. The fight is in the Shang Chi respect thread.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Doesnt matter.
I highly doubt Cap is a master at ninjistu.
Again that is a stupid statement to make. Cap trains constantly, he knew about ninjitsu before DD was born. Why wouldnt he be a master of ninjuitsu?
Originally posted by jrodslam
Which is why i dont think that Cap is a master at more than 3 styles.
That response doesnt make any sense.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Again, doesnt matter.
Ok explain why it doesnt matter.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Logically, he shouldnt be a master at every style. Hes never had the time to fully train in every style to be a master at it imo. True Cap has trained others, but id like to see someone in a comic where it states that Cap is a master at every form of MA. Thats why i think the Marvel fighting skill ratings/meanings should be changed.
Ok did you read the bit where I said Cap was sent back in time, hundreds of times? That was planety of time to master every martial art. Besides Batman career I think is shoter than Caps and hes mastered many styles.....its a comcbook.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well at the end of tha day you said it would help thats all I need to know. You know there is no evidence to say that DD is more agile really.
It would help moreso agility wise. No evidence to say that DD is more agile than Cap? Next to Spidey, Beast and Nightcrawler, Daredevil is the next best thing. Of all the people Taskmaster has borrowed abilities from, he uses Daredevils and Spidermans agility.
Originally posted by Alfheim
No but Cap has done better than DD has, I dont think that DD has put Spiderman flat on his back with one punch and made him see stars. Using that logic Cap would be more trouble than Spiderman.
Has Cap done better than DD has? Daredevil has knocked Spiderman out on more than 1 occasion. Because Cap has knocked Spiderman down and made him see stars its logic that hed be harder for DD to defeat than Spidey? I dont see it that way.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap clearly has more experience and why wouldnt it help?
I already said why it wouldnt help in a fight against Daredevil. Please explain how it would help.
Originally posted by Alfheim
The Billy clubs are not as versatile as his shield and dont do as much damage, period.Yeah of course because hes smashed stuff much harder than DDs clubs. Cap would need to smash on the floor.
Maybe but like I said he doesnt even have to aim at him.
Its obvious the clubs wouldnt do as much damage. Thats impossible. I never stated otherwise. I did say that they were used the same way and they are as versatile offensively for the most part. The clubs cant cut/slice things however. The shield is better defensive wise.
Again, i said the only way Cap is smashing DD's clubs, is via shield bashing it on the floor.
DD knows Cap doesnt have to aim at him. DD doesnt have to aim the clubs at Cap either.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Maybe but it deosnt hurt when people comment on it.
But who cares. It doesnt help any.😬
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont know but considerng the fact that he has some control over chi and knew what ninjuitus was at the beggining of his career AND he spend his time constantly training I think he mastered more than 3 styles.
Because he knew what ninjistu was at the beginnign of his career means nothing. For all we know, he could have spent most of his time training in boxing and judo. Hell, he could have trained in tactical warfare for a decade or two.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is the thing Shang wasnt wearing any amour and quite frankly Shang stomped GM. GM only punched Shang once, GM even pulled some weapons on him and Shang still stomped his butt. The fight is in the Shang Chi respect thread.
Shang wasnt wearing any armor, but DD wasnt fightint at normal capability. At that time while wearing the red and grey suit, Daredevil wasnt even in his right state of mind. And like i said, the weapons he used against Shang are < the electrical throwing weapons used against DD.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Again that is a stupid statement to make. Cap trains constantly, he knew about ninjitsu before DD was born. Why wouldnt he be a master of ninjuitsu?
How is that a stupid statement to make? Explain. So what if he knew about it before DD was born. He may have knowledge in it, but hes not a master at ninjistu. When does/did Cap have time to train in that? Before the boxing? Before the Judo? Before being frozen? Before fighting in the war and joining the All Winners Squad and Invaders? Just because you have knowledge in the art doesnt mean your a master at it.
Originally posted by Alfheim
That response doesnt make any sense.Ok explain why it doesnt matter.
Already explained it. In previous posts as well. Regardless if DD was born or not, it doesnt automatically mean Cap is a master at it. There are only about 4 masters of ninjistu in Marvel street level wise that i know of. Thats Wolverine, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Black Widow and Elektra. Might be a couple more im forgetting, but Cap isnt one of them.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok did you read the bit where I said Cap was sent back in time, hundreds of times? That was planety of time to master every martial art. Besides Batman career I think is shoter than Caps and hes mastered many styles.....its a comcbook.
Send back in time hundreds of times? For how long? And in those hundreds of times, hes mastered the Arts? Youre right. If thats the case, he should have mastered every martial art, yet for some reason, its never mentioned. Batman is said to have master 127 forms of martial arts of combat. I dont totally believe that either. I would believe hes mastered more than Cap for the simple fact thats hes been training since he was a kid. He actually had the time to do so and master more than have knowledge in many things.
Its clear we wont see eye to eye on this. Its cool. Opinions vary.