Proposal Requires Straights to Have Kids or Marriages Will Be Voided

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I'm assuming that since they would likely have extensive theological training and faith in God and the Bible that clearly they have looked in the Bible and they believe it would be acceptable.

But then again - people interpreting the Bible? Outrageous.

Romans 8:38-39

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Well if it isn't going to fall far no reason to stop gay marriages.

Since that is the first time I think I posted a simple version of my views on marriage I guess everyone just anticipated that you would disagree.

So lets strip marriage of its legal benefits. If marriage as a concept is right and all there should be no greater benefit then the image of unity between two people.

Wow. Just wow.

Of course, allowing people to have a say in what constitutes marriage would be a terrible blow. Marriage isn't supposed to be about the people...

So... you are looking up gay public orgies on your school computer or something?

I'm not even joking with that address, but be careful--if I've typed it correctly--as it's obviously (or so I would hope it would be) not safe for work, school, or a semblance of goodness.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You are aware that Christianity and Judaism, as well as marriage has been corrupt and flawed for millenia right ? 😬

What makes you believe that Christian-Judeo views on marriage are correct ?

Especially when the concept of marriage existed before and elsewhere from Judaism and Christianity ?

"God's will" is nothing more than a re-editted and retconned series of commands made by men in power.....face this and move on.

What about just the right to get married ? What about social equality ? Or is that concept so foreign to your conservative eyes ?

Love is never wrong...you actually disagree ?

No one is saying sexual actions between two consenting adults is a good thing, we're just saying it's a right that one has...

Are you really this stupid ?

Between classes huh ?

Would you mind telling me how old you are exactly, and what school you go to ? It may help shed some light on your influences and biases...and your hypocrisy...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Could someone explain to me how allowing two gay people in a loving relationship to marry would "reduce the sacredness blah blah blah" of marriage when currently anyone can do all of the above in a straight marriage and that currently a large proportion of marriages "for love" end up in divorce in the long run anyway?

And how stopping two people from marrying for love because of their sexual preference while allowing a man to marry a Russian bride to give her residency for money while on a bender doesn't in itself make a mockery of marriage?

Because said Russian is a "bride". A woman...a normal human being. You know, a real person. A real person that was placed here by god to be an example of reproduction, heterosexuaity, and divinity.

And Fece, "moral decay" is a ridiculously subjective term. So much so that I'm amazed you would use it at all.

Originally posted by FeceMan
*Sighs.* Because there is one God, one Maker of the heavens and the Earth, one Alpha and Omega, one who has made all that was, is, and forevermore shall be, and He has ordained all things as they should be.

"God's will" is the reason we exist. Face this and move on.

My age matters not, for I am more mature than you in all my aspects. Perhaps you would tell me your age and schooling? It may help shed some light on your influences and biases...and your moral turpitude...

Religion cannot be seriously used in a moral debate anymore, as the only point of religion is to brew a sense of enduring morality in children and beyond, and God knows (pun intended) how much that's been ****ed up lately. The advocates are becoming increasingly corrupt and the opponents are becoming increasingly rational and correct.

What is wrong with you, Fece?

That's not the way you would argue a month ago. What happened?

Right now you seem no better than whob, JesusisAlive, sithsaber, Nellinator and all the others that just use their Bible quotes and "God said it" to justify their harmful behaviour.

Originally posted by FeceMan
More often than not, it's a whole "Jesus loves everyone, so homosexuality is grand." You've no idea how often I've read one verse over and over again on this issue.

Hmmmm. So I can't trust priests opinions on the matter... or at least not the priests who are disagreeing with "traditional" views... I guess if I fell into faith somehow I would have to be a Church of one, sticking to what I think the Bible is saying.

This has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality, and yet it is so often used to bolster the argument that living the homosexual lifestyle is not wrong.

So what is it saying? At face value it seem pretty much to say "There isn't a thing on heaven or earth that will stop God loving you."

Are you saying the homosexual lifestyle will block God's love, or that God will continue to love a person living a homosexual lifestyle but that wont make it ok?

*Shrugs.* Should we cut off a person's foot if he only needs part of it amputated? It's not much more, after all.

Well, that is a workable allegory. On one hand we are trying to track, abstractly and relativity due to opinion, the decline of "sacredness" in marriage, a concept itself, on the other with have something psychical with actual consequences and repircussions.

And if one says there are repercussions for making marriage lose a wee bit more sacredness... well, those European countries were it is legal don't seem to have been swallowed by hell yet.

Well, duh.

Duh indeed. (I didn't know people said that anymore.)

Maybe we ought to.

Good, we agree.

Yes, that's correct. "Wow" all you want. I merely state the truth.

Wow.

That's the problem, heh. www.mardigrasstreetfairboysmen.com

I'm not even joking with that address, but be careful--if I've typed it correctly--as it's obviously (or so I would hope it would be) not safe for work, school, or a semblance of goodness.

I've been to the Australian Mardi Gras, and there was a lot of tight clothing, pelvic thrusting and the occasionally bit of nudity (bleech.) But it appears compared to those ones it was quite tame, thank heavens.

Still, from the looks of it, I can't help but be doubtful a bunch these kind of people are not interested in marriage. "Lets go and have oral sex with strangers during a daylight pride parade! Then we march on the governors house and demand the right to marry!"

Of course as we have already all agreed - this is not all gay people. Probably not even a large number of gay people - and as such their actions shouldn't reflect on the gay community as a whole, no more then heterosexuals who do things like that should reflect on all heterosexuals. Especially, despite the fact I can't say for certain, but I would imagine their would be very similar sites for heterosexuals.

Originally posted by FeceMan
www.mardigrasstreetfairboysmen.com.

-http://heterosexual.fubarnewscorporation.com/free-heterosexual-porn.html

-straight.theater.moviemonster.com/dispatcher/movieDetail?movieId=63855

-www.piratesxxx.com

Take a look at those heterosexual babies droolio

Then come back and tell me that Homosexuals are reckless again in comparison to Heterosexuals...

*Note:Moderators, those links are unclickable, and not intended for spamming, but intended to prove a point to Feceman...

Originally posted by FeceMan
I'm not even joking with that address, but be careful--if I've typed it correctly--as it's obviously (or so I would hope it would be) not safe for work, school, or a semblance of goodness.

You're link doesn't even work...and the address says error..did you just make a website out of your head ?

Originally posted by FeceMan
no rly?

✅ Yuh huh yuh huh yuh huh ✅

Originally posted by FeceMan
*Sighs.* Because there is one God, one Maker of the heavens and the Earth, one Alpha and Omega, one who has made all that was, is, and forevermore shall be, and He has ordained all things as they should be.

Prove it ....

Originally posted by FeceMan
"God's will" is the reason we exist. Face this and move on.

WE are the reason God exists.... face this and move on.

Originally posted by FeceMan
And what about what is right and good? Or is that concept so foreign to your liberal eyes?

"Right and Good" are the only things my Liberal Eyes focus on....

Right and Good defined by REASON AND LOGIC not by an outdated dusty book....

Originally posted by FeceMan
All I said is that these...platitudes are tossed about and they are seen as a symptom of moral decay.

And your point being ? What does this have to do with Gay Marriage ?

Originally posted by FeceMan
I could ask you that any number of times, and yet I choose not to do so.

Ask and you will recieve an answer.....do not ask, and you will remain in Ignorance....oh wait...that's what you find comfort in.... 🙄

Originally posted by FeceMan
My age matters not, for I am more mature than you in all my aspects. Perhaps you would tell me your age and schooling? It may help shed some light on your influences and biases...and your moral turpitude...

Oh wow, you really are scared aren't you? 😆

Okay, well since my balls are bigger than yours, I'll answer your question..in full detail:

Age: 20, will be 21 in April
Schooling History:

Our Lady of Fatima- grades 1-8
St. Francis Preparatory High School- grades freshmen to senior
School of Visual Arts- freshman to junior
Nassau Community College- one summer semester

Now...come on Feceman...be a MAN and let's have it: Ur age and background please 🙂

Originally posted by Bardock42
What is wrong with you, Fece?

That's not the way you would argue a month ago. What happened?

Right now you seem no better than whob, JesusisAlive, sithsaber, Nellinator and all the others that just use their Bible quotes and "God said it" to justify their harmful behaviour.

I've said my piece in here and listened to all sides. I've certainly evaluated my thoughts and feelings on gay people and realized how I was being unfair and condescending to devalue them.

I may or may not agree with gay marriage, and even when arguing incorrectly or from a simpler idea of genetics.....

I NEVER ONCE used a Bible quote or posted "God said it." in any of my points.

Leave your issues with Christianity out of it when you address me, just as I left my Christianity out of it when I addressed you.

🙂

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I've said my piece in here and listened to all sides. I've certainly evaluated my thoughts and feelings on gay people and realized how I was being unfair and condescending to devalue them.

I may or may not agree with gay marriage, and even when arguing incorrectly or from a simpler idea of genetics.....

I NEVER ONCE used a Bible quote or posted "God said it." in any of my points.

Leave your issues with Christianity out of it when you address me, just as I left my Christianity out of it when I addressed you.

🙂

True. I apologize.

👆 Accepted.

Carry on. 😛

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well I promised you a response today and here it is:

First, can't agree that human beings are animals. We are far different in areas of thinking, dreams, hopes, expression, education, etc...

Second, I may have sounded like Whob in a few places, but that was not my intent! I really didn't like his tone with people or his habit of posting needless smilies and crap.

But more importantly....I don't hate you. (or Adam or Draco or anybody else who is gay.) I don't want you to not exist or not find happiness.

Honestly, I don't. In the PM I sent you I told you that reading that gave me pause and made me think about things.

I see that my posts have been condescending and probably demeaning in that while I never outright insulted you, I made it plain that I felt your behavior/attractions/desires/ etc... were unhealthy, unnatural, and not normal.

I can see where that would make you feel like crap, and feel that I'm a jerk.

Again, I don't want that to be how you feel.

So, I see (and always did, mind you) that gay people are just people, like any other.

They laugh and dream and hope and fear and love.

I get that, and would never try to devalue you as a person.

So gay people are good people, perhaps better than straights at times for putting up with the TRUE bigots that want to beat you or ridicule you for something that you didn't choose, something that you have no control over (talking desires/attractions), and something that is part of who you are.

No more bashing or condescending talk to gay people, at least not from me. 🙂

So now, I have to think: Gay people are not any better or worse than I or anybody else is, they just do things different.

Now what you do different is not "normal" I guess, but then as I said in the PM, neither is my obsessive love of Starwars or coffee.

I wouldn't count any type of normality, or abnormality as being more significant than any other.

So, you don't use the sex organs as they "should" be used (pro-creation, etc..).... ok.

I know that you doing that, even you doing that in a committed relationship with another man.....will have absolutely NO EFFECT on my marriage, which will stand or fall on it's own.

I've always stated the opinion that I support civil unions, so that the gay couple is entitled to FULL tax breaks and benefits and has a commitment ceremony of their choosing if they wish.

I guess gay marriage itself isn't much different, other than to say that homosexuality is completely and totally just as natural and normal as a straight marriage.

And that's where the issue comes up for me, because I don't believe that it is.

I don't believe that we should tell our society and the next generation of kids coming up behind us that it is.

We tell them in sex ed. that men and women have sex, functions of the penis, scrotum, semen, and sperm and we tell them the functions of the vagina, it's natural lubrication, ovulation, menstrual cycles and of course.. conception.

That is human sexuality and what the human sex organs (at least by functions) seem to be designed for.

Then you should of course mention homosexuality, and I would say something like: "And there are many other people who don't feel that urge to mate with the opposite sex, who are drawn towards the same sex, and don't use their sexual organs for those functions. They are people and worthy of respect and love like any other, and just follow a different path for whatever undetermined reason."

Because as far as I can tell, it is (as of now) not known why some people are gay. Many theory's abound from choice, to developmental factors, to genetics, but none has been proven conclusively as to why some people don't feel like following the biological design for sex.

If you feel as I do, that development and influence and experiences play the biggest role, then it's hard to say that I want homosexuality taught as perfectly normal or have gay marriages, further reinforcing an unproven point.

I'll use my wife as an example. When she was 12-15, she wasn't very feminine. She dressed in big baggy jeans, hooded sweatshirts, and bandannas.

She was a total tomboy, interested in playing rough sports like football and soccer. She didn't want much to do with the girly-girls, who were into make up and boys. In fact, most of her friends were guys as she found more in common with them.

She has told me very clearly that she felt unattractive (her weight was part of this), and not desirable by boys. She didn't feel feminine and was unhappy.

(I have a few pics of her from this time, but on pain of death from her I can't post them.) 😛

Many of you have seen her pics now, and know that she is very pretty, very feminine, into fancy clothes and make-up and so on.

She got her confidence built up by family and friends, lost a little weight, developed through high-school..... and she's straight. (good for me.)

But in the culture that is being pushed forward now, she would have been told that she was gay.

That would have been the answer. "You know, there's a good chance that you don't feel pretty or desirable to boys and you don't like feminine things because you're meant to be with women. You should see if this is true, don't be afraid of it."

A seed is planted and grows in her mind. Maybe she seeks out a girl and trys it. Maybe it's different and she's not sure, but likes the acceptance and attention. Maybe she keeps trying it and it becomes her way of finding love, so she sticks with it and learns to like it.

At 14 or 15 it's not so hard to imagine that happening as her mind, emotions, beliefs, and of course body are still developing into the final result she will have as an adult.

Since she went to a private school and wasn't around the culture that supports those ideas I have my wife, but it's easy to say that it could have turned out much different.

As it is now, they are telling 12 year old boys that they are gay, without even waiting to see if a hormone growth in teenage years may have him start liking girls. I wasn't even seriously looking at girls until 14, so it's hard to say to a child that young that he's gay.

I guess I'm rambling here, but the point is to say that I don't want anything bad to happen to you, I want you to be happy, I don't want you to hate yourself or be hated for your alternative lifestyle.

But it is the alternative and not the designed path. That truth should always be present and not overlooked or discarded. Very good, I'll PM you for the answers as to how I've misunderstood the genetics.

A post in here explaining the genetics of homosexuality may be good as well, since it is the main point used to argue homosexuality is how a person "IS" versus the argument that homosexuality is how a person "has been formed into." Will do.

As the Accountant/Operations Manager for a nation-wide fundraising supplier, dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars a day and many transactions and lines of credit on multiple accounts..... I'd hate to be off in my math. 😛 ... I know.

For what it's worth, I'm trying not to be disrespectful or condescending to any person of any persuasion since we all bleed the same red blood.

Peace.

You do not hate gay people, you do not want for gay people to be unhappy, and you do not want to devalue gay people, but you do not think that the relationships of gay people should be considered equal to the relationships of straight people.

Civil unions and domestic partnerships only provide 350 of the 1,400 benefits and protections of marriage, and are not recognized from state-to-state, or by the federal government. Why should gay couples settle for a quarter when straight couples get a whole pie?

If you would like to discuss the nature of homosexuality, there is a 271 page thread devoted to the subject.

You will note that there is no conclusive evidence as to the cause of heterosexuality, yet this has never been cited as a sufficient reason to teach adolescents that heterosexuality is abnormal or to deny opposite-sex couples the right to marry. Why should homosexuality be held to a different standard?

Especially considering that the immutability of sexual orientation is irrelevant to whether or not same-sex couples, and the over one million children in the United States who are being raised by same-sex couples, deserve equal protection under the law as guaranteed to every American by the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
You do not hate gay people, you do not want for gay people to be unhappy, and you do not want to devalue gay people, but you do not think that the relationships of gay people should be considered equal to the relationships of straight people.

Civil unions and domestic partnerships only provide 350 of the 1,400 benefits and protections of marriage, and are not recognized from state-to-state, or by the federal government. Why should gay couples settle for a quarter when straight couples get a whole pie?

If you would like to discuss the nature of homosexuality, there is a 271 page thread devoted to the subject.

You will note that there is no conclusive evidence as to the cause of heterosexuality, yet this has never been cited as a sufficient reason to teach adolescents that heterosexuality is abnormal or to deny opposite-sex couples the right to marry. Why should homosexuality be held to a different standard?

Especially considering that the immutability of sexual orientation is irrelevant to whether or not same-sex couples, and the over one million children in the United States who are being raised by same-sex couples, deserve equal protection under the law as guaranteed to every American by the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.

Well said.

Indeed.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well said.

Originally posted by Alliance
Indeed.

Let us see if it gets a response.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Let us see if it gets a response.

You know exactly what to expect 🙄

He's gonna give you some Conservative lecture about how he cares about you, and people like us, because JEsus loves all yada yada yada, but how we chose our unnatural lifestyle, how we are doing something against God's will, and how we do have the right to marry as long as we choose a heterosexual relationship...etc.etc.

He will continue to insist that he is not trying to offend us, even though he will continue to call our sexuality unnatural and corrupt, while hinting that our relationships are somehow invalid...

I'm done arguing with him, he's closed minded beyond hope.

^^^^Funny that I'm the close minded one, yet its YOU who keeps mentioining God or scripture or whatever in this thread.

I've never brought religion into this discussion and as shown by Bardock, saying so is factually wrong.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Let us see if it gets a response.

I'm doing something at work and don't wanna short change you with an answer that isn't fair or thought-out.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
^^^^Funny that I'm the close minded one, yet its YOU who keeps mentioining God or scripture or whatever in this thread

You still bring up non-factual points, so does it really matter ? 🙄

You keep insisting how homosexuality is "unnatural" even though that has been proven wrong, you keep insisting how our relationships are somehow invalid or inferior to your own, and you can't see how antagonizing and hateful that is ?

Get outta here already....im finding that the next point you make will just result in further laughter...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I don't wanna short change you with an answer that isn't fair or thought-out.

Is that a joke?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
In about 10 min.

I'm doing something at work and don't wanna short change you with an answer that isn't fair or thought-out.

Longest ten minutes of my life.

Well, I just bump this because sithy recently re-issued his promise of answering, but only in a PM to Adam Poe. Since I am quite interested in the answer too, I'd be glad if he'd post it here. It is quite relevant to the topic anyways. Which might still be good for a laugh or two...I mean....serious conversation. Anyways, this should be good, Gauß changed mathematics in half the time sithsabry had to think up his reply.

So, go.

Yay for rights!!!

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

😂 and they say our country isnt turning into a socialist nation

Well, I did take a long 10 min., didn't I? 😛

In all honesty, I'd forgotten about this thread until it was just brought up again.

Looking back, I spent most of the thread bashing gays (in a polite and friendly way by calling them illegitamite and unnatural) without using any religion.

Funny now then, that having grown deeper in my relationship with the Lord, my answer will be full of God stuff (like my life is at this point) and will refute all that I posted before.

In short, I believe that all people are loved by God.

Gay, straight, or otherwise.

I believe that they were all created by Him. (through sex of course, but the person... the thoughts, feelings, dreams, etc... is a miracle creation of God)

I believe that our personalities, our character, and who we are as individuals is all designed by God, for a specific purpose and calling that only each individual would be able to accomplish.

(though many people don't ever seek out... or if made aware, then decide to take ahold of... that purpose.)

I believe that God loves gay people. Just as they are, he loves them.

And if He does, and His son Jesus died out of love FOR THEM, then I love them too. Because Christ is love personified (and God personified) and Christ is in me, through the Holy Spirit.

After all: "He that loveth not, knoweth not God. For God is love. Beloved, let us love one another." 1 John 4:7-8

My life now is much more about people, about the teens that I mentor and teach. About families that I minister to. About the young couples that I fellowship with and pray over.

It's about actually getting into peoples lives and seeing them set free, in every way: spiritually, health, finances, burdens, etc...

Thats what Christianity is about, and that's what church is about. (supposed to be, anyway)

It's not about political activism and "hot-button issues."

The Church isn't a building, a tool, or a voters block to be wielded like some weapon..... it's people. People are called the Church, the Body of Christ, in the bible. And that's what these things mean to me.

So I guess you could say that I have a totally different perspective on the "gay issue" now.

Politics and such aren't very important to me anymore and I'm busy working on what MY calling is, the one that only I can achieve. (through Christ.)

To Adam PoE and Devil King (who will now and forever always be 'Cap 😛 ) and any others who I was insensitive and cruel to...

I can only offer my sincerest apologies and hope that they are accepted.