Deathstroke versus Ultimate Captain America

Originally posted by Warmonger
Agree. He isa great fighter but not top tier he is just physically superior to most street levelers as well as has an advanced mind. Without his powers Id think Slade would fall some where in the 4th or 5th teir of martial arts.

1st Tei: Shiva, Richard Dragon, Cassandra
2nd Teir: Bronze Tiger, Batman
3rd: Nightwing
4th: Black Canary

???Slade

5th: Robin, Jason Todd, whovever

I agree but I think Jason Todd goes higher. Personally I think he's above Nightwing but at the very least he's on the same level

Jason Todd should be in a level between Batman and Nightwing - he's a better fighter than Nightwing, but not QUITE Batman's level. In my opinion, at least.

Also, Batman has a winning record against Shiva, and has stalemated Richard Dragon. He has also stalemated Cassandra Cain on at least two occasions, and actually BEAT her on a third. But, during one of the stalemates? He used a single hand for most of the fight, while telling her how piss poor her technique is.

Batman is tier 1. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Originally posted by Soljer
Jason Todd should be in a level between Batman and Nightwing - he's a better fighter than Nightwing, but not QUITE Batman's level. In my opinion, at least.

Also, Batman has a winning record against Shiva, and has stalemated Richard Dragon. He has also stalemated Cassandra Cain on at least two occasions, and actually BEAT her on a third. But, during one of the stalemates? He used a single hand for most of the fight, while telling her how piss poor her technique is.

Batman is tier 1. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Batman has never beat Shiva in fair one on one combat, he has admited it. He stalemated Richarad Dragon only because Dragon was holding back and didn't want to fight... and when has Batman ever beat Cass?

Oh, you might want to mention how after Batman told Cass how poor her technique was, he started coughing up blood. I think that makes it pretty clear who actually won that little training bout... unless you think Batman came down with a breif case of tuberculosis.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Yeah BOP#90: HEad Shots. Fight starts with Huntress firing three crossbow shots while Black Canary simultaniously does some sort of flying snap kick. HE sidesteps the shots but seems to go right into her kick (or out of I'm not sure what the artist intended) and gets kicked in the head by Canary. Who says that he let here get that shot so that she could see she couldn't hurt him. He smacks her and she goes flying.

Then he closes with Helena parries her fist steps into her guardand backhands her in the face. Some big dumb guy named Creote tries to jump him but Slade flip tosses him over his head. Balck Canarygoesat himagain but she feints and draws a breath as if she is going to scream. beforeshe can let the breath out he breaks her arm like a twig since he knew the pain would makle her lose her scream. However Huntresswho waslying on the ground stabs him in the calf with her crossbow bolts. This staggers him for three seconds which isjust enough time for Canary to come up on Slade's blind side and jam two fingers into his good eye.

He reels back but mentions that his eye will heal and that he doesn't need to see them to kill them. (alluding to his heightned senses)Their kind of in standoff and start bluffing each other,but Slade is stillstanding Canary, Huntress and Creote are down.

I was talking about here post 1 Year Later training, when Shiva replaced her on the BoP and Canary went to the Vietnam (I think) and underwent Shiva's training process. World of difference between the two.

Wow. CBR Batgirl in action.

Batman would kick her ass if he actually put forth good effort.

That Leopard Blow would mess her up to no end.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman has never beat Shiva in fair one on one combat, he has admited it. He stalemated Richarad Dragon only because Dragon was holding back and didn't want to fight... and when has Batman ever beat Cass?

Oh, you might want to mention how after Batman told Cass how poor her technique was, he started coughing up blood. I think that makes it pretty clear who actually won that little training bout... unless you think Batman came down with a breif case of tuberculosis.

Batman has never beat Shiva in fair one on one combat, he has admited it. He stalemated Richarad Dragon only because Dragon was holding back and didn't want to fight... and when has Batman ever beat Cass?

Oh, you might want to mention how after Batman told Cass how poor her technique was, he started coughing up blood. I think that makes it pretty clear who actually won that little training bout... unless you think Batman came down with a breif case of tuberculosis.

Clear who won? Its clear it was a draw, Cass was on the floor and Batman coughed blood neither won....draw.

The first fight Batman had a small advantage with a pressure point strike on Cass's neck but it was more of a sparring match.

Another sparring match Bats tested to see if Cass could body read and Cass dodged Batman easily.....draw.

Batman 50 both were under drugs as neither won again....draw.

Your right Batman has never beaten Shiva but Shiva has never beaten Batman either. So at the end of the day Batman is still at that A list level with Shiva and Cass.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Clear who won? Its clear it was a draw, Cass was on the floor and Batman coughed blood neither won....draw.

The first fight Batman had a small advantage with a pressure point strike on Cass's neck but it was more of a sparring match.

Another sparring match Bats tested to see if Cass could body read and Cass dodged Batman easily.....draw.

Batman 50 both were under drugs as neither won again....draw.

Your right Batman has never beaten Shiva but Shiva has never beaten Batman either. So at the end of the day Batman is still at that A list level with Shiva and Cass.

If someone hits you hard enough, or in such a way that they are doing internal damage and you don't even know it, then you didn't win the fight... calling that a stalemate, is ridiculous.

And in the fight where they were both on drugs Batman was on defence the entire fight. Cass controlled the fight, Batman was on the run and using gadgets... and all she was trying to do was kiss him. She just trying to kiss Bruce and he couldn't even hold his ground in a fight...

Shiva has never beaten Batman, because they have never had a fair one on one fight. If they did, he would lose, he knows, DC knows, I know and in your heart of hearts so do you. 🙁

Cass is better then Batman
Dragon is better then Batman
Shiva is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman

Ignore people like Madog, Alpha, and Drakon (all of whom are also better then Batman), those are the top four MA's in DC... and it is hardly a matter of opinion.

Yeah, Canary's skills seemed to have gotten a boost in the last couple of years.

I would put her only below Batman level in terms of JLA heroes and overall put her in the 3rd-tier

And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.

No he didn't. He landed a few punches but she completely wreaked him... even though she is mind controlled or some junk. He looked like he had been put through a meat grinder.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If someone hits you hard enough, or in such a way that they are doing internal damage and you don't even know it, then you didn't win the fight... calling that a stalemate, is ridiculous.

And in the fight where they were both on drugs Batman was on defence the entire fight. Cass controlled the fight, Batman was on the run and using gadgets... and all she was trying to do was kiss him. She just trying to kiss Bruce and he couldn't even hold his ground in a fight...

Shiva has never beaten Batman, because they have never had a fair one on one fight. If they did, he would lose, he knows, DC knows, I know and in your heart of hearts so do you. 🙁

Cass is better then Batman
Dragon is better then Batman
Shiva is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman

Ignore people like Madog, Alpha, and Drakon (all of whom are also better then Batman), those are the top four MA's in DC... and it is hardly a matter of opinion.

You need to recheck Batman 50 as BG clearly landed hits as so did Bruce as well. As Nightwing pretty much stopped Bruce from hitting BG at one point of the fight. And Bats wasn't even trying as he didn't want to fight to begin with.

Plus did you ever stop to consider that the coughing of blood came from inside his mouth.

You keep on saying Bats would lose without any actuall proof, I see you ignore the match were Bruce had Cass with a pressure-point on her neck in Detective-comics.

And the fact that you say Connar Hawk is better shows all you say is opinion and not what is shown on book.

Slade goes down hard.

Originally posted by Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.

Do you know the issue number/title for that book?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You need to recheck Batman 50 as BG clearly landed hits as so did Bruce as well. As Nightwing pretty much stopped Bruce from hitting BG at one point of the fight. And Bats wasn't even trying as he didn't want to fight to begin with.

Plus did you ever stop to consider that the coughing of blood came from inside his mouth.

You keep on saying Bats would lose without any actuall proof, I see you ignore the match were Bruce had Cass with a pressure-point on her neck in Detective-comics.

And the fact that you say Connar Hawk is better shows all you say is opinion and not what is shown on book.

👆

Originally posted by Juntai
And then Tim Drake whooped Cass.

Yeah, she's better than Batman.
lol.

Cass Is so mcuh better than
Example A
These scans show Robin getting his ass kicked by Shrike and then Batgirl coming in to save the day putting down shirke with ease.

http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58049sv.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58055pa.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58062vv.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58074wg.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58087at.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batgirl58090zv.jpg

Example B
Cass owning tim again while training him
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage286wd.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage292th.jpg

Example C
Batgirl takes down a group of thugs with high powered guns before Batgirl can even react.
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage326cy.jpg
http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanalliespage334ea.jpg

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You need to recheck Batman 50 as BG clearly landed hits as so did Bruce as well. As Nightwing pretty much stopped Bruce from hitting BG at one point of the fight. And Bats wasn't even trying as he didn't want to fight to begin with.

Plus did you ever stop to consider that the coughing of blood came from inside his mouth.

You keep on saying Bats would lose without any actuall proof, I see you ignore the match were Bruce had Cass with a pressure-point on her neck in Detective-comics.

And the fact that you say Connar Hawk is better shows all you say is opinion and not what is shown on book.

Your mouth is were blood generally exists when you cough it up... 😕

What does Bruce landing hits have do withing anything? Of course he landed hits, just because he isn't as skilled as Batgirl doesn't mean he is an invilid. And Batman was trying to avoid a fight at the very beginning, when they were in the grave yard, not the whole fight. He wanted to fight, and he was trying to win. Thats why he was using Bat'o'rangs and flash pellets; hell, he dumbed an entire load of lumber of a train welling trying to get the upper hand. Why do you think Dick thought he needed to stop Bruce from fighting if he wasn't serious? Fact is Cass was in control the whole fight, and all she was trying to do was kiss Batman.

The fight in Detective Comics was just Batman and Cass communicating, it was a friendly spar... one that happened right after Batgirl regain consciousness from a several story fall.

Lady Shiva thinks Connar is better then Batman... Nightwing implied that Connar was better. Why would that be? Maybe cause Connar is a better fighter then Batman?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Your mouth is were blood generally exists when you cough it up... 😕

What does Bruce landing hits have do withing anything? Of course he landed hits, just because he isn't as skilled as Batgirl doesn't mean he is an invilid. And Batman was trying to avoid a fight at the very beginning, when they were in the grave yard, not the whole fight. He wanted to fight, and he was trying to win. Thats why he was using Bat'o'rangs and flash pellets; hell, he dumbed an entire load of lumber of a train welling trying to get the upper hand. Why do you think Dick thought he needed to stop Bruce from fighting if he wasn't serious? Fact is Cass was in control the whole fight, and all she was trying to do was kiss Batman.

The fight in Detective Comics was just Batman and Cass communicating, it was a friendly spar... one that happened right after Batgirl regain consciousness from a several story fall.

Lady Shiva thinks Connar is better then Batman... Nightwing implied that Connar was better. Why would that be? Maybe cause Connar is a better fighter then Batman?

Blood can come from the gums to the inside of our cheeks you know, to even our tongue.

She was only trying to kiss him up close but on the outside she was fighting him. Also Bats was on the defensive because he wasn't trying to fight and was probably still holding back, so I doubt he was using his weapons lethally. Point is stalemate which you want to try to ignore.

The Detective fight she did fell but it showed Batman plunging for her as well. It never showed Cass hit the ground and it no were showed Batman grabbing her either, so the scene is irrelevant. Bats had the upperhand in that battle.

Nightwing implied it by ranking since Batman has not fought a full out fight with Shiva. But if you look at his record against Shiva its not too Shabby.

First fight Shiva was testing Bruce and Batman dodged her two strikes easily.

Second fight Robin interrupted the fight but Batman held his own unarmed, while Shiva used a weapons nun-chucks to be exact.

Third fight Batman easily defeated a mind-controlled Shiva. Which I don't count but the above fights demonstrate the exact opposite of what your saying.

Do you have any type of actuall proof to show that Bats would lose like you know showing Cass straight up KO Bats or Shiva KO Bats?

sounsd like someones being outnumbered!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If someone hits you hard enough, or in such a way that they are doing internal damage and you don't even know it, then you didn't win the fight... calling that a stalemate, is ridiculous.

And in the fight where they were both on drugs Batman was on defence the entire fight. Cass controlled the fight, Batman was on the run and using gadgets... and all she was trying to do was kiss him. She just trying to kiss Bruce and he couldn't even hold his ground in a fight...

Shiva has never beaten Batman, because they have never had a fair one on one fight. If they did, he would lose, he knows, DC knows, I know and in your heart of hearts so do you. 🙁

Cass is better then Batman
Dragon is better then Batman
Shiva is better then Batman
Connar Hawke is better then Batman

Ignore people like Madog, Alpha, and Drakon (all of whom are also better then Batman), those are the top four MA's in DC... and it is hardly a matter of opinion.

👆