Tolkein was a "prophet".

Originally posted by Alfheim

Tolkein studied heathenism so much that he even developed his own language Elvish. As far as I know Tolkein did not create this language from scratch (well its impossble to create anything from scratch, everything has an influence) and is actually based on heathen languages.

Originally posted by Regret
Tolkein hated having his work considered allegory.

Well I said that it was based on Norse lore.....am I wrong?

Originally posted by Regret

Tolkein created the Elvish language from scratch,

Originally posted by Regret

although I doubt it did not incidentally include aspects of languages he knew of, his profession was linguist, and he spent many years defining the language.

Well thats what I said.....

Originally posted by Alfheim

Tolkein studied heathenism so much that he even developed his own language Elvish. As far as I know Tolkein did not create this language from scratch (well its impossble to create anything from scratch, everything has an influence) and is actually based on heathen languages.

Originally posted by Regret

Tolkein's books were meant to create a modern mythology for the world at the time, he saw that the mythology was dying off and becoming lost, he viewed this as a sad thing and endeavored to create a new and lasting mythology.

Well yeah I know that.

Originally posted by Regret

Do some real research before making statements about great men.

Well I said that the LOTR was based on Norse Lore. Am I wrong?

I didnt actually say that it was allegorical but obvoulsy it dealt with issues that the present world was dealing with.

With all due respecty it just seems like your telling me off for no reason.

An allegory is an abstract representation of some idea or principle. Tolkien hated his works being considered allegorical. They were not some abstract representation of the problems of the world or any other such rubbish. He was a linguist, he understood the full meaning of the term "allegorical".

They were not based in existent mythologies, no. They were intended to be new.

Originally posted by Slyððering
Alfheim: Irregardless of influences, Tolkien did invent his Elvish languages "from scratch," sketching out an entire faux linguistic-history.

So he created the language out of thin air? Obvously he based on other languages.

Originally posted by Slyððering

And I think you're reading far too heavily into the prevalence of Tolkien's work: It is a piece of fiction, a story of morals and the success of good over evil. I agree that it was certainly designed to be a mold of Northern Germanic and Christian religious-themes. But comparison with the Bible, or any other Holy Scripture? Is that anything other than blasphemy?

Remember im just discussing this im not saying he is a prophet im just saying its subjective. LOTR is a story about morals and triumph over evil, so is the Bible.

Originally posted by Slyððering

EDIT: His name is spelt Tolkien, by the way.

If you look at the title thats how its spelt. serioulsy when you say things like that it gives the impression you dindt come to discuss but argue.

Originally posted by Regret
An allegory is an abstract representation of some idea or principle. Tolkien hated his works being considered allegorical. They were not some abstract representation of the problems of the world or any other such rubbish. He was a linguist, he understood the full meaning of the term "allegorical".

They were not based in existent mythologies, no. They were intended to be new.

Serioulsy you dont know what you're talking about you need to read some stories from the Norse tradition. Tolkien got the names of characters and concepts from Norse lore.

Originally posted by Regret
They were not based in existent mythologies, no. They were intended to be new.

😕

Despite similarites to Norse Mythology?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
😕

Despite similarites to Norse Mythology?

Exactly. Its so obvious I dont even want to get into it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
😕

Despite similarites to Norse Mythology?

Originally posted by Regret
Similar does not mean based in. Tolkien's works are similar to a large number of mythologies, they are not based in these mythologies.

This sounds like semantics to me. Whats your defintion of based.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So he created the language out of thin air? Obvously he based on other languages.

Remember im just discussing this im not saying he is a prophet im just saying its subjective. LOTR is a story about morals and triumph over evil, so is the Bible.

If you look at the title thats how its spelt. serioulsy when you say things like that it gives the impression you dindt come to discuss but argue.

Serioulsy you dont know what you're talking about you need to read some stories from the Norse tradition. Tolkien got the names of characters and concepts from Norse lore.

What? STAR WARS is a moral story of good conquering evil. Does that make George Lucas a prophet?

Tolkien did not create his languages out of thin air. Quenya shows obvious influences from Finnish, and Sindarin from Welsh, but you the way in which you stated it, you made it sound as if Tolkien somehow stole parts from languages and turned them into his own language. Tolkien spent nearly all his life developing and perfecting his languages, and one could say with some certainty that they had far removed themselves from their influences by the time of their creator's death.

Being someone who has studied Tolkien for most of his personal and professional life, I think I may know what I'm talking about.

And BTW, his surname is not spelt properly in the title, so please, do not patronize me.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This sounds like semantics to me. Whats your defintion of based.

Originally posted by Regret
Similar does not mean based in. Tolkien's works are similar to a large number of mythologies, they are not based in these mythologies.

He was a smart well read person who had a large amount of exposure to Norse and Old English mythology. The idea that they had no influence is kind of odd.

Originally posted by Slyððering
His surname is not spelt properly in the title, so please, do not patronize me.

you're behaving like an idiot. Calm down and think how you would approach this in real life and not on the internet, I don't think you'd do anything because you're probably a coward.

Originally posted by Regret
Based would be wholly originated from. Tolkien drew from various cultures and mythologies in the creation of middle earth, I do not deny this, but the books are not based in any single mythology. They are meant as a new mythology amalgamated from the various European mythologies that were dying off.

Oh I get what you're saying.

But an amaglamation is still based on many different mythologies even though it is unique in and of itself.

Originally posted by Regret
Based would be wholly originated from. Tolkien drew from various cultures and mythologies in the creation of middle earth, I do not deny this, but the books are not based in any single mythology. They are meant as a new mythology amalgamated from the various European mythologies that were dying off. Finnish, Welsh, Celtic, Norse are all in there, and probably others I am unaware of.

I partially disagree. Close inspection points to Tolkien drawing more heavily from the myths of the Norsemen and the Finns than any other, although the term "Middle-earth" is common to many.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
you're behaving like an idiot. Calm down and think how you would approach this in real life and not on the internet, I don't think you'd do anything because you're probably a coward.

I'm sorry if I've offended you, but I dislike being patronized by someone who has no idea what he's talking about.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Oh I get what you're saying.

But an amaglamation is still based on many different mythologies even though it is unique in and of itself.

Originally posted by Slyððering

His surname is not spelt properly in the title, so please, do not patronize me.

Ok fair enough, anyway forget it I htought you were just being patronizeing. Anyway do you want to reply to my toher comments.

Originally posted by Regret
Based would be wholly originated from. Tolkien drew from various cultures and mythologies in the creation of middle earth, I do not deny this, but the books are not based in any single mythology.

Originally posted by Regret

They are meant as a new mythology amalgamated from the various European mythologies that were dying off. Finnish, Welsh, Celtic, Norse are all in there, and probably others I am unaware of.

Well this is the thing eventhough I mentioned Norse lore obvoulsy if you study Norse lore and culture you will know that the above cultures you mentioned would have influenced Norse culture. So its like your stating the obvious to me, maybe I did not make myself clear enough. Except for the Finns those other cultures you mentioned are Indo-European. Im actually interested in doing research on The Finns because in the Alfish aspects of Norse Lore they are very important. Also the Celts mixed with alot of Germanic tribes and would have obvoulsy influenced Norse lore.

So by default if you study Norse lore you will study other cultures.

Originally posted by Slyððering
I'm sorry if I've offended you, but I dislike being patronized by someone who has no idea what he's talking about.

Thanks for the apology and I'm sorry for my overly foreward manner.

Originally posted by Slyððering

I'm sorry if I've offended you, but I dislike being patronized by someone who has no idea what he's talking about.

So basically because I made a small mistake with the spelling I dont know what im talking about. So verything else ive been saying is rubbish?

I think you should all calm down. Tolkien was a great writer we all appreciate that, isn't that enough? Is there really a need to go into debates about Elvish and morals?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is the thing eventhough I mentioned Norse lore obvoulsy if you study Norse lore and culture you will know that the above cultures you mentioned would have influenced Norse culture. So its like your stating the obvious to me, maybe I did not make myself clear enough. Except for the Finns those other cultures you mentioned are Indo-European. Im actually interested in doing research on The Finns because in the Alfish aspects of Norse Lore they are very important. Also the Celts mixed with alot of Germanic tribes and would have obvoulsy influenced Norse lore.

So by default if you study Norse lore you will study other cultures.

I was arguing semantics, but to state "based in Norse mythology" is a bit more narrow a statement than I believe Tolkien's works deserve.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So basically because I made a small mistake with the spelling I dont know what im talking about. So verything else ive been saying is rubbish?

I shouldn't have said that. But I still find your comparison of one work of fiction to the most popular and perhaps most highly-regarded religious text....well, blasphemous.

Ah, perhaps I've been too literal. Tolkien didn't steal from Norse mythology, but used it as a base upon which to structure what he defined (in the fictional context) as the "true mythology," from which all stories ultimately derive. But the influence of mythology (in general) is better seen in The Silmarillion. LotR has modern touches which make it more alluring to modern audiences.