Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I think it's the energy manipulators and mages that are overpowered. Your surfers, GLs, Etrigans, and Dr. Stranges can pretty much do whatever they want.
true...
Originally posted by "V"
No, I said he was boyscoutish and unflawed I never meant to link the two.
My bad...
52 isn't as big an event as Civil War? How many civil war books/tie ins have their been? I'm not sure. But seeing as 3 out of the 7 top Marvel titles were Civil War I don't see how it's too reliant.
This is the civil war checklist for january alone (though i dont know if all the titles were released)
CIVIL WAR #7
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #537
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #538
BLACK PANTHER #24
BLADE #5 (Casualties of War)
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #10
FANTASTIC FOUR #542
FANTASTIC FOUR #543
MOON KNIGHT #10 (Casualties of War)
PUNISHER: WAR JOURNAL #3
52 is like, one comic... and i still wouldnt consider it to be as big in dc's eyes as civil war is in marvel's...
Wolverine, AMS and USM would still have outsold 52. That just shows you it's not THAT reliant upon it, 52 is an event the last time I checked 😕 just because it's weekly doesnt mean it isnt.
i wouldnt look at 52 as being an event in the mould of civil war or IC, its a novel idea, and its only running for 52 issues, but i see it as more as a leadin to whatevers to come...
its not 52 that i would rate as being a big dc seller... its the jsa, jla, superman and batman books that to me would be their biggest titles...
WW3 is yeah, I'm actually looking forward to that, Ostranger is on board for a suicide squad mini right? Sigh me up for that.
is luthor starting up the new squad?
I agree, they aren't whored out AS badly. But DC isn't innocent of whoring out their characters either. Only point i'm making.
I know, and i agree... ✅
Originally posted by "V"
BTW, can anyone tell me why JLA only got 66th out of the top 100? Is it really selling that badly? Wow 😐
its a relatively new series, i think it needs a little time to build its readership, but i see some pretty good potential there...
Fair enough, agree to disagree.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97594
That's the newsarama thread about it, Haven't actually read the article yet. But I'm definetly picking it up to be honest, original suicide squad was awesome, this should be just as good. I hope.
Originally posted by pr1983
its a relatively new series, i think it needs a little time to build its readership, but i see some pretty good potential there...
Dude, it's JLA.. You'd expect it to sell loads just because it has the name on it. Just like most books with Civil War slapped on the title, JLA is DC's premier team book, you'd think it'd be in the top ten sales wise.
I don't care too much though, JSA pwns ass.
Originally posted by "V"
Fair enough, agree to disagree.http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97594
That's the newsarama thread about it, Haven't actually read the article yet. But I'm definetly picking it up to be honest, original suicide squad was awesome, this should be just as good. I hope.
we did go way off topic didn't we...
looks good... there seems to be high expectations for ostrander's return...
Originally posted by "V"
Dude, it's JLA.. You'd expect it to sell loads just because it has the name on it. Just like most books with Civil War slapped on the title, JLA is DC's premier team book, you'd think it'd be in the top ten sales wise.I don't care too much though, JSA pwns ass.
its a new line up, i think it'll be a month or two before it starts hitting the top ten, but i fully expect it to do well...
jsa is very, very good... have to say i prefer jla though...
This already happened in a story called The last son of earth where Johnathan Kent genius scientist shoots a space ship into space with Clark Kent infant inside sending him to krypton where he spent most of his life contained in a harness so his body would not be crushed in Kryptons Gravity suddenly he found a GL ring from Aben Sur stopped Krypton from exploding and blah blah good story from what I heard wish I could have seen the whole thing.
You know, there is one general consensus that alot of people agree on: Marvel has shit writing. 😛 I'm serious, I've never liked Marvel's writing. It's always so full of itself.
DC may be getting outsold by Marvel, but 1. they have the mythos of some of the greatest comic book characters of all time and 2. their writing is usually alot better than Marvel's. Case in point: Civil War, as compared to IC.
I just KNOW I'm going to get flamed and nuked for this, but it needs to be said.
CIVIL WAR IS THE WORST COMIC IDEA IN DECADES. This is the worst event Marvel has come up with since Decimation. It's not even the concept behind Civil War, we all knew that was going to done eventually. IT'S THE TYING IT TO REAL LIFE POLITICS. blowup
I can't stand this idea of tying in comic books to the screwy politics of this country. Comic books are supposed to a refuge from this crap. And they're certainly not supposed to be this badly done. Or what about the crapfest that was 'Onslaught Reborn' ? Damn it, I liked Onslaught. Loeb has ruined him.
I just realized, I'm much more of a DC fan than a marvel fan. Oh well. It's not that I hate Marvel, I like it. I just know they could have done a lot better. Like Annihilation. God damn it, Thanos died. THANOS. He's probably the best character in the cosmic class, and they killed him. That's ballsy. That's good writing. Hell, Annihilus nuked Quasar. Nobody saw that one coming.
Not like Civil War. Spidey coming out as pro-reg, IM turning into a war profiteer and right wing nut, Cap turning on the US govt. , (Actually, that's one of the few things I liked. It shows Cap's spectacular character and idealism.), Zemo disappearing, the complete whoring out of the new powerhouse 'The Sentry', Clor, and Deadpool getting a conscience chair. For that last one, someone's head needs to roll.
So, all in all, I'm pretty much boycotting most of Marvel until this Civil War shit ends.
And yeah, IC was awesome. And JLA still rocks.
Shit, I just went on a rant. Sorry about that. shy Back to the original topic. I looked it up, way back in JLA 8&9, before IC, the Key took over the watchtower. And one of his dream scenarios was Supes acting as a green lantern corp member on a krypton that never exploded.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You know, there is one general consensus that alot of people agree on: Marvel has shit writing. 😛 I'm serious, I've never liked Marvel's writing. It's always so full of itself.DC may be getting outsold by Marvel, but 1. they have the mythos of some of the greatest comic book characters of all time and 2. their writing is usually alot better than Marvel's. Case in point: Civil War, as compared to IC.
I just KNOW I'm going to get flamed and nuked for this, but it needs to be said.
CIVIL WAR IS THE WORST COMIC IDEA IN DECADES. This is the worst event Marvel has come up with since Decimation. It's not even the concept behind Civil War, we all knew that was going to done eventually. IT'S THE TYING IT TO REAL LIFE POLITICS. blowup
I can't stand this idea of tying in comic books to the screwy politics of this country. Comic books are supposed to a refuge from this crap. And they're certainly not supposed to be this badly done. Or what about the crapfest that was 'Onslaught Reborn' ? Damn it, I liked Onslaught. Loeb has ruined him.
I just realized, I'm much more of a DC fan than a marvel fan. Oh well. It's not that I hate Marvel, I like it. I just know they could have done a lot better. Like Annihilation. God damn it, Thanos died. THANOS. He's probably the best character in the cosmic class, and they killed him. That's ballsy. That's good writing. Hell, Annihilus nuked Quasar. Nobody saw that one coming.
Not like Civil War. Spidey coming out as pro-reg, IM turning into a war profiteer and right wing nut, Cap turning on the US govt. , (Actually, that's one of the few things I liked. It shows Cap's spectacular character and idealism.), Zemo disappearing, the complete whoring out of the new powerhouse 'The Sentry', Clor, and Deadpool getting a conscience chair. For that last one, someone's head needs to roll.
So, all in all, I'm pretty much boycotting most of Marvel until this Civil War shit ends.
And yeah, IC was awesome. And JLA still rocks.
Shit, I just went on a rant. Sorry about that. shy Back to the original topic. I looked it up, way back in JLA 8&9, before IC, the Key took over the watchtower. And one of his dream scenarios was Supes acting as a green lantern corp member on a krypton that never exploded.
Worst. Bloody. Rant. Ever.
Originally posted by "V"
Worst. Bloody. Rant. Ever.
really? it might have been a little overzealous, but i thought there were some genuinely worthwhile points...
civil war trying to be too political, i agree with that...
the problem that quality writing (and art too imo) is more the minority in marvel, whereas DC in alot of cases tends to have some pretty good writing in alot of its books...
those parts, i agree with...
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Kiss my ass "v" . 😛 You know I'm right. 😉
No. You are wrong on several points:
1)Civil War is not the worst event in decades.
2)It is not general consensus that marvel has shit writing
3)Politics does not always ruin comics, it adds a level of realism
4)Onslaught has always sucked, Onslaught reborn just added to it
5)JLA doesn't rock, how badly it's selling just proves that
6)Infinite Crisis wasn't even better than Civil War let alone Annihilation
And you boycotting Marvel at the end of Civil War until the end of Civil War is stupid, it's finishing very soon. If you felt this way you would of done it when Civil War was in it's early stages.
Originally posted by pr1983
really? it might have been a little overzealous, but i thought there were some genuinely worthwhile points...civil war trying to be too political, i agree with that...
the problem that quality writing (and art too imo) is more the minority in marvel, whereas DC in alot of cases tends to have some pretty good writing in alot of its books...
those parts, i agree with...
Civil War is about politics, it couldn't be Civil War without the politics behind it. But yes Millar is pushing his views onto the event, I'm sure of that. They could tone it down a bit.
Writing and Art? You can never generalise a thing like that, there are way too many books. But every company has good and bad artists/writers, you can't really help it to be honest.
Originally posted by "V"
Civil War is about politics, it couldn't be Civil War without the politics behind it. But yes Millar is pushing his views onto the event, I'm sure of that. They could tone it down a bit.Writing and Art? You can never generalise a thing like that, there are way too many books. But every company has good and bad artists/writers, you can't really help it to be honest.
its the wrong politics though... it tries to (as others have said) turn it into some civil liberties issue, when it most clearly isnt...
and civil war, imo, is more about the spectacle than anything else... i dont think the writing is anything special to be honest...
i look at the bigger books (x-men, spiderman, avengers), and i think that given that they are meant to be the flagship books, so to speak, the art and writing in alot of them should be much, much better... there are only a few exceptions imo...
Originally posted by pr1983
its the wrong politics though... it tries to (as others have said) turn it into some civil liberties issue, when it most clearly isnt...and civil war, imo, is more about the spectacle than anything else... i dont think the writing is anything special to be honest...
i look at the bigger books (x-men, spiderman, avengers), and i think that given that they are meant to be the flagship books, so to speak, the art and writing in alot of them should be much, much better... there are only a few exceptions imo...
Flagships? forget about that, because this year Marvel hasn't been too good on that admitedly.
But on their lesser titles? Immortal Iron Fist, Captain America, Daredevil, Runaways, Annihilation, Iron Man, Moon Knight, Iredeemable Ant Man, Punisher: War Journal, X Factor, Spiderman Loves Mary Jane etc. they all have great art and writing. That's without mentioning a huge amount of limited series that are pretty awesome aswell.
But it shows, amount sold always isn't quality. I'm not saying Marvel overall quality is higher, I just think DC's flagships are better but Marvel's lesser titles are better.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You know, there is one general consensus that alot of people agree on: Marvel has shit writing. 😛 I'm serious, I've never liked Marvel's writing. It's always so full of itself.DC may be getting outsold by Marvel, but 1. they have the mythos of some of the greatest comic book characters of all time and 2. their writing is usually alot better than Marvel's. Case in point: Civil War, as compared to IC.
I just KNOW I'm going to get flamed and nuked for this, but it needs to be said.
CIVIL WAR IS THE WORST COMIC IDEA IN DECADES. This is the worst event Marvel has come up with since Decimation. It's not even the concept behind Civil War, we all knew that was going to done eventually. IT'S THE TYING IT TO REAL LIFE POLITICS. blowup
I can't stand this idea of tying in comic books to the screwy politics of this country. Comic books are supposed to a refuge from this crap. And they're certainly not supposed to be this badly done. Or what about the crapfest that was 'Onslaught Reborn' ? Damn it, I liked Onslaught. Loeb has ruined him.
I just realized, I'm much more of a DC fan than a marvel fan. Oh well. It's not that I hate Marvel, I like it. I just know they could have done a lot better. Like Annihilation. God damn it, Thanos died. THANOS. He's probably the best character in the cosmic class, and they killed him. That's ballsy. That's good writing. Hell, Annihilus nuked Quasar. Nobody saw that one coming.
Not like Civil War. Spidey coming out as pro-reg, IM turning into a war profiteer and right wing nut, Cap turning on the US govt. , (Actually, that's one of the few things I liked. It shows Cap's spectacular character and idealism.), Zemo disappearing, the complete whoring out of the new powerhouse 'The Sentry', Clor, and Deadpool getting a conscience chair. For that last one, someone's head needs to roll.
So, all in all, I'm pretty much boycotting most of Marvel until this Civil War shit ends.
And yeah, IC was awesome. And JLA still rocks.
Shit, I just went on a rant. Sorry about that. shy Back to the original topic. I looked it up, way back in JLA 8&9, before IC, the Key took over the watchtower. And one of his dream scenarios was Supes acting as a green lantern corp member on a krypton that never exploded.
Well, Civil War was a good idea it was just badly executed and in the case of the main comic, pretty badly written, in theory it made a great story, if they had portrayed both sides equaly it would have been a lot more compelling.
Instead they made the Pro Reg side and Iron Man look like ***holes Annihilation was much better imo.
Otherwise you make some good points, all be it in the form of a huge rant. 😄
EDIT: Incidently this isn't the first time Cap has gone against the goverment, he is a symbol of the people not a goverment lackey and always has been.
Originally posted by "V"
No. You are wrong on several points:1)Civil War is not the worst event in decades.
2)It is not general consensus that marvel has shit writing
3)Politics does not always ruin comics, it adds a level of realism
4)Onslaught has always sucked, Onslaught reborn just added to it
5)JLA doesn't rock, how badly it's selling just proves that
6)Infinite Crisis wasn't even better than Civil War let alone Annihilation
1. I agree...
2. I think the consensus is more that in general, DC is better all round...
3. If done properly, which it hasnt in parts of civil war imo...
4. I thought he was an ok bad guy, just wasnt implemented properly...
5. High or low sales dont always indicate quality...
6. I'm gonna disagree... IC was pretty good imo, it just needed... more... just more in general...
Originally posted by "V"
Flagships? forget about that, because this year Marvel hasn't been too good on that admitedly.
but when was the last time that they were? 😬
But on their lesser titles? Immortal Iron Fist, Captain America, Daredevil, Runaways, Annihilation, Iron Man, Moon Knight, Iredeemable Ant Man, Punisher: War Journal, X Factor, Spiderman Loves Mary Jane etc. they all have great art and writing. That's without mentioning a huge amount of limited series that are pretty awesome aswell.
everything before punisher, good stuff, i agree... have to say i hated the art of punisher, but im not a huge fan either, so i dont know about the wrting... x-factor from what i saw was good, but spiderman loves mary jane? honestly?
daredevil was good writing (although bendis can really get on my nerves sometimes), but some of the art during decalogue was shocking imo...
But it shows, amount sold always isn't quality. I'm not saying Marvel overall quality is higher, I just think DC's flagships are better but Marvel's lesser titles are better.
marvel has some quality so called lesser titles, but thats the difference between them and DC imo... DC puts its best guys on its biggest books, for some insane reason marvel doesn't (bar a couple of titles), and thats always annoyed the hell out of me...
Originally posted by pr1983
but when was the last time that they were? 😬everything before punisher, good stuff, i agree... have to say i hated the art of punisher, but im not a huge fan either, so i dont know about the wrting... x-factor from what i saw was good, but spiderman loves mary jane? honestly?
daredevil was good writing (although bendis can really get on my nerves sometimes), but some of the art during decalogue was shocking imo...
marvel has some quality so called lesser titles, but thats the difference between them and DC imo... DC puts its best guys on its biggest books, for some insane reason marvel doesn't (bar a couple of titles), and thats always annoyed the hell out of me...
Hey, spiderman loves mary jane is a diamond in the rough, I thought it'd suck dude. It's about superhero love, I was suprised when I accidently bought it.
And X Factor is the best X title out there easily, don't be mistaken. Daredevil is pretty awesome, it's coming off one of the best runs in comic history (or atleast most talked about) and is still going strong under brubaker. Meh, Lark's no Maleev but he's still pretty good.
1. I agree...
2. I think the consensus is more that in general, DC is better all round...
Where does this consenus come from? I think it comes down to personal preference, but
3. If done properly, which it hasnt in parts of civil war imo...
In parts, but in other parts the politics has been good. Like in frontline, some of it is utter bollocks (that woman pwning cap and walking out on his speech) and then other bits are good, ie her getting owned by that politician.
4. I thought he was an ok bad guy, just wasnt implemented properly...
He was a good idea, it doesnt change the fact that the story sucked horribly. He always has, had awesome potential though.
5. High or low sales dont always indicate quality...
Doesn't change the fact that it's the flagship team book of the entire DCU, I have read a few of the issues, was pretty "meh" to be honest. JSA any day.
6. I'm gonna disagree... IC was pretty good imo, it just needed... more... just more in general...
IC managed to screw itself over in the last few issues, that's why it is remembered pretty badly. Civil war screwed itself up around the middle and it's been steadily getting better.
Really and truly it all comes down to personal preference in the end.
Originally posted by "V"
Hey, spiderman loves mary jane is a diamond in the rough, I thought it'd suck dude. It's about superhero love, I was suprised when I accidently bought it.
how do you accidentally buy something? 😛
And X Factor is the best X title out there easily, don't be mistaken.
its good, but for me astonishing x-men is top dog...
Daredevil is pretty awesome, it's coming off one of the best runs in comic history (or atleast most talked about) and is still going strong under brubaker.
brubaker is on dd now? its been a year or so since i read any dd, so i wouldnt know...
Where does this consenus come from? I think it comes down to personal preference, but
just from what i've seen online, in parts of this forum and in comic shops... i might be wrong, and its not as if marvel is shit, they have some great writing on some of their books...
In parts, but in other parts the politics has been good. Like in frontline, some of it is utter bollocks (that woman pwning cap and walking out on his speech) and then other bits are good, ie her getting owned by that politician.
i dunno... i honestly believe the less political civil war tries to be (especially in the vein marvel have it atm), the better it'd be...
He was a good idea, it doesnt change the fact that the story sucked horribly. He always has, had awesome potential though.
I'm one of the few people who actually liked the onslaught saga, but more because of the spectacle (and some, imo, great art by kubert) than anything else...
Doesn't change the fact that it's the flagship team book of the entire DCU, I have read a few of the issues, was pretty "meh" to be honest. JSA any day.
The only problem i had with it was that it was maybe a bit slow, but the last couple of issues have come along nicely imo, and i'm looking forward to seeing the league take on grundy and amazo...
if anything, i'd say its the new line-up more than anything that would end up hurting it...
IC managed to screw itself over in the last few issues, that's why it is remembered pretty badly.quote]can you please elaborate on what you mean by that?
[quote]Really and truly it all comes down to personal preference in the end.
definately... if everyone agreed things would be very, very boring...