Originally posted by leonidas
for all your convincing, it really never was shown that phantom has or even could become someone or something of that level. afterall, there is a whole RACE of phantoms. if they could become THAT powerful, well . . . they'd be a LOT bigger threat to the universe
Ok ... but you have to realise that Space Phantom is the only member of his species that actually has this power ... it'd be like saying that all humans have Dr Strange's/Sentry's powers.
My decision:
Well after having read through the battle a couple times over now, I much like Leonidas, have found myself a bit unsettled by a small number of elements in this battle.
First and foremost, neither team really set themselves up to have an extremely compelling argument for how they were going to find the other. While I’m not so sure that the link between the keeper and warlock would imply that he can find him, I’m also not convinced that warlock could come close to finding the T.O.P and successfully get the drop on them. The fact that Thor was basically out in the open at the start of the fight kind of lends itself to the idea that Digi/Scoob’s team will be undoubtedly be more likely to get hit first.
Second, it was HIGHLY suspect that Thor was going to be chucking his hammer based on a CHANCE scenario. Even if he did there’s still problems with that; As Leonidas pointed out and as did others, even though Thor’s hammer did block out Juggernaught’s shield he STILL had his incredible strength and durability, so there’s the question of what exactly it WOULD block for Black Alice? Then there was the problem with the hammer itself. First, I understood that we were dropping everything to light speed.. Perhaps I’m mistaken but that’s how it read to me… Then there’s also the small problem of the fact that the hammer, even IF it COULD speed up to 3xlight it would most likely have to build up momentum to do so… Personally I’ve seen far too many examples of people with reactive abilities and perception far far less impressive than these amped characters capable of reacting to and perceiving the hammer just fine. I have to assume that the principle applies geometrically, and even if it didn’t I don’t see the hammer as THAT big of a problem to overcome.. Another huge problem I had here was the fact that Thor shouldn’t be able to know where the trinity was at anyway so it’s far more likely that the hammer would have to encompass the entire planet. But while the trinity can afford to send someone out to disrupt the hammer, digi/scoob’s team isn’t afforded that luxury.
Which brings us to problem three; the boards… While Scoobs and Digi DID provide proof that Warlock can control the boards.. The scans that were provided didn’t appear to me as though he could control the boards over surfer. 😬
Yes surfer was conscious for the seconds scan but he didn’t exactly appear to be trying to take back control of his board over Adam. To me, the fact that the boards are a part of surfer seems to demonstrate that he probably has more sway over their ability to be used. But how would Adam even know where the board were at if they were micro sized? It just doesn’t add up.
Now all that aside, I think the BIGGEST blow in this finals match was when Darkcrawler and Blair brought down the thunder on what seemed to be one of the most important pillars in Digi and Scoob’s strategy. Namely, the argument against the use of the Uni-power. Now I recently discussed this with Leonidas, and time was, I used to be OBSESSIVE with Captain Universe so I’m well familiar with the advantages that an asset like that could give to a team here, which is in a word IMMENSE, unfortunately for some however that means I’m also well aware of the drawbacks. See the thing is, while the Uni-power can lend itself to a host giving them greater power than heralds and the sort, Darkcrawler’s research was ABSOLUTELY correct in the fact that A.) The power is notoriously ambiguous, and B.) The high end showings that the Uni-power has displayed putting Captain Universe into the league of this tournament is completely dwarfed by the low end power displays. So even IF Space Phantom COULD manifest himself into the Uni-power the idea that he would understand how it worked at optimum levels is EXTREMELY hard to swallow. Another thing is the fact that the Uni-power lends itself to a host to increase their abilities ONLY to the level which is needed in order to succeed in whatever agenda the Uni-power has come up with. If this was an intergalactic battle to save the universe from evil, then their would at least be SOME plausibility that Space Phantom COULD produce the power at optimum levels comparative to what was discussed… However in this fight? Not so much.
And yet he powers of Captain Universe here look damn near irrelevant anyways, thanks to the support of proof that Darkcrawler and Blair brought to the table concerning SP’s inability to use his powers with immortals. I find it rather ridiculous that speculation would be brought up as a counter against those scans when their was nothing else to support the opposite. That said, there’s more evidence that SP couldn’t obtain the Unipower than the other way around and what’s worse is the notion that even if he tried, he’d be off and away to limbo.
Finally, T.O.P. was the first team to utilize their environment and attempt to bring parademons into this fight for their side.
In closing:
While I don’t buy that the trinity would make that superman potion in the given 20 minute prep period, I don’t think that digi/scoob’s team would be able to obtain the Uni power either. But the bottom line is that “Digi’s team is hurt a lot more by the loss of the uni-power than bw’s team is by the loss of the potion.
As it reads to me, the trinity will have a numbers advantage (since SP practically became a nonfactor since the start of the fight, and is in all probability, concerning evidence of course, now in limbo. And a gaggle of paradmenons got dragged into this on behalf of bw‘s team), The stealth advantage (since Thor’s left himself open since the start of the fight), And the powers advantage (since SP was the main focal point of their power up, while most of bow’s power up’s stuck). Not only all this but there’s the little notion that if SP got tossed into limbo Thor would NEED that hammer so the block wouldn’t be that affective anyways.
There’s just a bit too many holes in digi and scoob’s argument and not enough justified proof to patch them up…
Blair Wind and Darkcrawler for the win.
Good job to both teams, I agree with Leo in that I would have liked to have seen more strategies for bringing eachother's character's down rather than discrediting power up and what not but I also agree that it’s matches like these that certify why KMC would wtfpwnerize any other comics forum out there.
cheers
😕
Sun Tzu? Hamlet? Space Phantom! 😱 ... and yet 😕
Let me just start by saying that the prep that both teams laid out where - to put it lightly - a stretch, even for the most active imagination... Hell, most of this thread is pretty out there.
I'm ignoring the whole Parademon thing... some nice creativity but not really viable option.
I can't see that Superman potion being made in the 20 minutes of prep provided. There are extra variables that weren't involved during it's original creation that would need to be considered and I can't see it being created from scratch through matter manipulation. Sure it could be replicated if their was an original copy on hand but to out right create it? That would require a pretty in depth knowledge of chemistry and the exact chemical changes that happened on every level. 20 minutes just isn't enough time.
At first I thought Space Phantom taking control of the Uni-Power was... well... complete bullshit, but admittedly I started coming around. It could be that Space Phantom simple can't posses immortals, or it could be that he simply can't posses Thor (Mjolnir) and he was simply trying to rationalize why... or maybe he just can't posses Asguardians? Is he really qualified to say what the reason is he couldn't posses Thor? That would take extensive research, on his part. But even though I think a pretty compelling case was made in SP favour, I just don't see him taking control of the Uni-Power as an viable option... and even if I factored it into my option, the Uni-Power is all over the damn place and far to ambiguous to judge how it would factor into this fight.
... and was manipulation of the surf boards really a big deal? I think too much time was spent on that fact. Even if Adam couldn't out right wrestle control away, he can certainly exert his will on 'em enough to be a nuisance.
Anyway I don't think either of the times made a very compiling case for why the would win this match, instead they relied on disproving the other teams Prep-grades rather then supporting their own case... but it was certainly entraining. 😎
My Decision: The victor of this bout depends on whether or not you can get behind Thor setting up a magic debuff around the entire planet. Sure the other team could teleport his hammer away but first they would need located it and then teleport an object that is, relatively speaking, the size of a planet compared to the atom sized Superman.... and even if they manage a 'port, that hammer will be in a picosecond. I'm giving Thor the benefit of the doubt in assuming that having learned from previous bouts decides to debuff the battle field, which takes BA out of the equation right of the bat. So as of the starting bell SP and BA are pretty much useless. It would take a hell of a long time for some one the size of an atom to attack anyone... especially on a planet sized battle field. And while they may be "undetectable" extending the range of invisibility with the boards for the initial attack will give them away to the naked eye... That one spot in the area that doesn't reflect/refract any light will be pretty obvious to Adam Warlock. IMO we are looking at Adam Warlock vs The Keeper while All-Star Sups and Thor engage in an donnybrook... and that will result in Warlock and Thor winning.
Digi and Scoob get my vote.
Originally posted by jinzin
would it?theoretically atoms that can travel at the speed of light are STILL traveling at light speed right? 😕
Everything in the microverse moves like it would in the ... macroverse(?)
Characters fly the same speed relative to their size when there .... they may move 1,000 miles almost instantly when there, but they are still only on one microscopic planet and have barely moved at all in relation to the "normal" world.
It's a little weird.
Well, it all comes down to this, hm?
I'd like to say congrats to all participants, and let all four competitors that made it this far that I'm, frankly, amazed.
The power meshing, incredibly creative preparation, and tactics that were used here were...
Astonishing.
I'm impressed. With both teams, really.
That said, I'd have to say that I too take issue with the space phantom becoming the uni-power - especially when it seems he cannot take the form of anything immortal. It seems a bit far fetched, to say the least, and it seemed as if the only counter to BW/DC's attack was speculation.
I also took issue with Warlock's control over a greatly enhanced Surfer's board. The scans lended to the fact that Adam could control a board, but not necessarily force the Surfer out of control. Even if the Surfer had to fight for his control, it seems like it would be a miniscule distraction, considering that (in my opinion), Warlock really hadn't been amped NEARLY as much as Digi/Scoob made him out to be. With the lack of the Phantom, and what not.
Also, the magic-negating hammer seems iffy at best. Especially when it could potentially be teleported away - or take fifteen days to circle the planet. 😬.
Like Leo, the All-Star potion also seemed 'meh,' at best. It seemed much more legitimate, given the powers of the crew, but still uninspired and potentially incorrect. The potion was incredibly complex, and to assume it could be made in twenty minutes? Even with a master matter manipulator? 😬.
Regardless, as Leo and Jinzin pointed out, the loss of All Star powers hurt BW/DC a LOT less than the loss of the Uni-power and hammer for Digi/Scoob.
So, it comes down to a buffed BW/DC team versus Adam Warlock and a hammerless Thor. Things don't look good. 😬.
I'd like to repeat myself - congrats to all that took part in this debate. It was very interesting, very impressive, and very humbling (I couldn't compete at this level, for example).
I applaud you four, and all the competitors that took part in the entire competition. It was entertaining, to say the least.
I'd also like to apologize for the lateness of my vote - as I mentioned, the Dorm internet has been down for the past couple days, so I've been absent. My bad. 😉.
What it all comes down to - and what I'm sure you've probably already deducted; my vote.
I declare the winner of this Tournament....
Bigbran and Darthgoober.
Wait? What?
😒 Shit...well, in that case....I guess I'll give my vote to BW and DC.
Congrats, guys. Very well done.
Even if I found your prodding of the judges out of place/potentially unfair. 😛